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Newbie - Advice on this boat please


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2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Being realistic, you could realistically by a very nice, very liveable narrowboat for 50k and go and have lovely adventures on it.  You will always be able to make modifications and improvements to it.  If you pay 27k for that Springer, you'll end up continually throwing money at it until you have none left for your sailaway and you'll finish up with a knackered old springer which you've spent all your money on.  And that's not even factoring in the cost of keeping a widebeam on hardstanding for years at the same time.  As you've seen the widebeams out there for 50k will also typically have some glaring flaws. 

 

I'd look around for a well kept, well specced narrowboat around 55'-65' long.  There's a lot of choice of those, and if you've got the money ready, you should be able to strike a great deal.

This is true. But I've also read on here recent posts stating that reasonable narrowboats are available around the 25000 pound mark. And don't necessarily want to spend all my money just because it's what I've got. But if I do spend the lot on a narrowboat now that rule out the widebeam dream for a long long time
It's probably been said a thousand times but narrowboats are just a tinsy bit too narrow, ruling nothing out. all advice appreciated. That's why I'm here.

Springer ruled out already.

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

I have to say, Misty Badger is the worst boat name I've ever heard.  Sounds like a terrible pornstar!

Totally agree. It would have to change. No matter what superstitions are involved. I'm not superstitious. I don't walk under ladders but that is common-sense.

Edited by lee_2
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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You Know It makes Sense.png

To me,all negative.

1 It's a Springer.

2 It's been overplated.

3 The engine is raw water cooled,which means canal water is circulating in the engine water jacket.A recipe for corrosion.

4 From the ad,the engine sounds "dodgy".

Worth the money? no,not in my opinion.

 

 

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Just flicking through a 1992 mag and at the time a review showed a brand new Springer 26' with inboard was 12.5k and nicely fitted. That was around the time we got a mid range thicker steel boat well fitted. Parents sold it two years ago but at 60' sound hull and fully functional systems wise but needing  bit of updating/fettling it was less than the 1986 boat in question.

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Not meaning the OP or the boat in question which was a sensible question from someone with a decent budget about a probably overpriced reasonable boat, but at the moment I see so many pitfalls for those people who have never owned a boat, let alone a steel boat, before. Prices have been hiked from every little GRP project to the top end all systems liveaboards.

There are some good/great boats making sales instantly on the money

Then there are boats that fall below that. Not sitting around long at the moment

Then the not completely write offs but boats that a few years ago would be struggling to sell as major project and are now entry level. A lot of these are not at all. A lot of problems will not be cosmetic but hull/engine/other and they become simply money pits. Sadly there seems to be a brisk trade in these at the moment to eager first buyers who forget the costs of cranes/drydocks/hardstanding etc that will be incurred while they fix a boat that leaks top and bottom.

Personally I could live on a little cruiser if I could have a garden yard and workshop on land. Boats like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Creighton-centre-cockpit-River-canal-boat/233758147706?hash=item366d12447a:g:S9UAAOSwQ7xflpxi hold their value all day long because problems don't tend to be terminal.

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11 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

If you want a cheap boat try this one - must be snip with a nearly new engine- I would buy at that price except I have too many already!

56' Narrow Boat - PROJECT BOAT      
£12,000
 
UK Narrow Boats > Traditional For Sale

This one? https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/coles-morton-56-traditional/632723

 

Certainly looks good value for someone.

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4 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Not meaning the OP or the boat in question which was a sensible question from someone with a decent budget about a probably overpriced reasonable boat, but at the moment I see so many pitfalls for those people who have never owned a boat, let alone a steel boat, before. Prices have been hiked from every little GRP project to the top end all systems liveaboards.

There are some good/great boats making sales instantly on the money

Then there are boats that fall below that. Not sitting around long at the moment

Then the not completely write offs but boats that a few years ago would be struggling to sell as major project and are now entry level. A lot of these are not at all. A lot of problems will not be cosmetic but hull/engine/other and they become simply money pits. Sadly there seems to be a brisk trade in these at the moment to eager first buyers who forget the costs of cranes/drydocks/hardstanding etc that will be incurred while they fix a boat that leaks top and bottom.

