Can we cruise again?

[The Welsh Cruiser]

4 hours ago, Ange said:

There's a lot of NHS workers who should have had many more years of life if they hadn't been killed by the virus. It doesn't only kill off the elderly and those who wouldn't expect many more months or years.

The one that touched me most, probably because it's very close to home and my daughter in law was working at Margate hospital until she went on maternity leave just before the virus struck was Aimee O'Rourke. She was 39, no health problems, three young daughters. Those daughters have to live their lives without their mum. That broke my heart - I'm 54 and I still need my mum when I hit a low point. I can't imagine how many times in their lives those girls will wish their mum was with them.

It's a fallacy that the virus if let loose will only kill off folks that had little time left anyway. I still can't believe that someone would be callous enough to even think that, let alone say it.

Internet anonymity allows that though doesn't it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-kent-52151231

Every death is equally tragic, regardless of what the deceased did as a job. Statistics show that NHS workers are no more likely to die from the virus than the general population. Security guards are at the highest risk.

Edited May 14, 2020 by The Welsh Cruiser

[The Welsh Cruiser]

7 hours ago, churchward said:

Although why anyone would choose not to have one is perplexing. 

Some may take the philosophical view that forced state inoculation is a step too far in the balance between individual freedom and state control. Philosophical/ spiritual views that differ from the mainstream are allowed in this country, are often celebrated.  

[LadyG]

11 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

So, you will put on your gloves and open the lock gates, take them off and bag them before getting back on your boat. Move the boat into the lock and put another pair of gloves on, Close the gate and open the paddles at the other end. once equalised open the gates, take your gloves off and bag them, get on the boat and take it out of the lock. Put on another clean pair of gloves and close the gates. Remove and bag gloves  . If or course you need to handle your ropes while in the lock another pair of gloves would be required. Obviously you have the skills to remove and bag these gloves without contaminating yourself.
Maybe a safer and easier way would be a bowl of disinfected water on the roof of the boat and just wash your hands

 

I have work type gloves [B&Q], which can be removed easily, and can be thrown in to a bucket of disinfectant, my idea is to prevent disease getting inside  the boat, a spray of sanitiser can be used on the boat surfaces. It's like my visit to the shops, a right faff making sure everything is wiped clean before it goes in to my basket, and again when they go in to my bags. I only use one pair of gloves on a shopping trip, I put them on when I leave the boat, and discard them on return. I can spray them with the supermarket sanitiser as well.

I anticipate keeping a jug in a bucket of clean water for hand washing, but it is difficult to imagine what disinfectant I could use half a dozen times at locks without the skin on my hands being affected.  we know soap is a good antidote, but that assumes you are washing under running water.  I sometimes use diluted Fairy Liquid [anti-bacteria] in a dispenser,

Dry hands with a paper towel., 

Keep handles and surfaces clean.

My thinking is that the human skin is ideal for picking up dods of virus, and gloves are not.

Edited May 14, 2020 by LadyG

[MoominPapa]

8 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

You suggested a forced vaccination program, with negative consequences for those who don't comply. 

No I didn't. I explicitly said that it should not be compulsory, and suggested a method of mitigating the risk represented by the unvaccinated to the general populace.

 

MP.

 

[doratheexplorer]

17 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

You can do 30+ locks in a day !!!

I once did 20 in one day single handed,but did I ache the following day!

Actually thinking about hand washing,I may use disposable gloves,not the transparent type,but the blue or white ones that you see garage mechanics using.

These I think will be ok to keep on while washing hands,so avoiding chapped,sore hands.

 

When your main cruising ground is Birmingham you're gonna end up with a 20 lock day whichever way you go as soon as you head off a bit further, my choices tend to be:  Down Wolverhampton - 21 locks.  Down Farmer's Bridge etc - 27 locks. Down Delph/Stourbridge - 25 locks (I think?).  Down Lapworth - 25ish locks.  Down Tardebigge - 30 locks. 

 

The trick is to have a reasonably restful day, the day before.  Start early and don't rush.  If I'm doing Tardebigge, I'll often moor below lock 1 so I've only got 29 to do the next day.  I'll set off at around 7.00am and I'll have a proper rest and a cup of tea and a biscuit every 5 locks or so.  5 locks takes about an hour at a slow pace.  So the whole flight involves 6 hours of locking.  Add in about 2 hours of resting and I'll still be moored up at the end of the day by about 3.00pm.  It's not uncommon to find that some help turns up at some point too. 

 

I find it's a tiring thing when I've got back from work at about 5pm and then tackled a 20+ lock flight in the evening.  You'll never see a volocky at that time either.

[mrsmelly]

9 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Every time you open your mouth, you actually confuse things even more. The government have encouraged me to go out all day if I want to, whether that be to exercise, perhaps have a game of golf or tennis, or even park my fat arse on a park bench or a beach, for as long as I like. I think they want me to go home to bed.

