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Now is the time to refuse your consent to the proposed new CRT Boat Licence Terms and Conditions


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Just now, TheBiscuits said:

 

What is the "spirit of continuous cruising"?

 

IIRC the requirement for not to have a home mooring was lobbied for by people on on going journeys round the system.  THe pattern of this seemed to be that there was no pattern i.e they might spend 10 days then move for a couple of days stop a short while  ove etc.   Not spent 14 days stationary move a day maybe two and spend another 14 stationary all the while trying to stay a close as possible to a fixed point.

 

To me that is the spirit of CCing a continuous journey pottering along as the spirit moves you not working to keep within striking distance of a fixed point.   Just my opinion other opinions are available.

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I would rather CRT acted in accordance with the current legislation that governs navigation and licensing. There are existing by laws that govern most of the things they are trying to introduce but then enforcing these would require a degree of independent oversight. 

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Dare I ask, what is it we should object to about the new terms and conditions? 

I managed to miss the consultation. Have looked on crt website and got to page 14 of a set of a terms and conditions, but must be missing something. 

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48 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

What is the problem with home moorers following CC rules when cruising? I've never managed to work out why one wouldn't, unless you've got a home mooring specifically so you can hang about somewhere else without shifting, and you can't do that legally anyway.

The theoretical problem is that some of the CC guidelines like range dont actually fit someone with a mooring and an area they regularly cruise nearby and the wording doesn't properly resolve this. Can't imagine that every licence holder who lives on a mooring and cruises at weekends is the target here though...

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51 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

The theoretical problem is that some of the CC guidelines like range dont actually fit someone with a mooring and an area they regularly cruise nearby and the wording doesn't properly resolve this. Can't imagine that every licence holder who lives on a mooring and cruises at weekends is the target here though...

A Judge has already stated that there is no requirement for a boat with a home mooring to comply with the 'continuous movement' (Bona fide) rules, or to even ever use the mooring.

 

 

The judgement in the case of CaRT v Mayers states that repeated journeys between the same two places would be 'bona fide navigation' if the boater had specific reason for making repeated journeys over the same stretch of canal. HHJ Halbert also stated that any requirement by CaRT to use a substantial part of the canal network was not justified by Section 17(3)(c)(ii) of the British Waterways Act 1995 because the requirement to use the boat for bona fide navigation is 'temporal not geographical'.

 

 

6:3 There are clear anomalies in both positions, CRT clearly regard the occupation of moorings by permanently residential boat owners who do not move very much as a significant problem (see paragraphs 3.5 and 3.6 above). However, neither the statutory regime in subsection 17(3) nor the guidelines can deal with this problem. A boat which has a home mooring is not required to be “bona fide” used for navigation throughout the period of the licence, but neither is it required to ever use its home mooring. The act requires that the mooring is available, it does not say it must be used. The guidelines also have this effect. The boat is still subject to the restriction that it must not stay in the same place for more than 14 days but there is nothing whatever to stop it being shuffled between two locations quite close together provided they are far enough apart to constitute different places. If those who are causing the overcrowding at popular spots have home moorings anywhere in the country the present regime cannot control their overuse of the popular spots. Such an owner could cruise to and fro along the Kennet & Avon canal near Bristol and the home mooring could be in Birmingham and totally unused.

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10 hours ago, Midnight said:

I like the new T&Cs this is the wrong battle for all but continuous looters.

 

10 hours ago, Jon johan said:

There is little in them that will effect continuous cruisers. 
 

oops been offline for most of the day so used mobi for that comment
"wrong battle for all but continuous moorers"
Blinkin' speel chucker

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9 hours ago, Tuscan said:

I would rather CRT acted in accordance with the current legislation that governs navigation and licensing. There are existing by laws that govern most of the things they are trying to introduce but then enforcing these would require a degree of independent oversight. 

Absolutely agree. CRT continues the creeping replacement of statute by a contractual agreement. It has abandoned requesting ministerial approval for draconian changes in bye-laws in favour of beefing up what started under BW as a voluntary code of conduct.

 

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The judgement in the Mayers case was, basically, daft. It's a mass of contradictions and I doubt any other judge will follow his interpretation, so it's pointless bringing it up all the time. Stupid statements by judges and lawyers tend to get forgotten, or we'd still not be letting our servants read Lady Chatterley.

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3 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Absolutely agree. CRT continues the creeping replacement of statute by a contractual agreement. It has abandoned requesting ministerial approval for draconian changes in bye-laws in favour of beefing up what started under BW as a voluntary code of conduct.

 

It still is, really. Illegal t&cs are not enforceable. Read them as advice for considerate cruising and all will be well. Take the mickey and you might win in the end, after spending lots of money and probanly losing your boat. There again, of course, you might not win anyway. If you think judgements are logical, reread the Mayers thing above.

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2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The judgement in the Mayers case was, basically, daft. It's a mass of contradictions and I doubt any other judge will follow his interpretation, so it's pointless bringing it up all the time. Stupid statements by judges and lawyers tend to get forgotten, or we'd still not be letting our servants read Lady Chatterley.

Whereby stupid statements by forumites remain on the internet to remind society that there are still many fools and horses.

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21 hours ago, Jon johan said:

 I am of South African origins. Typically South African with being self opinionated and stubborn. 
Jesus, is that racist, who do I report it to?

Maybe not racist but blasphemy laws are even tougher

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8 hours ago, Jon johan said:

Whereby stupid statements by forumites remain on the internet to remind society that there are still many fools and horses.

As is proven by the above statement.

I notice while you enjoy stirring the pot, you still haven't answered my question as to when your licence renewal is, and whether you intend to refuse to sign the T&C declaration.

Presumably  therefore, like many others before you, you want someone else to fight your battles while hypocritically cheering them on from the sidelines?

Not worth trying to discuss with those who only want to argue and abuse. Strange though to come on to a forum, claiming much, much experience, and then deliberately alienate virtually everyone. Must have run out of folk to irritate on his marina, assuming there's any truth in that claim.

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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

As is proven by the above statement.

I notice while you enjoy stirring the pot, you still haven't answered my question as to when your licence renewal is, and whether you intend to refuse to sign the T&C declaration.

Presumably  therefore, like many others before you, you want someone else to fight your battles while hypocritically cheering them on from the sidelines?

Not worth trying to discuss with those who only want to argue and abuse. Strange though to come on to a forum, claiming much, much experience, and then deliberately alienate virtually everyone. Must have run out of folk to irritate on his marina, assuming there's any truth in that claim.

I just received my renewal notice, I don't plan to be the one who stands up and be counted, counting to one is easy

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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

As is proven by the above statement.

I notice while you enjoy stirring the pot, you still haven't answered my question as to when your licence renewal is, and whether you intend to refuse to sign the T&C declaration.

Presumably  therefore, like many others before you, you want someone else to fight your battles while hypocritically cheering them on from the sidelines?

Not worth trying to discuss with those who only want to argue and abuse. Strange though to come on to a forum, claiming much, much experience, and then deliberately alienate virtually everyone. Must have run out of folk to irritate on his marina, assuming there's any truth in that claim.

I knew SDS were doing trick sofas, didn’t realise they were doing them with tillers and a weed hatch. 

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6 minutes ago, Jon johan said:

I knew SDS were doing trick sofas, didn’t realise they were doing them with tillers and a weed hatch. 

Yes fine and dandy ho, ho , ho  but "you intend to refuse to sign the T&C declaration" as Arthur asked?

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