Personally I could live on a little cruiser if I could have a garden yard and workshop on land. Boats like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Creighton-centre-cockpit-River-canal-boat/233758147706?hash=item366d12447a:g:S9UAAOSwQ7xflpxi hold their value all day long because problems don't tend to be terminal.

Thanks for your input.

I'm taking my time as it does seem to be a bit of a minefield. And I'm potentially going full circle and wondering if the sailaway option might be the best idea after all ? But with say a 56ft ish narrowboat rather than a widebeam? Originally I was considering a smaller widebeam sailaway. Then I learnt that roughly 60 x 12 up is potentially zero rated for VAT so thought it made sense to aim at one of them. But as I've said earlier in the thread the realisation hit me that trying to pilot a boat that size singlehanded, with a supreme lack of experience was almost certainly very silly ? Maybe the same same could be said about a 56 ft narrow boat ? I don't know. But in my mind much less weight = easier. Happy to be told I'm wrong.

Demand drives the price as always I guess.

The other thing that put me off about the sailaways was the thought of potential having to hand over money during the build and the then company going pop. Not a risk I can take so prebuilt or abandoned project is the only way to go I think if I go that route.

Anyway I have time. Will keep trying to soak up information.

I've decided to cancel the visit to the 50 x 10 I was going to tomorrow. Decided who ever fitted it out originally did a poor job, has not maintained the exterior, so has likely not maintained anything else either ?

Narrowboats so narrow but a lot of you seem to cope so what's special about me 😇😂

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23 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

If you want a cheap boat try this one - must be snip with a nearly new engine- I would buy at that price except I have too many already!

56' Narrow Boat - PROJECT BOAT      
£12,000
 
UK Narrow Boats > Traditional For Sale

Does look quite nice inside and out.
"Hull survey done August 2020 - some recommendations advised.

Some gas work is needed doing (re-routing of some pipes) for the BSS certificate. "

I can message about what the recommendations are but regarding the BSS. and showing my complete lack of experience, is it not a catch 22. No BSS no CRT license until fixed so I'd have to remedy it in situ before I could bring it home ?

Edited by lee_2
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1 minute ago, BilgePump said:

When mentioning sailaways, what level were you looking at? I'd say fully lined a minimum.

Originally with the widebeams just battened and spray foamed. Fully lined I worry a bit that I'd have to rip half of it out to do the plumbing and electrics and I'm not convinced it's generally the best finish for the extra spent. And over budget. As always happy to be told where I'm wrong.

With a narrowboat sailaway maybe the budget could cover it ?

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16 minutes ago, lee_2 said:

Some gas work is needed doing (re-routing of some pipes) for the BSS certificate. "

I can message about what the recommendations are but regarding the BSS. and showing my complete lack of experience, is it not a catch 22. No BSS no CRT license until fixed so I'd have to remedy it in situ before I could bring it home ?

I would have thought the boatyard where it is moored could do that - I know they run a hire fleet. You will need a BSS almost anywhere except the tidal Thames in the south.

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2 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

I would have thought the boatyard where it is moored could do that - I know they run a hire fleet. You will need a BSS almost anywhere except the tidal Thames in the south.

Cheers. Well I messaged the owner to find out a bit more 👍

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" Being a few inches wider than than the standard narrowboat makes a noticeable difference"

This in the advert for the Springer, is a worry, if the boat is over 6'11" wide there will be the possibility of problems on narrow canals.  The route discribed is all wide locks, where this would not show up.

All told there are difficulties with this boat.

 

Bod

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20 minutes ago, Bod said:

" Being a few inches wider than than the standard narrowboat makes a noticeable difference"

This in the advert for the Springer, is a worry, if the boat is over 6'11" wide there will be the possibility of problems on narrow canals.  The route discribed is all wide locks, where this would not show up.

All told there are difficulties with this boat.