 

Sorry I haven't posted all day..... I've been CRUISING!! (Actually, I haven't but I did have a little chuckle earlier  )

I had noticed that you only ever post late evening so I was bang oin the nail this morning when the first twaddle waiting me was your good self ?

[doratheexplorer]

17 hours ago, WotEver said:

Point of order m'lud... isn't it 'lurgy'?

It's lurgy for Spike Milligan fans. 

 

It's lurgee for Radiohead fans.

[Athy]

59 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

 Security guards are at the highest risk.

That's surprising. Why? They appear, most of the time, to strut around looking butch or stand still and loom.

[Higgs]

28 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

No I didn't. I explicitly said that it should not be compulsory, and suggested a method of mitigating the risk represented by the unvaccinated to the general populace.

 

MP.

 

 

But, if you believe that, you can't be in favour of easing the lockdown, until a vaccination programme had ok'd each of us to leave the home. For whatever reason, if someone refuses a vaccine, it is they who would be in danger, not so much the vaccinated. The vaccination probably won't be more than a temporary solution, if we see the virus mutating. So, I would be against ostracising those who fail to take up the vaccine. 

 

By the by, maybe the present attention to hygiene will continue and hand washing might become more common amongst people using toilets. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Higgs

[mrsmelly]

9 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

So.... are we supposed to be Staying at Home, or are we free to go out for as much of the day as we like, as long as we Stay Alert. Your message is very very confused.

Well obviously people without common sense and who will exploit any loopholes will all be out and about now, if the cap fits put it on old boy. Those of us able to make our own decisions without nanny and with common sense know its safer and better for all at present to stay home. But with you record on decision making etc etc. Put it this way,  a second surge which everybody surely expects will not be caused by me. I and all the other small groups that live here have not changed our lockdown procedures whatsoever, but then to us here thats just common sense.

[doratheexplorer]

16 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

People don't have to play golf or tennis, but the recent changes mean that they are quite at liberty to do so.

 

Since you and others seem so intent upon 'commonsense' how about some commonsense Government decisions rather than being led by the wittering classes of the Daily Wail and Sun. When the lockdown is lifted there will be an increase in infections and deaths, I think pretty much everyone is accepting of that. When Spain started to come out of lockdown, their daily infection rate was circa 500-700 (under 1000) and now after about 10 days they are back up to 3000+ so, unless you still believe in the English exceptionalism, we can pretty much expect the same, except we are currently starting from a far higher figure, so after 10 days or so, instead of going up to where the Spanish are at 3000 (still less that where we are now) we could easily rise to 16,000 - 17,000 infections a day if we get the same percentage rise. Do I trust the 'commonsense' Government to then say,"Oh we need to re-impose a lock-down", frankly, no I don't as it would be acknowledgement of lifting the lockdown too soon so we will rattle on with increasing infection/death rates until they have no choice and we will be back to where we started from.

 

Two more weeks lockdown and then monitor what is happening elsewhere and follow the sensible lead would be the commonsense approach, but as you say we don't do commonsense.

Sorry but you're cherry picking daily new infections in Spain.  This is the actual current situation (below).  You'll see that new cases have levelled off not increased as you suggest.  Individual daily figures still fluctuate widely.  The daily death rate in Spain has levelled too.

 

On May 4th they had 1179 new cases.  This was the lowest figure since March 14th.  However, on May 12th they had 1377 new cases which is not substantially different to the best lockdown figure.  The last day that had a 500-700 new cases in a day was March 11th, although like us they were testing fewer people back then, so that would need to be accounted for.  What can be confidently stated is that Spain has their situation under far more control than the UK.

From: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

Edited May 14, 2020 by doratheexplorer

[Wanderer Vagabond]

10 hours ago, peterboat said:

What happens if a vaccine can't be found? I  can't see anyway out of this except by gradually allowing the population to catch the virus.  Germany is experiencing the problem of early lockdown but now having rising cases 

What Germany is experiencing isn't any 'problem' of early lockdown, what they are experiencing is exactly what is expected when any country starts to come out of lockdown, a rise in deaths and infections. With their capacity for testing (on Tuesday they announced their weekly test capacity is 838,000, we can't maintain 700,000) they are in a far better place than we are going to be,

[Ex Brummie]

9 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Nobody cares any more.... not quite sure why people still go on about it.

Dogs and bones come to mind

[Wanderer Vagabond]

8 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Sorry but you're cherry picking daily new infections in Spain.  This is the actual current situation.  You'll see that new cases have levelled off not increased as you suggest.  Individual daily figures still fluctuate widely.  The daily death rate in Spain has levelled too.

From: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

I was quoting from WHO Updates, top one is 1st May, bottom one is 12th May, increased from 518 new cases to 3046.

 

[Mike Todd]

15 hours ago, Loddon said:

 

There may well be a spike in  about two weeks because of the bank holiday just gone so don't expect lockdown to be lifted in two weeks.

