Wheel or Tiller on a widebeam

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

But as you ask wheel steering is less precise so that would not be my personal choice.

 

That'll be why the cross channel ferries all switched from wheel  to tiller steering ...

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That'll be why the cross channel ferries all switched from wheel  to tiller steering ...

I dont think they count given they are often assisted by electronics and bow thrusters.

Edited September 3, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[PD1964]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That'll be why the cross channel ferries all switched from wheel  to tiller steering ...

Maybe he means responsive??

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Well tell them how to use the search function when you dismissively say 'use the search function'.

 

But as you ask wheel steering is less precise so that would not be my personal choice.

You are right it isn't as precise at first, but as long as a rudder indicator is fitted with practice it becomes easy. At the beginning I went down canals zigzag fashion now straight as a die.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, PD1964 said:

Maybe he means responsive??

No I mean less precise.

 

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That'll be why the cross channel ferries all switched from wheel  to tiller steering ...

 

4 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

I dont think they count.

 

3 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Maybe he means responsive??

The exol pride has a joystick now that is difficult 

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

I dont think they count.

 

Ships that cross the busiest shipping lane in the world every couple of hours and moor up in harbours designed for rowing boats on a tight timetable?

 

If that's not your definition of accurate close quarters handling, I'd be fascinated to know what is!

 

Admittedly most of them are on Azipod joysticks now, but that's not the point ...

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

15 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have a similar size boat, it was tiller but I converted it to wheel, tiller is more direct but now after a couple of years wheel works well, I can see down the left hand side easier and on longer journeys it's more comfortable to sit and steer.  I would not go back to tiller now but earlier t would happily thrown the wheel away!

As others have said it will steer for a long time on its own in a straight line

I think that is probably the essence of the advantage of a wheel on a wide beam. I don't have personal experience of steering a wide beam but I've watched a lot of people doing so and with a tiller, unless it has a very long arm they have difficulty seeing down the side of the boat to line the boat up to get into narrower openings. If the wheel is fitted to one side or the other of the boat then at least you can see where one side is and, like a car, judge your direction accordingly.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

You are right it isn't as precise at first, but as long as a rudder indicator is fitted with practice it becomes easy. At the beginning I went down canals zigzag fashion now straight as a die.

Call me 'old fashioned' but Ive steered a good few wheel steered boats over the years and always found the difficulty of not knowing which way the rudder is pointing an issue, given they didn't of course have a rudder indicator.

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

 

 

The exol pride has a joystick now that is difficult 

 

No, just different.  There's no "feel" to it but more screens involved.

 

Any of the PlayStation generation will be quite at home with it ...

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Ships that cross the busiest shipping lane in the world every couple of hours and moor up in harbours designed for rowing boats on a tight timetable?

 

If that's not your definition of accurate close quarters handling, I'd be fascinated to know what is!

 

Admittedly most of them are on Azipod joysticks now, but that's not the point ...

 

Just exactly where did you make the quantum leap from to define my post in that way?

 

Quite unbelievable.

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

No, just different.  There's no "feel" to it but more screens involved.

 

Any of the PlayStation generation will be quite at home with it ...

 

Different! Chuffing hard work I have tried it! 

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

Different! Chuffing hard work I have tried it! 

 

You know what they say about old dogs and new tricks ... 

 

 

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Call me 'old fashioned' but Ive steered a good few wheel steered boats over the years and always found the difficulty of not knowing which way the rudder is pointing an issue, given they didn't of course have a rudder indicator.

And that's why I have a rudder indicator couldn't do it without one, the joystick is the same and no doubt wit practice I would get their, but how many boats would I have sunk!!!!

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Just exactly where did you make the quantum leap from to define my post in that way?

 

Quite unbelievable.

 

You claimed that wheel steering is less precise than tiller.  Until a couple of generations ago, all the cross channel ferries were wheel steering.

 

If you think there is more precision necessary to take a widebeam to the pump out than to dock a RoRo in Dover, then it's not me who's making unbelievable comments.

[peterboat]

11 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I think that is probably the essence of the advantage of a wheel on a wide beam. I don't have personal experience of steering a wide beam but I've watched a lot of people doing so and with a tiller, unless it has a very long arm they have difficulty seeing down the side of the boat to line the boat up to get into narrower openings. If the wheel is fitted to one side or the other of the boat then at least you can see where one side is and, like a car, judge your direction accordingly.

