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Gerry underwood

Human waste.

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2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

For those of you that do Facebook here is a long thread from Steve Haywood about it, He probably wrote about it the the canal mag the following month   https://www.facebook.com/steve.haywood.18/posts/1047670135329100

 

This is what he said in 2016

 

I rarely use Facebook to publicise my column in Canal Boat, but I make an exception for the one I've written for the September issue. It's about the Environment Agency and the appalling way in which they're managing the Great Ouse. Envonment Agency? It's more like a Pollution Agency. It allows boats to empty their sea toilets directly into the river which they were doing last week during the heatwave while kids were splashing around in the water, and playing in canoes, and their mums and dads were preparing picnics on the bank. It's completely unacceptable.

Linked in post #23 ...

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32 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I think it covers controlled waters which includes 3miles from the baseline - offshore.

 

 

Again - firing from the hip as I haven't read all of the sections and there may be others that affect are referred to  :

 

(a)relevant territorial waters, that is to say, subject to subsection (4) below, the waters which extend seaward for three miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea adjacent to England and Wales is measured;


 

 

It only affects waters up to 3 miles offshore if the Secretary Of State (subsection 4) has made an order to include them. otherwise the limit is :

 

(c)inland freshwaters, that is to say, the waters of any relevant lake or pond or of so much of any relevant river or watercourse as is above the fresh-water limit;

 


 

I'll read thru it over the next few days, then maybe we can continue to see if it is relevant.

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What a load of Shyte has been written above. (Not the immediate post above but the thread in general)

The Nene and ouse are way cleaner than most canals even with the small amount of sewage discharge from a small numbers of boats.

If you want to get on your high horses about cleaning up waterways, agricultural run off would be the place to start!

 

Edited by Loddon
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19 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2010 repeals and amends large chunks of the Water Resources Act 1991

Interesting :

 

(2) A discharge or an activity that might lead to a discharge is not a “water discharge activity”—

(a)if the discharge is made, or authorised to be made, by or under any prescribed statutory provision; or

(b)if the discharge is of trade effluent or sewage effluent from a vessel.

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14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Interesting :

 

(2) A discharge or an activity that might lead to a discharge is not a “water discharge activity”—

 

(a)if the discharge is made, or authorised to be made, by or under any prescribed statutory provision; or

 

(b)if the discharge is of trade effluent or sewage effluent from a vessel.

Well there's a surprise.

Permission to discharge sewage  from a boat is given.

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26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Interesting :

 

(2) A discharge or an activity that might lead to a discharge is not a “water discharge activity”—

(a)if the discharge is made, or authorised to be made, by or under any prescribed statutory provision; or

(b)if the discharge is of trade effluent or sewage effluent from a vessel.

Which section is that please.

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1 hour ago, Loddon said:

agricultural run off would be the place to start!

Not to mention all those cows on the non-towpath side, relieving themselves in the cut.

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22 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Not to mention all those cows on the non-towpath side, relieving themselves in the cut.

Ah!  Sheffield. ..

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9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Which section is that please.

Schedule 21.

 

There is also this which maybe / could be applied - (we used to have to pay an annual fee to the EA for a discharge licence, but a few years ago they decided it was costing more to administer than it 'collected' and therefore they scrapped it, we discharge directly into a Dyke) :

 

Exempt water discharge activities

73.—(1) In this regulation, “small sewage effluent water discharge activity” means the discharge from a sewage treatment plant of 5 cubic metres per day or less of sewage effluent into inland freshwaters, coastal waters or relevant territorial waters.

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19 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Note

PLA byelaws 49 prohibits discharge of sewage from vessels into the Thames.

 

 

 

Yes - there are many rivers which have dedicated bye-laws.

The Trent is not one of them, The Great Ouse is another.

 

PLA Byelaw 49 came into force on 1 January 2015. The Byelaw prevents the discharge of sewage into the Thames from specified vessels, consistent with the continuing improvement of the Thames environment, particularly with Thames Water's project to stop the discharge of untreated sewage into the river, and brings the Thames into line with a number of other UK harbours and inland waterways.

For the purposes of this byelaw, sewage refers to faeces and urine plus any water associated with them. In some circumstances, sewage from vessels is known as "black water".

The full text of the Port of London Authority Byelaw 49 is reproduced below:

49 (2012). DISCHARGE OF SEWAGE INTO THE THAMES

49.1 The owner of:

  1. a vessel licensed under section 124 of the Act or
  2. a houseboat

must, from 1 January 2015, ensure that no sewage is discharged into the Thames.

49.2 In this byelaw “houseboat” means any vessel (other than a ship registered under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 or any vessel usually used for navigation) which is used primarily as a place of habitation, or as a place for accommodating or receiving persons for the purposes of shelter, recreation, entertainment or refreshment, or as club premises or offices, while it is moored.

 

But it doesn't apply to pleasure boats, or to visiting boats, or to a number of other excluded categories listed in S124. The byelaw has to mention houseboats explicitly as, when they are moored, they don't need a licence. There may be some houseboats that would need a licence if they moved.

 

 

 

 

If the various Acts referred to earlier actually covered sewage discharge from a boat, there wouldn't be any need for additional 'bye-laws'.

 

I have no axe to grind as I can discharge directly, or use the holding tank.

I think it is 'not right' to discharge into the waterway, but that does not make it illegal.

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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1 hour ago, Up-Side-Down said:

 

............ and Milton Keynes!

Concrete evidence

Concrete-Cows-Milton-Keynes.jpg

Mooooving on...... 

