Battery Conundrum

[Chewbacka]

15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Not when it’s dark!

Full moon. ??

[Dr Bob]

Conjunction of the planets?

[Sir Nibble]

It's the charger. Look at the screenshot, it shows not only a loony overvoltage but maximum current. The control has gone tits up and it's put George Ohm in control.

[Sea Dog]

14 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

It's the charger. Look at the screenshot, it shows not only a loony overvoltage but maximum current. The control has gone tits up and it's put George Ohm in control.

Certainly looks that way from the figures, but I'd be surprised to see that a Victron unit would be reporting the over voltage as a fault and still be merrily chucking out the over voltage regardless. Also, if the batteries are full and are really at 18v +, where are all those amps going? I'm inclined to think the readings are wee-wow, but the OPs multimeter readings will cast more light.

[Chewbacka]

4 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Certainly looks that way from the figures, but I'd be surprised to see that a Victron unit would be reporting the over voltage as a fault and still be merrily chucking out the over voltage regardless. Also, if the batteries are full and are really at 18v +, where are all those amps going? I'm inclined to think the readings are wee-wow, but the OPs multimeter readings will cast more light.

Probably the monitor circuit is separate to the charger circuit, and even if monitor is telling the charger to back-off, if the charger is broken it can’t.  As to where is all the current going? It’s going through the battery and turning the acid into gas (hydrogen) and heat, destroying the battery in the process. Hopefully it’s just the monitor that is broke.  

[Slim]

On 04/12/2020 at 18:57, Quattrodave said:

I've had both the blue smart and phoenix chargers both with 3 outputs.  Good chargers, the only thing I was really miffed at was that I expected it to charge 3 batteries or banks independently... but they don't, they'll use the same charge profile for all banks connected and only modulate the amps to each battery or banks.  There were a few words after I installed the £400 phoenix charger and realised that...!

 

If i did it again i would buy 2 blue smart charges so they were truly independent, have fail over and save a load of cash!!!

 

Edit;

If you want your charger easily removable use Anderson Plugs...

Anderson Plugs. So that's what they're called. I found them on line and have several fitted to allow me to power a deck wash pump and hand held spotlight. Never knew their name. Thanks ?

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Slim said:

Anderson Plugs. So that's what they're called. I found them on line and have several fitted to allow me to power a deck wash pump and hand held spotlight. Never knew their name. Thanks ?

I use these for my deck spotlights and accessories

 

[Richard10002]

6 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Certainly looks that way from the figures, but I'd be surprised to see that a Victron unit would be reporting the over voltage as a fault and still be merrily chucking out the over voltage regardless. Also, if the batteries are full and are really at 18v +, where are all those amps going? I'm inclined to think the readings are wee-wow, but the OPs multimeter readings will cast more light.

As a layman, my thoughts are also that the readings are "wee-wow" and, if nothing has failed, or blown up, or similar, things are probably working OK behind the scenes, and the thing that is providing the readings is not connected properly, or something readings related is faulty.

 

If it were me, (and it obviously isn't  ), I would start from scratch with my meter, to see where the high voltage figures might be coming from, (solar monitor is a likely culprit). If all seemed fine, i.e. 12V to 15V Max at the batteries, then similar or a bit less along the route, I'd probably disconnect and connect things up again, paying attention to instructions where appropriate.

 

In my case it would be a bit hit and miss, but my methods usually find a "light bulb moment", where all comes clear  

[Slim]

43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I use these for my deck spotlights and accessories

 

The Anderson sockets are mounted just inside the cabin (one by the cockpit hatch, another by the side hatch and a third by the front doors). I use w/proof sockets for the tunnel light, horn and the bathroom extract fan solar panel.  

[cuthound]

Are the batteries gassing vigorously and warm? There should be a strong smell of acid. All of this would be expected at a charge voltage of over 3 volts per cell.

 

If not then then it may be that the display is showing incorrect information.

[GManAfloat]

On 22/12/2020 at 09:09, Sea Dog said:

Certainly looks that way from the figures, but I'd be surprised to see that a Victron unit would be reporting the over voltage as a fault and still be merrily chucking out the over voltage regardless. Also, if the batteries are full and are really at 18v +, where are all those amps going? I'm inclined to think the readings are wee-wow, but the OPs multimeter readings will cast more light.

So Christmas got in the way and I very lazily out on my charger again and rationalised that ordinarily once switched on you don't bother to keep checking every five minutes, ignorance is bliss after all, and the charger seems today to be behaving itself. No faults showing. Here are the screenshots the first is the starter only and the second is combined. I think there voltages seen okay but I'm no expert. So what do you guys think?

[Tracy D'arth]

Its too high for a float voltage.

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, GManAfloat said:

So Christmas got in the way and I very lazily out on my charger again and rationalised that ordinarily once switched on you don't bother to keep checking every five minutes, ignorance is bliss after all, and the charger seems today to be behaving itself. No faults showing. Here are the screenshots the first is the starter only and the second is combined. I think there voltages seen okay but I'm no expert. So what do you guys think?

 

 

Unless its doing an e qualisation charge which it does not claim to be than for float the display shows about 2 volts too high.

 

Are the batteries warm, gassing and bubbling as @cuthound asked? If not the display is probably telling lies. I think you have been asked before to check with a multimeter on the batteries. As the display is suspect and ahs been almost from the start of this topic we can't move on until we get voltage readings form another meter.

