Help/Guidance stripped boat starting from scratch for residential liveaboard

[georgeedwards]

HI there,

 

i'm new to boating, and considering a purchase of a completely stripped back empty boat. It has walls, windows an engine and gas hookup. But nothing for living purposes.

 

It is a 36' springer.

 

I would like to install a shower, kitchen area, wood burner and toilet on board. Along with all the thing that this requires, such as a boiler, pipes, pumps etc. the basics for a residential liveaborad.

 

I am looking for any tips or guidance on a job like this from those of you who have expereince. So that i can get an idea as to what i am letting myself into.

 

key questions are:

 

On a tight budget, how much i am looking to spend?

All things aside such as personal touches and detail quality, how long will it take to install all the equipment?

Anything else that I am overlooking that should be considered before taking the plunge and buying the boat?

 

Thanks for your Help!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

 

I am looking for any tips or guidance on a job like this from those of you who have expereince. So that i can get an idea as to what i am letting myself into.

 

key questions are:

 

On a tight budget, how much i am looking to spend?

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome to the forum George.

 

Being brutal, unless the owner of this boat is paying you to take ownership, you'll be better off financially if you spend your 'tight budget' on an old but complete Springer.

 

Cost of the materials to install everything on your list, plus the equally long list of expenses you'll need pay out but haven't thought of yet, probably runs to about £15k, and there are plenty of perfectly good, complete, 36ft Springers out there for less than this.

 

Never mind the time and effort of doing the refit.

 

On the other hand if you want a project and you have the time to spend on it, you'll end up with a boat with an all-new interior that you know from end to end, and you'll be able to drip-feed the money into the project over the months or year it might take.

 

But ask yourself, why has the current owner abandoned the task. Set aside the plausible-sounding excuse he's given you, and look for the real reason. I suggest it is because it is that the cost of the materials exceeds the likely value of the boat once finished, and I bet he has used his budget to just buy another (finished) boat!

 

MtB

[bottle]

Welcome to the forum.

 

On a tight budget, how much i am looking to spend?

 

At least twice the amount you have.

Really it will depend on how luxurious you want to make it.

 

All things aside such as personal touches and detail quality, how long will it take to install all the equipment?

 

At least twice a long as you think.

Really depends on how long you can work at it, weekends, nights, your skill levels

 

Anything else that I am overlooking that should be considered before taking the plunge and buying the boat?

 

Yes, everything. we do not know your experience etc. Do you know all the regulations you have to comply with for example.

[blackrose]

How much is the boat costing you? A stripped out Springer probably isn't worth very much at all.

[John V]

Everything that MTB has said plus it will take three times as long as you expect and cost three times as much as you expect

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya, & Welcome to the forum.

 

So,,,,Are you STILL considering buying a stripped out Springer ?.

[junior]

And because you love the boat, have fallen in love with the lifestyle and the idea of living on a boat, you'll think all the above is just a load of rubbish.

 

It is not.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Ok, lets try and be a bit more helpful,,

Lets assume

You have been given the boat Free

You have 3 months storage/mooring Free

You have Taken 3 months off work, & got enough money to support yourself & meet any financial responsibilitys for the duration of the fit out, put to one side.

You 'Should' get a lovely comfortable fit out completed (or near completed) for 'Living Aboard' for around the £12-15k mark. If you do it yourself.

But am happy to be corrected by others !.

 

BTW

There was a 26ft Springer (fitted out I believe) recently on the For Sale and Wanted Board for around the £9K mark !,

Edited June 18, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[MtB]

The thing is, us blokes often cherish a dream of getting an old boat and doing it up to live on. By pointing out the reality we are pouring cold water on the dream.

 

This is why people pitching up here with questions like this sometimes decide the answers are the load of rubbish Junior mentions.

 

It will be a great project for someone with deep pockets. It's the 'tight budget' that will be the killer. If the OP buys (or is given) this boat he is likely to spend years on the project mainly due to lack of funds not lack of enthusiasm.

 

MtB

[lexicon]

Right where to start.

firstly i have done exactly what you suggest. But stripped the boat first.

 

my opinions are as follows.

1) unless you can do almost all the work yourself and are good with tools and have all the tools already don't. Even start!

2) my signature explains the relation of cost and time of a fit.

3) don't try to live aboard while doing it.

4) tight budget and a decent fit out and good boat equipment don't mix.

 

have a look at my build blog for some idea.

its in boat building and maintenance

[Alan de Enfield]

Before even thinking about a fit-out, what condition is the Hull in (thickness of metal) some Springers were built with only 3mm thick to start with and some 6mm thick, after 30 years how much metal is left ? A well looked after, regularly blacked and not kept in a marina with stray electrical leakage may still have a good hull - but - is yours ?

 

Is the engine a 'go-er' does it need major internal work ?

 

If the hull weighs 4 or 5 tons its scrap value (and thats all its worth at the moment) is about £500.

 

As others have said you'll get a completed, habitable boat for £10-£12000, you'll spend more than that fitting out a boat.

 

You will immediately need a licence (if you are putting it on the water) £800 (per year), and C&RT byelaws say you cannot fit a boat out on the side of the canal (some take the risk and do it, but whats your fall-back if C&RT insist you move it ?)

 

Would you like to perhaps define your 'limited budget' - some folks limited budget is much higher than others.

PS - not come across the term "Gas Hook-up' before, what is it ?