 

What about all the fish and bird poo! 

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Getting back to the original question. . .

 

Macerated shit is still shit.

 

It may be an Englishman's inalienable right to spray his excreta anywhere he likes, but for the sake of those of us with delicate sensibilities, if you're on inland waterways, please at the very least(and you can't hold it in 'til you get to the pub), do it in a bucket and dispose of it in a land-based sewage system.

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Has anyone mentioned composting toilets??...pretend you are hip & green while crapping into a bag that gets thrown in the bin & sent to landfill.......

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On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 21:53, TheBiscuits said:

The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2010 repeals and amends large chunks of the Water Resources Act 1991

I have spent the last couple of days reading thru' (and making notes) the above Regulations, however I find that it has now been superseded by the 2016

 

I will now speed-read the 2016 version and see if anything else pops-up as being relevant.

 

Taken at face value it would seem that unless there are any Bye-Laws applicable to each individual waterway then boats can discharge sewage into any Inland Waterway.

(If that is the case then maybe the BSS & C&RT will have to amend their requirements)

 

The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016

Meaning of “water discharge activity”

3.—(1) A “water discharge activity” means any of the following—

(a)the discharge or entry to inland freshwaters, coastal waters or relevant territorial waters of any—

(i)poisonous, noxious or polluting matter,

(ii)waste matter, or

(iii)trade effluent or sewage effluent;

(b)the discharge from land through a pipe into the sea outside the seaward limits of relevant territorial waters of any trade effluent or sewage effluent;

(c)the removal from any part of the bottom, channel or bed of any inland freshwaters of a deposit accumulated by reason of any dam, weir or sluice holding back the waters, by causing it to be carried away in suspension in the waters, unless the activity is carried on in the exercise of a power conferred by or under any enactment relating to land drainage, flood prevention or navigation;

(d)the cutting or uprooting of a substantial amount of vegetation in any inland freshwaters or so near to any such waters that it falls into them, where it is not reasonable to take steps to remove the vegetation from these waters;

(e)an activity in respect of which a notice under paragraph 4 or 5 has been served and has taken effect.

(2) A discharge or an activity that might lead to a discharge is not a “water discharge activity”—

(a)if the discharge is made, or authorised to be made, by or under any prescribed statutory provision, or

(b)if the discharge is of trade effluent or sewage effluent from a vessel.

(3) In determining whether a discharge or an activity is a water discharge activity, no account must be taken of any radioactivity possessed by any substance or article or by any part of any premises.

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It is interesting that the removal and manual disassembly of Lock gates is listed in The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016 and is limited to the destruction of 100 tonnes. (I presume per annum)

 

Also of interest is :

 

 

Deposit of waste from dredging of inland waters (D1)

1.—(1) The deposit of relevant waste arising from the dredging of inland waters and associated screening and dewatering.

(2) The table specifying relevant waste for the purposes of this paragraph is set out below.

Codes Waste types
170506 Dredging spoil other than those mentioned in 170505

(3) For the purposes of this paragraph, the specific conditions are that—

(a)the total quantity of waste deposited or treated over any 12-month period does not exceed 50 cubic metres for each metre of land on which the waste is deposited, and

(b)the waste is deposited at the closest possible point to where the waste was produced on—

(i)the bank of the inland waters from which the waste was produced, or

(ii)such width of land adjoining the inland waters so as to enable the waste to be removed and deposited by mechanical means in one operation.

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I remember as a kid having days out with a school friend who's parents had a very nice cruiser. We would be out on the Ouse from Bedford or St Neots, His dad's first ever advice about falling in was 'keep your mouth shut, we pump our toilets into the river' :)

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On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 20:46, MartynG said:

The water resources act 1991.

 

This Act is now almost unreadable, there has been so much repealed and 'still out for amendment' that it is all but useless.

The section relevant would be 'discharges' but this has been removed since April 2010 and is still showing as awaiting amendments.

 

I am led to believe that it has in fact been replaced by The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016 which I have quoted in an above post.

 

 

Screenshot (10).png

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Finally got to the bottom of it :

Environmental Permitting Regulations

The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2010, (EPR 2010) SI 2010/675 came into force on 6 April 2010. EPR 2010 replaced the provisions of WRA 1991 that dealt with discharge consents and water pollution offences.

On 1 January 2017, EPR 2010 was consolidated and replaced by the Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016 (EPR 2016), SI 2016/1154. EPR 2016 now contain the permitting and water pollution provisions. See Practice Notes:

This Practice Note sets out the regulatory regime for water discharge activities (formerly water discharge consents) under the Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016, SI 2016/1154 (EPR), including the procedure for obtaining a permit and the criminal and civil offences for water pollution. The Practice Note also looks at the types of water discharge activities that require an environmental permit (EP) in England and Wales and what may be exempt and considers civil liability and sanctions, such as anti-pollution works notices, enforcement and suspension notices and enforcement undertakings. It was updated in partnership with Craig Burman at Schofield Sweeney. This Practice Note also links to related Brexit content.

 

It would therefore appear, to me, that the current situation regarding sewage disposal from a vessel is not forbidden (unless by local Byre-Law).

 

If you intend to discharge then it would be worthwhile getting legal opinion as relying on 'some bloke on the internet' is not good practice.

 

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

(2) A discharge or an activity that might lead to a discharge is not a “water discharge activity”—

(a)if the discharge is made, or authorised to be made, by or under any prescribed statutory provision, or

(b)if the discharge is of trade effluent or sewage effluent from a vessel.

 

 

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