Exactly, I sit in my high chair and its relatively easy to go through narrow gaps  possibly easier than with the tiller. The OP might if it's all they ever steer get used to it quickly 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You claimed that wheel steering is less precise than tiller.  Until a couple of generations ago, all the cross channel ferries were wheel steering.

 

If you think there is more precision necessary to take a widebeam to the pump out than to dock a RoRo in Dover, then it's not me who's making unbelievable comments.

The skippers docking those boats didnt have to ask questions on a boating forum.

 

They were skilled and trained, so in their command they knew how to steer their boats.

 

So as I said 'they dont coun't'.

 

Of course in the context of the discussion and to satisfy your willy waving I should have made that abundantly clear.

 

 

[bizzard]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

Exactly, I sit in my high chair and its relatively easy to go through narrow gaps  possibly easier than with the tiller. The OP might if it's all they ever steer get used to it quickly 

I used to dine in a High chair. We lived in a pre-fab. When I'd had my din din the highchair was passed over the fence to Mrs Harold in the pre fab next door so that daughter Lyne could have her din din sitting in it. It was a wooden one. I'm uncertain who it belonged to, my mum or Mrs Harold. We shared lots of things, even the toilet because they kept getting bunged up. All sorts of things were shared over the fences in those days and gossip.

[TheBiscuits]

14 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Of course in the context of the discussion and to satisfy your willy waving I should have made that abundantly clear.

 

That'll be why you edited your post twice then ....

 

38 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Call me 'old fashioned' but Ive steered a good few wheel steered boats over the years and always found the difficulty of not knowing which way the rudder is pointing an issue, given they didn't of course have a rudder indicator.

 

That's not "old fashioned", that's inexperienced.  There's a different "feel" to it than with a tiller, but like many skills it can be learned.

 

Do you have a wheel position indicator on your car dashboard?  I don't.

 

As I said earlier, kids who don't drive cars pick it up instantly, but adults who drive seem to struggle with it. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That'll be why you edited your post twice then ....

 

 

That's not "old fashioned", that's inexperienced.  There's a different "feel" to it than with a tiller, but like many skills it can be learned.

 

Do you have a wheel position indicator on your car dashboard?  I don't.

 

As I said earlier, kids who don't drive cars pick it up instantly, but adults who drive seem to struggle with it. 

Sometimes one has to edit a post to help the hard of thinking.

 

Cars don't steer the same as boats so you have introduced another irrelevance.

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Cars don't steer the same as boats

 

Yes, I'm aware of that thanks.  I think that's why non-drivers pick it up faster than drivers - they don't expect the steering to react the way it does in a car so they just do what needs doing.  

 

Car drivers who haven't steered boats before have to work out the difference between the input at the wheel and the reaction of the boat compared to the car.

 

 

 

[Rob-M]

I found wheel steering took more time to get used to than a tiller as there is more of a delay in the boat responding with a wheel and therefore a tendency to over steer initially but once you get used to the response time a wheel is fine.

[WotEver]

7 hours ago, peterboat said:

You are right it isn't as precise at first, but as long as a rudder indicator is fitted with practice it becomes easy. At the beginning I went down canals zigzag fashion now straight as a die.

I did that on a mate’s little Norman. I couldn’t keep the thing straight for love nor money. He took over and did a marvellous job. I left him to it and had another beer. 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Call me 'old fashioned' but Ive steered a good few wheel steered boats over the years and always found the difficulty of not knowing which way the rudder is pointing an issue, given they didn't of course have a rudder indicator.

It is not difficult - centre rudder, apply a couple of turns of red insulating tape (other colours available) at the top of the wheel and you know when your rudder is central.

Simply count the turns from stop-to-stop (mine is 5 turns) so you could be a full turn 'out' when you centre the wheel but you'll have the rudder at almost 45 degrees so the boat will still be turning so it'll be pretty obvious the rudder is not centralised.

 

I do have electronic rudder indicators at both helms but a wrap of tape, is KISS !

Edited September 4, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Bee]

If you are having a boat built then tiller is much cheaper, a bit of steelwork and a rudder, job done.  A wheel though can go anywhere, front, back middle. to one side, however it will not be cheap. A tiller in a wheelhouse is not really a good idea, a wheel is. So far as handling is concerned you will get used to either. Very early motor cars sometimes had tiller steering, can't see that making a comeback. Rudder position indicator? superfluous in my opinion, cars don't have them. As soon as you engage a gear you will naturally just start steering.