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Welcome to the forum. I know who you are 😀. You will get a lot of advice here but only some of it will be based on real boaty wisdom. Its a sort of game where you have to decide who to believe.😀

You could charge people a pony each way. @rusty69

And the boatyard has ripped you off as a result. I think it is in your best interest to move on to another boatyard as soon as possible, for a fresh start on the work that remains. You now have an overplated blacked hull. Do you have the engine in and working? If so you can move on. You have working gas cooking and stove heating. You can manage with water in containers if necessary. And a porta potti type toilet. Likewise electricity isn't absolutely essential except for starting the engine. If the batteries have not been used for years they will be useless. So as a minimum get a new starter battery and check it is being charged by the engine alternator and by the solar. Disconnect the leisure batteries. Then you should be able to move the boat to somewhere nearer home, even if it does feel a bit like camping on board.

The funds you speak of are the ones which used to come from the tax payer. You know, all those members of the non boating public who also enjoyed, and still enjoy what the waterways offer. In my opinion, the tax payer should still partially fund maintenance of the system. Particularly as C&RT have placed the wishes of the general public over boaters in recent years. In a way the public are contributing via the 'charity' revenue initiatives, but shouldn't our national heritage still be partially supported through taxation? (rather than pick on fat boats and those without a home mooring)

CRT mention that the towpath is too narrow for horses to be used safely. There must be plenty of benefit claimants in the area, though? My suggestion is to make Universal Credit recipients perform the role of human tugs (three or four to a rope) for free haulage along the section of the canal in question. One day working on the tug team absolves you from needing to show a week of applying for jobs when you attend your JobCentre. The team spirit of hauling boats on a rope would be an excellent motivation for the jobless. To make it more fun, CRT would offer a free blue t-shirt to all participants with their logo and a choice of Happy to pull you off, Here's one I tugged earlier or Waterway to earn a living slogans. Repeat attendees would earn badges to pin on their shirts, with six levels of... etc. etc.

I now see you are planning to live aboard. It's worth having a good look at the many posts on the forum about buying a boat to live on. Many pros and cons but not for me to say as I don't liveaboard and wouldn't want to. Some people do want to, others do it out of necessity. I expect you'll be getting many replies on the subject before too much longer. Some of them will be saying things you don't want to hear. At that point some people get the hump and storm off never to be heard from again. Try to resist that, there is a lot to be gained by sticking around and hearing what peop!e with far more experience than me have to say.

3 options for moving the boat to a new area... 1. DIY 2. Hire a professional (insured) boatmover to do it for you. 3. Have it craned out and taken by road. In terms of "pilot" licenses etc, there are no requirements. Thousands of people hire narrowboats with no previous experience and get perhaps an hours tuition a d then they're on their own. Have you tried hiring? It's a good idea to do so before buying anyway. A weekend or midweek hire out of season is probably money well spent.

I keep chickens (on land not boat) one day swmbo arrived home not with 4 new pullets as instructed but 'even better' 4 ducklings.... The man said there no trouble she said... in fairness they were similar to the chickens .....but they are dirty bastards.... think projectile duck shit.... all up the sides of the coop/house..... They loved ripping up my lawn and scratching every plant out. Some people love duck eggs personally I hated them, they are fine in cakes but no good boiled scrambled or fried for me. One night they all disappeared must have been a fox.... So get a chicken don't go anywhere near dirty bastard ducks....

Restoration is sexy - volunteers aplenty, fund raising, grants and all the rest. Brass bands and fireworks for every mile. Then, hand it over to the CRT, hardly any boats visit the wonderful restored side arm to Crumpton Nowhere and ..... routine maintenance, managing all the whinging of various users, trying to prise money out of government and others is absolutely necessary, expensive and distinctly unsexy. CRT should refuse to connect or take over any new restorations unless an adequate, perpetual maintenance fund has also been established.

Very true. I've never met anyone, leisure or CCer, who spoke in derogatory terms of other boater's choices. I think the crunch will come hardest for the non-liveaboard CCers as they've got houses to run as well as boats to pretend to cruise on. Those are the ones who will either get moorings or sell up.