[Arthur Marshall]

I refitted my forty footer (23 foot cabin) about twenty years ago after rebottoming and it cost about seven grand then. Even things like the vast number of screws you need cost a fortune! If you can find a copy of the "Narrowboat Builders Book" it's worth a look - pretty old now but still a lot of good ideas in it.

[koukouvagia]

Welcome to the forum.

I've done five fit outs and each one took less time but cost more than the previous one. I reckon Mike has the sum about right.

The last boat - admittedly a bit longer than the one you're contemplating - took about five months working three days a week.

Don't forget you'll need to buy some decent tools, if you don't already have them.

One other rather negative remark. My first fitout was pretty dire and very amateurish.

[dor]

It costs just as much to fit out a 30 year old hull with engine as a new sailaway. The latter, if fitted out to a decent standard, will be worth about what you have spent on the sailaway and fitout. It could even be worth more if fitted out to a professional standard. The Springer will still be worth what 30 year old Springers are worth, i.e. as already pointed out, probably more than you spend on the fitout.

 

You also need to know a lot about regulations over gas, electrics, ventilation etc. As you are new to boating there is a lot that you will need to read up and understand to ensure your boat is safe and legal.

[RLWP]

It costs just as much to fit out a 30 year old hull with engine as a new sailaway.

 

Probably more as the Springer won't have been foam sprayed and will need new flooring

 

Richard

[adam the wanderer]

HI there,

 

i'm new to boating, and considering a purchase of a completely stripped back empty boat. It has walls, windows an engine and gas hookup. But nothing for living purposes.

 

It is a 36' springer.

 

I would like to install a shower, kitchen area, wood burner and toilet on board. Along with all the thing that this requires, such as a boiler, pipes, pumps etc. the basics for a residential liveaborad.

 

I am looking for any tips or guidance on a job like this from those of you who have expereince. So that i can get an idea as to what i am letting myself into.

 

key questions are:

 

On a tight budget, how much i am looking to spend?

All things aside such as personal touches and detail quality, how long will it take to install all the equipment?

Anything else that I am overlooking that should be considered before taking the plunge and buying the boat?

 

Thanks for your Help!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This boat cost me £7500 upto now and still spending

[Lady Muck]

Before you start, what state is the hull in? Has it been surveyed, or even had someone who knows boats have a poke around it? Friend of a friend bought a Springer, spent over £10k on fitting it out, it started letting water in and he took it to my mates drydock who then declared it, 'possibly the worst condition hull I've ever seen.' And then told him it is beyond economical repair and refused to replate it. Just be careful, eh? Because to the untrained eye, it actually looks ok. Also it's a good idea to compare what you have to a new shell. Sometimes to renovate an old craft can be way more expensive than fitting a new shell.

Where will you fit it out? If it's the towpath then you add an extra level of problems, tools, gennies getting nicked (I see this happen near me all the time) , plus attempting to comply with ccing rules, getting stuff delivered etc. it can really slow you down.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Lady Muck

[bottle]

Hi again George Edwards

 

If you get this far, how do you plan to live on this boat, with a Home Mooring or Continuously Cruise? Rhetorical.

 

Here is where a lot of information about what you need to know, if you do decide to get a boat.

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating

 

and here is the information on how the boat has to comply with safety requirements.

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/

 

and just to get started, the boat has to be insured and licensed if on the water, circa £1,000

[David Mack]

Aintree Boats will sell you a 45 ft sailaway for £25k or £59k fully fitted. So they are charging £34k for the fitout. That covers labour and materials, but fair chunk of that must represent the materials cost you will incur if you do all the work yourself.

[bottle]

Well, George Edwards was here yesterday at 10 am but left no comment.

 

Ah! Well, perhaps the thread will help someone.

[MtB]

Well, George Edwards was here yesterday at 10 am but left no comment.

 

Ah! Well, perhaps the thread will help someone.

 

 

He's probably trying to reconcile the initial belief newbies often get that it could be done for £1k and the boat doubles in value, with the forum view saying its not worth the candle.

 

A dream trampled on, sadly.

 

MtB

[Pykebird]

There is a similar boat near to me. The young lay who owns it was actually given it, but it has already cost over a thousand pounds and is not even lined out! It has no engine and she just wants to live on it instead of paying rent on a house.

To be honest I can't see it being fit to live on, even with hook up without tat least another grand plus being spent on it. But despite being told this, its what she wants.

Edited June 20, 2014 by pykebird

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

There is a similar boat near to me. The young lay who owns it was actually given it, but it has already cost over a thousand pounds and is not even lined out! It has no engine and she just wants to live on it instead of paying rent on a house.

To be honest I can't see it being fit to live on, even with hook up without tat least another grand plus being spent on it. But despite being told this, its what she wants.

Hi ya,

You see in my mind, & with respect, that's part

of the problem.

If the boat isn't even lined, and she doesn't want it as a boat so to say, it's STILL going to cost 4 or 5 K to get it comfortable to live on. Not a further 1k as people may think.

Timber & Material to complete lining and Fit out.

Gas System,

Cooker,

Hotwater System,

Lighting,

Heating,

Toilet,

Basic Electrical System,

Sink,

BSS Certificate,

It soon clocks up the pounds !.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Pykebird]

I have a horrible feeling that she is just going to run a lead from the hook up into the boat and run everything from that! Hopefully I am wrong.....

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Yes, quite possibly,,

That's going to be cheep enough. I hope she gets it sorted anyway.

 

 

BTW

I love your Boat name (it's a shame more people aren't) and your Signature !.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2