 

Bod

Thanks. I'd be on the K & A, Thames, and Grand Union oxford  so that wouldn't matter so much but well spotted.

I've decided to pass and regardless after querying the engine issues and mentioning a survey being essential before buying I've not heard from the seller again so I think that speaks volumes.

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19 hours ago, lee_2 said:

Makes sense. Though the listing does say "This could be easily rectified.".

I'll see what they say.

Going to see a different boat tomorrow.

Slightly different league

2003 - 50 x 10 Liverpool boats widebeam

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.com/boat/liverpool-boats-50-widebeam/642632

Pink interior would have to go !

If you can afford to buy at London prices you can afford the rail fare to visit a selection of good boats in and around the middle of England, or where there is a cluster of boats. 

To help us out, give us a clue, are you going to try to constant cruise in London with or without a car, or bike,  or using public transport?

I am assuming you want to liveaboard all year round.

Do you have a mooring? Have you considered this?

Do you know that there are very few marinas or moorings with residential planning permission for residential boats. You will be lucky to find a marina which will 'give you a postcode'

Boats are expensive to run, and need maintenance. Don't think you will be investing your capital.

You will need to generate your own electricity, heat, and find water.

Dispose of your own sewage.

Neither of the boats you have shown would appeal to me, neither of them are 'good boats' imho.

If you have spent a lot of time researching, and come up with these two, I am perplexed.

 

 

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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12 hours ago, Mike Adams said:

If you want a cheap boat try this one - must be snip with a nearly new engine- I would buy at that price except I have too many already!

56' Narrow Boat - PROJECT BOAT      
£12,000
 
UK Narrow Boats > Traditional For Sale

If a boat with so many recent new bits is being offered at such a "bargain" price I'd be very suspicious. The inside looks boring with that anaemic paintwork, but that can be easily cured. But there must be something fundamentally wrong with the boat, otherwise it would surely be on sale at twice the price.

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12 hours ago, BilgePump said:

This one? https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/coles-morton-56-traditional/632723

 

Certainly looks good value for someone.

This one justifies a visit and if it appeals, a full survey, with the potential purchaser in attendance and ready to put down the cash on the day.

If the hull is sound, then get all the other liveaboard necessities sorted.

To me this means:

Two means of heating

Plenty of solar

Plenty of good batteries.

One or two good invertors

A boat which has good electrics

A boat which has a BSC.

Decent water capacity.

No rust, no water ingress.

Evidence of ownership Bill of Sale, plus some recent receipts, otherwise it could be stolen or be owned by someone else, or subject to a debt.

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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45 minutes ago, LadyG said:

If you can afford to buy at London prices you can afford the rail fare to visit a selection of good boats in and around the middle of England, or where there is a cluster of boats. 

To help us out, give us a clue, are you going to try to constant cruise in London with or without a car, or bike,  or using public transport?

I am assuming you want to liveaboard all year round.

Do you have a mooring? Have you considered this?

Do you know that there are very few marinas or moorings with residential planning permission for residential boats. You will be lucky to find a marina which will 'give you a postcode'

Boats are expensive to run, and need maintenance. Don't think you will be investing your capital.

You will need to generate your own electricity, heat, and find water.

Dispose of your own sewage.

Neither of the boats you have shown would appeal to me, neither of them are 'good boats' imho.

If you have spent a lot of time researching, and come up with these two, I am perplexed.

 

 

 

 

I agree neither are good boats. Both now rejected.

 

Not looking for an investment. Looking for somewhere to live that is mine. Stuck in the rent trap.

Based in Newbury. Would continually cruise. Aware that logistically it's not simple but doable.

Colour me perplexed as well. There's a lot to research. And to begin with the recent research was to a large part based around fitting out a sailaway. And licenses and rules etc.

I started to be turned away from that idea and only in the last few days started looking at 2nd hand boats.

Everything seems overpriced if I compare to when I last looked seriously about 3 years ago. 'Project boats that were sub 10,000 now going for near 20,000 etc. But the market is the the market.