Out in the real world away from here (the forum) there’s a much more mellow experience. I think anyone spending most of their time boating would agree? I’ve not had a face to face experience of any resentment from other ‘types’ of boaters. The odd issues at locks but that’s a different story. Generally we swop experiences and lots wish they were out all year too. Undoubtably there are some who perceive, relish and try to create a divide but I personally don’t feel it’s like that out there on the cut.

This is actually a perfect example of why a wiki would be a good thing. Wikis are supposed to present facts and eliminate opinion. There would be one page for each toilet type and all the *facts* about each presented - nothing preferred over the other, people can read all the pages in question and make their own decisions. The same thing happens now (I imagine) reading through the forum but the information is extremely diluted and full of snarkiness, arguing, and opinion-based language.

So I bought a canal boat. A 60foot, 1994, trad' narrow boat. I'd not bought a boat before. The brochure gave the appearance that the boat was in great shape. The survey I had done revealed a somewhat grittier picture, but I'd fallen in love and, on the strength of advice from the boat broker that the work that needed doing would cost me around £13-16k, I negotiated a stiff price reduction and went ahead with the purchase. There was some serious mis-selling involved, which I will be looking to take action over. I took the boat to a nearby boatyard and was given a series of very reasonable figures for the various bits of work that needed doing that were beyond my skillset. However, things have become nightmarish. They've already had £18,000 off me (because the hull needed completely replating instead of patching and apparently the steel cost £17k.) Everything they look at costs way more than originally stated or wasn't mentioned but "needs doing". New engine mounts. New propellor. I was told that a gasket set would cost a few hundred quid. That's now changed to £1800. I asked for a complete engine service and was told £380. THat's changed to "thousands if we go ahead with it, or put it back unserviced and take your chances". I'm looking at a final bill of around £30k+ for what amounts to hull replated with a single sheet of steel, and blacked, new anodes, engine mounts, a new propellor, the engine removed, cleaned, oil sump gasket replaced and engine replaced, a hatch into the diesel tank because "there's no other way of cleaning it out", and water tank cleaned and painted, and that's it. This makes the final cost of the boat north of £60k and the toilet still doesn't work and the inverter also doesn't work, despite both showing up as working in the survey I had done. I'm on the verge of nervous collapse, if not actual bankruptcy over this. Do these costs seem unusually high to anyone? (They do to me.) (This is not in London, or anywhere near London.) I told them there was a strict budget involved but that has been ignored. I stand to lose somewhere around £50k on this as it stands. I have no idea what to do or where to turn.

You're gonna have to get off and do a lock eventually!

Boating life is never simple....

Only because they are not actually running the business properly - if they were to actually maintain the assets (even to the 'steady state' when they inherited them) they would have greater expenditure than income.

No, What are you sayin? Sorry, OP, just ignore us, we are a pair of fools. Well, he is. Ignore everything he says, and you'll be fine.

I wonder whether some people who speak in derogatory terms about boaters choices don't get the opportunity to go out boating themselves enough. I know I'll miss it when I get too old to manage the boat but I'd like to think I could still play a positive part in keeping our wonderful heritage for our future generations. It's refreshing to see how other canal based charities can renovate canals on low budget, fueled by enthusiasm. Yet, C&RT with their massive income struggle to maintain what we already have!

I thought it was a scale model of the now closed Rugby Radio Station at Hillmorton.

Thank you Goliath, if our Bows cross in the future then alcohol will be in order 🍺

ITS NOT A VOTE

The UK waterways are one of the last microcosms of a world everyone would like to live in. One where everyone waves at eachother and tries to get on. It would be a shame to see it disappear due to a few p takers and our obsession with 'progress' and 'control'.

