Naughty Cal Posted August 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, magpie patrick said: If a cleat on a boat or on a lockside can take the weight of the boat dangling then it is not by intentional design - I'll leave boat cleats out of this as that's not what we're talking about. In specifying a lockside bollard then one would expect the forces designed for to include a lateral force such as holding or stopping a heavy boat - this might be as a result of the paddles being open rather than the bollard being used as a brake. It may be that the design that allows for this also takes the weight of a boat dangling from the bollard, it may not I've seen boats hung up with ropes, but I've never seen them come clear out of the water, so the bollard wasn't taking anything like the full weight, and I have seen mooring cleats on the bank come off - indeed I took one off myself when I thought the person on the front deck had untied... In any event, in this case the weakest point was the coping, not the bollard! Oh we were clear of the water in Keadby Lock! Not an experience we are wanting to repeat in a hurry but just one of those things. Our ropes jammed around chains on the lockside bollards, unfortunate that both did the same thing at almost the same time, and as we were right under the lock tower with boats behind us the lockie didn't see what was happening. We quickly hailed him in the VHF and he stopped the lock and came to free our ropes. We landed back in the lock with a bit of a splash, the next option was to cut the ropes. Reading the books that came with our boat the stern and bow cleats are rated at 3.5 tonnes each, the spring cleats in the middle are a lot less at 1 tonne each. Presumably the higher ratings are for towing and being towed but they do mean that in theory just one of them could hold the weight of the boat if hung. Hopefully in this case it will be a quick fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said: Having hung our boat a couple of times, most noticeably in Keadby Lock when the ropes snagged on chains around the bollards on the lock side out of sight of the lockie in his tower, we can say that no damage was caused to the boat or to the lock. May I suggest you need to pay more attention in locks then if you have got so hung up your hull is clear of the water. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scholar Gypsy Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 My third policy covers this ... We will cover your legal liability to compensate other people if someone dies or is injured, or property is lost or damaged as a result of your interest in Scholar Gypsy up to a limit of £5,000,000 in respect of any one accident (which shall be deemed to include a series of accidents occurring in connection with or arising out of any one event) but unlimited in the aggregate. ... but subject to this exclusion ... Wilful misconduct or acts of recklessness by you, or those to whom this policy extends, including but not limited to when under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave123 Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Doesn't sound like the insurance will pay then? At least the damage doesn't look too bad either. And presumably the boat was still floating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickent Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 48 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said: My third policy covers this .. ... but subject to this exclusion ... Wilful misconduct or acts of recklessness by you, or those to whom this policy extends, including but not limited to when under the influence of alcohol or drugs. pretty sure his actions would constitute recklessness, looks like somebody has a big bill incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 55 minutes ago, frangar said: May I suggest you need to pay more attention in locks then if you have got so hung up your hull is clear of the water. I must admit I get nervous when descending in a big lock when you get out of site of your ropes. It seems all too easy for a rope to get caught in a crevice in the lock side or get jammed on the lock side bollard or cleat and if it is one of the locks where a lockie takes your rope, passes it round something and back to you, I always watch that they do it in such a way that the rope can't get jammed. haggis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, haggis said: I must admit I get nervous when descending in a big lock when you get out of site of your ropes. It seems all too easy for a rope to get caught in a crevice in the lock side or get jammed on the lock side bollard or cleat and if it is one of the locks where a lockie takes your rope, passes it round something and back to you, I always watch that they do it in such a way that the rope can't get jammed. haggis I carry an axe for this purpose. It would part the rope in a second and before the boat got hung up. The axe is by the steering thingy when under way. I was taught this by the best in 1973 and its stuck with me. I did use it once when first narrowboating and starting to get hung up in a lock due to a jammed rope, not been needed for 30 years since but always ready. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 38 minutes ago, haggis said: .. It seems all too easy for a rope to get caught in a crevice in the lock side ... I have seen that happen - the rope had to be cut which was hazardous in itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted August 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, frangar said: May I suggest you need to pay more attention in locks then if you have got so hung up your hull is clear of the water. Not a lot we could do about it when the lock is operated by a lock keeper who can't see us from his location and emptying fast! By the time we had hailed him on the VHF and he had stopped the lock we were a good few feet out of the water. Could have been a lot worse had we not had the VHF as we were completely out of his line of sight under the lock tower. 