[Alan de Enfield]

If that is the correct voltage and it stays at more than 15v for a couple of hours it is seriously damaging your batteries.

 

Have you got a multimeter ?

What voltage is that showing ?

 

Ignornace is NOT bliss - in this case ignorance can get very expensive.

[GManAfloat]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If that is the correct voltage and it stays at more than 15v for a couple of hours it is seriously damaging your batteries.

 

Have you got a multimeter ?

What voltage is that showing ?

 

Ignornace is NOT bliss - in this case ignorance can get very expensive.

So have checked the voltages and first pic is the leisures second is starter battery. Batteries not hot, gassing and I don't hear any bubbling

Sorry file size to big but second is 13.78

 

[Tony Brooks]

So the charger seem OK but the display seems to be incorrect. Is the display connected to a little pcb mounted on a shunt? I have head of those causing problems.

 

i would expect float t be 13.6 or thereabouts but we don't know if your multimeter is accurate or the state of its batteries.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

In which case there is no problem with your charger but your monitoring system / display is kaput and should be replaced.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[GManAfloat]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

So the charger seem OK but the display seems to be incorrect. Is the display connected to a little pcb mounted on a shunt? I have head of those causing problems.

 

i would expect float t be 13.6 or thereabouts but we don't know if your multimeter is accurate or the state of its batteries.

Brand new voltmeter.

The display is from the app. No other displays, no shunt.

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In which case there is no problem with your charger but your monitoring system / display is kaput and should be replaced.

Problem with the app??

Or are my leisures kaput?

Or there is a bare wire somewhere and I've not managed to find it but think that would cause a much bigger problem?

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, GManAfloat said:

Brand new voltmeter.

The display is from the app. No other displays, no shunt.

Problem with the app??

Or are my leisures kaput?

Or there is a bare wire somewhere and I've not managed to find it but think that would cause a much bigger problem?

So  where is the app getting its information from? There must be a shunt somewhere to measure current even if it is inside the charger. If nothing has corrupted the app then the fault must be in whatever is supplying the date to it.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, GManAfloat said:

Or are my leisures kaput?

 

Voltage alone will not tell you the condition of the battery(s)

 

You can get a 12v battery the size of a match box, you can get a 12v battery the size of a bus.

The voltage is the same, but the 'capacity' will vary.

 

You will note that your batteries will have an Ah rating (probably 100Ah) , this means (in simple terms) that each battery COULD supply 100 amps for one hour, or 1 amp for 100 hours, or anything inbetween.

 

As you use and abuse your batteries you are always 'destroying' them and they are losing their ability to store 'amps', once their capacity gets too low to be usable they need to be replaced,

 

Recently my buggy was getting a bit difficult to start and I was having to charge it every day - the battery was a 48Ah battery, but testing it showed it was down to 23Ah capacity. A new one (60Ah) is on order.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

I think the OP should fit a good quality voltmeter and shunted ammeter so he can forget the app and other such new fanagled stuff.

[Sea Dog]

2 minutes ago, GManAfloat said:

Brand new voltmeter.

The display is from the app. No other displays, no shunt.

Problem with the app??

Or are my leisures kaput?

Or there is a bare wire somewhere and I've not managed to find it but think that would cause a much bigger problem?

Looks to me like your charger is giving spurious readings. Your multimeter is telling you the battery voltage (which is also at the output voltage of the charger) is about where it should be. This clear difference in readings ought to be enough evidence for you to make a warranty claim. The basis is on two things:  firstly, the difference in charger readings from your multimeter readings and, secondly, (should there be any doubt about which reading is correct), the readings from the charger itself are miles away from what they should be. 

 

In my experience, the unit you have is a good one and the app is dependable. There can always be the odd faulty unit. Judge the Victron by the response you get and how well it's replacement serves you. Mine, and those of others here, have worked flawlessly. My readings can be compared with the app for my solar controller, my battery monitor and, if necessary my multimeter, so I can be sure mine is reporting correctly.

[GManAfloat]

Thanks for all the replies but to be honest it's just making my head spin. I'll get on to Victron in the New Year. If we didn't have this lockdown I could get a friend who knows this stuff to come have a look. Just miffed that for once the wife let me get something halfway decent but it's still a problem.

 

Scratch that, I've sent an email to Victron just now @Sea Dog are you happy for me to quote what you've written if I need to?

Edited December 27, 2020 by GManAfloat

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, GManAfloat said:

Thanks for all the replies but to be honest it's just making my head spin. I'll get on to Victron in the New Year. If we didn't have this lockdown I could get a friend who knows this stuff to come have a look. Just miffed that for once the wife let me get something halfway decent but it's still a problem.

 

Scratch that, I've sent an email to Victron just now @Sea Dog are you happy for me to quote what you've written if I need to?

Yes, of course, if you think it helpful. My experience of Victron support has been exemplary. If you can worm your way down into their website there's an online Q&A section for their equipment types and I've had good technical advice there. In fact, when I had difficulty pairing their app on a Sony mobile when Victron's BlueSmart kit first launched, the tech support guy went to the trouble of borrowing a similar phone to replicate and work through the issue - successfully, I may add.

 

I believe though, that UK consumer law means your retailer is your first point of contact, so there's another avenue to explore.

[TheBiscuits]

9 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I believe though, that UK consumer law means your retailer is your first point of contact, so there's another avenue to explore.

 

That's true if it does need refunding or replacing, but he's likely to get better initial technical support from Victron themselves.