The majority of boats have a home mooring and the license fee increase will be 10% or so - many, I believe, will just grumble but swallow it and consider it's still good value (except of course those of us from Yorkshire 😆). This is the group where numbers may reduce in response to a higher fee, but as mentioned these boats will be resold, some to CCers. Of the 20% of boats without a home mooring generally the owners live aboard so won't really have much option (other than to become unlicensed and risk enforcement). Some may opt for a mooring most won't. I suspect C&RT see this group as a cash cow rather than trying to use the price hike to encourage CMers to take a mooring.

I've been on Linux forums on and off for over 20 years. But it's been a while since I was this much of a noob.

One can only agree - BW being a Government 'department' had 'virtually unlimited funds' whilst C&RT have higher expenditure than income and if they were a business would be declared bankrupt. They need more money than BW ever did. Wake up and smell the Coffee !

I use the term "CCer", but I'm not obsessed with it, and I don't think of it as a negative term or an insult. And I certainly don't blame CCers for problems for the condition of the canals. And much as I don't think other boaters are to blame for the lack of maintenance and investment in the canals, I don't think CRT can be blamed for the long term underfunding of the canals. Yes we can debate individual policies and decisions, but ultimately they don't have enough money so they need to raise more. Increasing the license fees is an obvious way to get more money, and looking at the way those fees are calculated makes sense. The principal of taking account of the boats use has also been established with business licences, why shouldn't boats that use the system more pay more (eg hire boats). I know there will be winners and losers from any change, and no system will be perfect. You say we should "use it or lose it" we should also realise the system needs financial support, and engage with CRT in trying to make that happen.

Whilst I largely agree with the sentiment of what you are saying, it is important also to recognise that 'leaving it to CaRT to judge' whether there are reasonable circumstances for a boat not moving (which is actually the law as it stands) has complications when it comes to the point that CaRT decide that there are no such circumstances. Enforcement is complex, difficult and, inevitably, expensive. It is also traumatic for the boater (and sometimes those around them) even if they know that they are in the 'wrong'. Perhaps the hardest cases are those where CaRT decide that there is insufficient justification but also recognise the factors which led the boater into the situation and from which there is no easy way out. It may come as an unwelcome surprise to those who want to reduce the CC population that a large proportion of them do support themselves by working, at least as much as others not on a boat, and are proud - yes, proud - that they can keep a job. Often those jobs are those that many others are not prepared to undertake. Of course, the canals, and CaRT in particular, are not a housing authority and are not responsible for finding someone a home, but please do recognise that resolving this problem is, for the individual, an expensive move that is beyond their means without risking falling into state dependency. A problem which seems to me to be growing is that selling or renting out a boat is effectively unregulated and boaters can be conned into moving onto a boat which they discover only too late is not a safe place to be, even sinking. What would you do if, having put all of your savings, and even borrowings, into a boat that is supposed to be BSSC compliant, you then discover that it cannot pass a renewed examination and hence you cannot insure or licence it? Yes, each case is individual, but there are no simple and generic solutions (like in the days when you could expect a local housing authority to house homeless people) and people should be more careful when making such a decision, but it is too easy to be critical, not having faced that crisis in reality. Perhaps one of the helpful things that cold be done is to prevent newspapers and other media (including social media) from promoting the idea that a boat is a cheap place to live. Those who make a decision to move on board only discover the hidden costs, and downsides, once it is too late to turn back. A canal boat IS NOT a cheap alternative to a more conventional home, even if you have see the state of many less expensive flats to rent on land. The unwelcome message for all of us is that a decent home is fast becoming out of reach for a significant part of the community and of course I am not implying that a boat on a canal can never be a decent home. For many it is but equally for many it is not.

If only 10% of boaters claim to CC, I doubt whether even a huge increase in their fees will bring much extra income to CRT, though what it might well do is persuade the pseudo-CCers to get a mooring (should there be any available in their area). That's a bit like penalising two-bedroom households for having a spare room when there are no one bed flats available - pointless without providing the required facilities. If CRT did provide the moorings it might make sense but is probably too much to hope for.

I did pick bog choice as a slightly ridiculous example. Let's be honest cassette is the only real choice