42 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: I carry an axe for this purpose. It would part the rope in a second and before the boat got hung up. The axe is by the steering thingy when under way. I was taught this by the best in 1973 and its stuck with me. I did use it once when first narrowboating and starting to get hung up in a lock due to a jammed rope, not been needed for 30 years since but always ready. We have since always carried a pair of sharp knives onboard, one in the cockpit and the other in the anchor locker so that we can cut the ropes if needs be. You still need to be careful with that though as we have seen a cut rope injure a crews face when their boat hung up in Ocean Lock and they cut the rope and the cut end whipped across their face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 3 hours ago, frangar said: May I suggest you need to pay more attention in locks then if you have got so hung up your hull is clear of the water. Can't say I have experienced a boat being hung up personally but some locks , eg tidal locks ,are not controlled by the boater. A boat was almost trashed in Keadby when the keeper opened the outer gates nearly hitting the bow of a boat . We were packed in like sardines and had nowhere to go until others behind adjusted their position ....... but fortunately the keeper heard our calls to stop......just in time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJ Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 Perhaps the boater in question saw this picture and thought it wasnt a bad idea after all.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scholar Gypsy Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, haggis said: I must admit I get nervous when descending in a big lock when you get out of site of your ropes. It seems all too easy for a rope to get caught in a crevice in the lock side or get jammed on the lock side bollard or cleat and if it is one of the locks where a lockie takes your rope, passes it round something and back to you, I always watch that they do it in such a way that the rope can't get jammed. haggis One of the (many) advantages of steel wire risers. I also prefer using a rope that is fixed to the bollard and then let out or taken in at the boat end. So if the lockie asks for a line, I would pass up a bowline to be dropped over a bollard. That way I stay in control. [NB I know in theory you get a bit more leverage with a double length line, but the friction on the bollard and lock side is such that this effect will not be anywhere near 2:1]. Edited August 11, 2020 by Scholar Gypsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 5 hours ago, magpie patrick said: If a cleat on a boat or on a lockside can take the weight of the boat dangling then it is not by intentional design - I'll leave boat cleats out of this as that's not what we're talking about. In specifying a lockside bollard then one would expect the forces designed for to include a lateral force such as holding or stopping a heavy boat - this might be as a result of the paddles being open rather than the bollard being used as a brake. It may be that the design that allows for this also takes the weight of a boat dangling from the bollard, it may not I've seen boats hung up with ropes, but I've never seen them come clear out of the water, so the bollard wasn't taking anything like the full weight, and I have seen mooring cleats on the bank come off - indeed I took one off myself when I thought the person on the front deck had untied... In any event, in this case the weakest point was the coping, not the bollard! If you go to Gainsborough you will notice a missing cleat, I was tied up when a largish agar caught me, boat went up faster then the pontoon and it ripped the cleat from the pontoon! Right performance getting tied up again 3 hours ago, mrsmelly said: I carry an axe for this purpose. It would part the rope in a second and before the boat got hung up. The axe is by the steering thingy when under way. I was taught this by the best in 1973 and its stuck with me. I did use it once when first narrowboating and starting to get hung up in a lock due to a jammed rope, not been needed for 30 years since but always ready. Same here taught by an ex working boatman they seem to know best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Naughty Cal said: Oh we were clear of the water in Keadby Lock! Not an experience we are wanting to repeat in a hurry but just one of those things. Our ropes jammed around chains on the lockside bollards, unfortunate that both did the same thing at almost the same time, and as we were right under the lock tower with boats behind us the lockie didn't see what was happening. We quickly hailed him in the VHF and he stopped the lock and came to free our ropes. We landed back in the lock with a bit of a splash, the next option was to cut the ropes. Reading the books that came with our boat the stern and bow cleats are rated at 3.5 tonnes each, the spring cleats in the middle are a lot less at 1 tonne each. Presumably the higher ratings are for towing and being towed but they do mean that in theory just one of them could hold the weight of the boat if hung. Hopefully in this case it will be a quick fix. Richard and I have been jammed in a lock on the aire and calder, lock keeper had a few boat to put in so he arranged us Richards boat is 10 foot beam mine 12 foot as the water went down we jammed on the sides and were well clear of the water before he heard our yelling!! other boats close said they were terrified that we would drop and sink them and ourselves! when water went up we floated easily which was a surprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted August 11, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Notice Alert Nottingham & Beeston CanalLocation: Meadow Lane LockStarts At: Lock 7 - Meadow Lane LockEnds At: Lock 7 - Meadow Lane Lock Monday 10 August 2020 until further notice Type: Navigation Closure Reason: Vandalism Update on 11/08/2020: We have been advised that the repair works at Meadow Lane, will need to be carried out by one of our Crane Boats. This is currently on route to site and should be at the location by Thursday Evening, ready for works to commence on Friday morning. Our maintenance team will firstly need to clear out all the stone and debris from the lock, and cut off the twisted escape ladder. There are many large stone blocks below water. They will then be able to carry out a full assessment with our structural engineer on site. Once this assessment is completed, we will know the full extent of the damage caused and be able to plan what repair works are needed and estimate a possible date of completion. We will then update our website on Friday, with our plan of action. We apologise that we can’t be more precise at this time, and appreciate our customers continued patience. Original message: Due to vandals causing damage to the lock wall and ladders, Meadow Lane Lock has had to be temporarily closed off. Our structural Engineer will be attending site today to assess the damage and the works needed to reopen the lock as quickly as possible. Once this assessment has been completed, we will be able to update our website with a time scale of when the repair works will be completed. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause and appreciate our customers patience at this time. You can view this notice and its map online here:https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/18083/meadow-lane-lock You can find all notices at the url below:https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices Please do not reply to the email. It has been automatically generated. To unsubscribe from this service please go to: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/my-trust/notices and uncheck Edited August 11, 2020 by Naughty Cal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said: Update on 11/08/2020: We have been advised that the repair works at Meadow Lane, will need to be carried out by one of our Crane Boats. This is currently on route to site and should be at the location by Thursday Evening, ready for works to commence on Friday morning. Our maintenance team will firstly need to clear out all the stone and debris from the lock, and cut off the twisted escape ladder. There are many large stone blocks below water. They will then be able to carry out a full assessment with our structural engineer on site. Once this assessment is completed, we will know the full extent of the damage caused and be able to plan what repair works are needed and estimate a possible date of completion. We will then update our website on Friday, with our plan of action. We apologise that we can’t be more precise at this time, and appreciate our customers continued patience. I expect they will get on with it as promptly as possible since its a hazard waiting for new of the local drug addicts or criminals to have an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PD1964 Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) If you click on the link to take you to the Stoppage Notice they have now changed the reason/cause from Vandalism to Boat damage. Edited August 11, 2020 by PD1964 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave123 Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) They even had a pre-printed plastic banner ready to put up at the lock saying closed due to vandalism Edited August 12, 2020 by Dave123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted August 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 I think it says Criminal Damage rather then vandalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandering snail Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 On 11/08/2020 at 10:36, mrsmelly said: I carry an axe for this purpose. It would part the rope in a second and before the boat got hung up. The axe is by the steering thingy when under way. I was taught this by the best in 1973 and its stuck with me. I did use it once when first narrowboating and starting to get hung up in a lock due to a jammed rope, not been needed for 30 years since but always ready. We have a small axe front and back easily accessible. Only needed once so far when in a lock in Belgium and we got hung up on an underwater shelf running along the side wall of the chamber. The lockies thought it was hilarious and carried on opening the paddles so out came the axe. They looked more serious when they saw me hacking away at our front rope but no apology. There were times when I wished we did the locks over there! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted August 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 Notice Alert Nottingham & Beeston CanalLocation: Meadow Lane LockStarts At: Lock 7 - Meadow Lane LockEnds At: Lock 7 - Meadow Lane Lock Monday 10 August 2020 until Friday 28 August 2020 Type: Navigation Closure Reason: Boat damage Update on 14/08/2020: The Crane boat arrived on site on Thursday and our maintenance team have been working hard to clear out all the stone and debris from the lock, and cut off the twisted escape ladder. Our Structural Engineer has been on site and carried out a further assessment. Based on this assessment, we estimate the repair works to take approximately two weeks. As we receive more information and progress reports with regards this stoppage, we will update our website accordingly. Update on 11/08/2020: We have been advised that the repair works at Meadow Lane, will need to be carried out by one of our Crane Boats. This is currently on route to site and should be at the location by Thursday Evening, ready for works to commence on Friday morning. Our maintenance team will firstly need to clear out all the stone and debris from the lock, and cut off the twisted escape ladder. There are many large stone blocks below water. They will then be able to carry out a full assessment with our structural engineer on site. Once this assessment is completed, we will know the full extent of the damage caused and be able to plan what repair works are needed and estimate a possible date of completion. We will then update our website on Friday, with our plan of action. We apologise that we can’t be more precise at this time, and appreciate our customers continued patience. Original message: Due to vandals causing damage to the lock wall and ladders, Meadow Lane Lock has had to be temporarily closed off. Our structural Engineer will be attending site today to assess the damage and the works needed to reopen the lock as quickly as possible. Once this assessment has been completed, we will be able to update our website with a time scale of when the repair works will be completed. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause and appreciate our customers patience at this time. You can view this notice and its map online here:https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/18083/meadow-lane-lock You can find all notices at the url below:https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices Please do not reply to the email. It has been automatically generated. To unsubscribe from this service please go to: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/my-trust/notices and uncheck the relevant box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 Not a lot to complain about there . A shame valuable funds are being spent on this but can't fault the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty Cal Posted August 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 We have all fingers and toes crossed that it is a quick a fix as they believe it will be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted August 15, 2020 Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 23 hours ago, Naughty Cal said: We have all fingers and toes crossed that it is a quick a fix as they believe it will be. My mate Alan is doing the same he can't believe anybody would do anything so stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2020 Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 On 14/08/2020 at 16:47, MartynG said: Not a lot to complain about there . A shame valuable funds are being spent on this but can't fault the response. Yes they get some stick on here sometimes but the response to this seems quick and the communication is good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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