Turning back towards the sailaway and fitting it out around me. I can do  'slumming it'. I spent my late teens and most of my twenties living in squats. All though to be fair most of them were very nice for squats. We looked after them.

Open mind. Anything could happen. I'm getting out of this flat soon. Bleeding me dry in the longrun. Might even end up in a van and save more money. We'll see.

Edited by lee_2
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13 minutes ago, Athy said:

If a boat with so many recent new bits is being offered at such a "bargain" price I'd be very suspicious. The inside looks boring with that anaemic paintwork, but that can be easily cured. But there must be something f

Possibly - but remember the boat is at the end of the system,on a non residential mooring probably costing 4K plus a year, looks like someone has spent a shed load of money new engine , windows etc has had survey and only advisories which means to me it is not a basket case. I think it will be soon gone!

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16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

This one justifies a visit and if it appeals, a full survey, with the potential purchaser in attendance and ready to put down the cash on the day.

If the hull is sound, then get all the other liveaboard necessities sorted.

To me this means:

Two means of heating

Plenty of solar

Plenty of good batteries.

One or two good invertors

A boat which has good electrics

A boat which has a BSC.

Decent water capacity.

No rust, no water ingress.

Evidence of ownership Bill of Sale, plus some recent receipts, otherwise it could be stolen or be owned by someone else, or subject to a debt.

 

 

Coles Morton would not figure in my list of desirable boats, I saw them built, to a minimum standard as sponsored hire boats. 

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16 minutes ago, Athy said:

If a boat with so many recent new bits is being offered at such a "bargain" price I'd be very suspicious. The inside looks boring with that anaemic paintwork, but that can be easily cured. But there must be something fundamentally wrong with the boat, otherwise it would surely be on sale at twice the price.

Agreed. Have messaged the owner but no reply as yet. I'm naturally suspicious. When I rented my current flat I paid the small fee with the land registery to confirm the owners. Then insisted they show me photo ID to prove it was them. They didn't mind but said no one had ever done that before, though they check the tenants. Explained for all I know they could just be tenants moving out and pulling a fast one.

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2 hours ago, Bod said:

" Being a few inches wider than than the standard narrowboat makes a noticeable difference"

This in the advert for the Springer, is a worry, if the boat is over 6'11" wide there will be the possibility of problems on narrow canals.  The route discribed is all wide locks, where this would not show up.

All told there are difficulties with this boat.

 

Bod

I thought even Hurleston lock was now wider than that.

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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Coles Morton would not figure in my list of desirable boats, I saw them built, to a minimum standard as sponsored hire boats. 

No doubt, but it's £12K, if it is mechanically sound and the hull is sound, and a survey shows the defects, with cost, then £12K , Is a roof over head, and an engine to permit cc, if it also has a year or two BSC, it's a goer.

Could be probate and executor wants rid, you never know

 

Edited by LadyG
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2 hours ago, Bod said:

" Being a few inches wider than than the standard narrowboat makes a noticeable difference"

This in the advert for the Springer, is a worry, if the boat is over 6'11" wide there will be the possibility of problems on narrow canals.  The route discribed is all wide locks, where this would not show up.

All told there are difficulties with this boat.

 

Bod

Did a Springer "a few inches wider" get built on purpose, or is this a sign that the top is closing in on the bottom and the middle is swelling to accommodate it? :giggles:

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5 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Did a Springer "a few inches wider" get built on purpose, or is this a sign that the top is closing in on the bottom and the middle is swelling to accommodate it? :giggles:

Sam was building over 400 per year, which was around 50% of the boats sold.

 

I have never seen one, but allegedly he did build 'wide' boats to order (as long as he could find some scrap plate steel of the correct size). It has also been suggested that if (say) the steel he had resulted in a 7' beam then it would be used without trimming anyway. 

Not all of Sam's boats were built to the dimensions requested - length wise, it was easier to give someone 'a couple of foot free of charge' than it was to use the time & labour to cut and trim.

 

https://canalrivertrustwaterfront.org.uk/heritage/a-thrifty-beginning/

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