 

 

 

Stops the virus being picked up from hard surfaces but you would need to ditch them as after every lock and disinfect your windlass.

 

Since the vector for infection is from your hand/glove to your face (eyes, mouth etc) I have not seen anything to indicate how gloves reduce the risks. Indeed, some analysis suggests the reverse. But it may be a useful placebo.

[Sir Nibble]

9 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Nobody cares any more.... not quite sure why people still go on about it.

I would agree and if gravy boater hadn't raised it there would have been no reason for his point to be answered. There was a question from some fool on the daily briefing a while ago asking if the government was still planning to go through with Brexit. Some folks don't know when to give up and won't let go so "nobody cares any more" is just not accurate. The argument rages on from a tiny few who haven't noticed they've lost.

[Higgs]

13 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Since the vector for infection is from your hand/glove to your face (eyes, mouth etc) I have not seen anything to indicate how gloves reduce the risks. Indeed, some analysis suggests the reverse. But it may be a useful placebo.

 

I think trying to negotiate locks is going to be for the cavalier, if the expected high number of users happens. 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Higgs

[The Welsh Cruiser]

41 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

No I didn't. I explicitly said that it should not be compulsory, and suggested a method of mitigating the risk represented by the unvaccinated to the general populace.

 

MP.

 

OK. Following this logic, would you support those who deny others their organs on death, perhaps due to spiritual belief or a cultural norm, being denied organ transplants, if they were to need them?

30 minutes ago, Athy said:

That's surprising. Why? They appear, most of the time, to strut around looking butch or stand still and loom.

I don't know, I'm not an expert in such things, I'm just regurgitating widely broadcast facts. I know this doesn't fit the agenda of those who would like to believe that NHS workers are at the most risk, but there you go.

[Traveller]

9 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

That seems to say that you CAN use locks, but should be aware that some may not works as well as they should, or at all.

I agree, strange wording in the Crt announcement. Seems that things are very fluid at the moment - saw a release from the fishing gang and overnight fishing is allowed. Apparently Govt guidelines have been changed to reflect this - you can go out and come back when you like (but no staying in second homes, hotels etc). Presumably tents therefore are ok?

[doratheexplorer]

10 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I was quoting from WHO Updates, top one is 1st May, bottom one is 12th May, increased from 518 new cases to 3046.

 

link please.  I've quoted from the Spanish government's own published figures.  In any case, you have clearly cherry picked two specific dates.  The trend is what's important.  What do these WHO figures say about that?

[The Welsh Cruiser]

21 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

What Germany is experiencing isn't any 'problem' of early lockdown, what they are experiencing is exactly what is expected when any country starts to come out of lockdown, a rise in deaths and infections. With their capacity for testing (on Tuesday they announced their weekly test capacity is 838,000, we can't maintain 700,000) they are in a far better place than we are going to be,

Given that Germany has a population of over 83 million while Britain is under 67 million, the testing capability in both countries is broadly similar.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Given that Germany has a population of over 83 million while Britain is under 67 million, the testing capability in both countries is broadly similar.

A lot of the comparitive figures being used in the news are taking no account of population size, especially if it can make us look worse than other countries.

 

The other is population density which is harder to compare I guess.

[churchward]

1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Some may take the philosophical view that forced state inoculation is a step too far in the balance between individual freedom and state control. Philosophical/ spiritual views that differ from the mainstream are allowed in this country, are often celebrated.  

Sure, it is not a comfortable thought to make vaccination compulsory.  It is not comfortable that any of our personal freedoms have been removed during this extraordinary time but they have all the same.  Although I do hope that people remember how they missed these freedoms when it is all over and think how privileged we are in this country. 

 

As I said above you do not need 100% of people to be vaccinated for it to work and keep the virus at bay you just need enough to so that an infected person is more likely to meet another with immunity and so break the chain of infection and keep the create of infection low so there is no epidemic. So, as long as the take up voluntarily is enough there will be no need to for mandatory vaccination.

 

It is also not comfortable that there are people around who do not give a damn about what happens to others.  Time and life is a precious thing even if the time remaining can be counted in weeks or months.  A virus taking away that time must be stopped otherwise our freedoms and civilisation are for nought, to do otherwise is to be no better than ignorant savages.

[WotEver]

48 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

It's lurgy for Spike Milligan fans. 

 

It's lurgee for Radiohead fans.

How about Jimmy Young fans?

 

Or those of Arnold, the dog...

[mrsmelly]

20 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

I would agree and if gravy boater hadn't raised it there would have been no reason for his point to be answered. There was a question from some fool on the daily briefing a while ago asking if the government was still planning to go through with Brexit. Some folks don't know when to give up and won't let go so "nobody cares any more" is just not accurate. The argument rages on from a tiny few who haven't noticed they've lost.

The same muppets will be wanting to extend the so called negotiating period beyond january so we have to put even more billions in to the failing eu economy when our own UK economy is also in the crap