Nice old Colecraft, refitted. Too expensive but nice nevertheless

[MtB]

Do you have a record of when Colecraft first started trading Pete?

 

If it really is 1981 I think this was before CC came into existence so it can't be a Colecraft.

[alan_fincher]

7 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

Not that it makes much difference, if I am reading the B.W.B. Index Number correctly as 69627 this will add at least another 4 years onto the age of this boat - 69627 being one of the first Index Numbers issued in 1980/81 

Tada......

Tundra Built by Rugby Boatblders - Length : 15.24 metres ( 50 feet ) - Beam : 2.07 metres ( 6 feet 9 inches ) - Draft : 0.5 metres ( 1 foot 8 inches ). Metal hull N/A power of 20 HP. Registered with Canal & River Trust number 69627 as a Powered Motor Boat.  ( Last updated on Wednesday 22nd May 2013 )

Obviously not conclusive proof, but more "evidence" it is not a Colecraft.

If it is Rugby Boatbuilders, I'd place fair money it is the most expensive one ever offered for sale.

Edited June 30, 2018 by alan_fincher

[pete harrison]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Do you have a record of when Colecraft first started trading Pete?

 

If it really is 1981 I think this was before CC came into existence so it can't be a Colecraft.

These boats fall way way outside of my field of interest / research.....................but I have just had a look in old Waterways World magazines and I have found a Colecraft advert in November 1981 page 72. I assisted with the fitting of a Brummagem Boats hire boat in 1979 (BANGLE - 30') and I am sure that came from Colecraft 

[alan_fincher]

6 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

These boats fall way way outside of my field of interest / research.....................but I have just had a look in old Waterways World magazines and I have found a Colecraft advert in November 1981 page 72. I assisted with the fitting of a Brummagem Boats hire boat in 1979 (BANGLE - 30') and I am sure that came from Colecraft 

THe Narrow Boat Owners Book suggests Colecraft celebrated 25 years of trading in 1999, so it seems that somewhere around 1974 is the oldest Colecraft you could have.

(Did I say I don't think this is a Colecraft?) ?

[Chewbacka]

9 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

THe Narrow Boat Owners Book suggests Colecraft celebrated 25 years of trading in 1999, so it seems that somewhere around 1974 is the oldest Colecraft you could have.

(Did I say I don't think this is a Colecraft?) ?

The Colecraft web site confirms your estimate as it states ...”Having been established in the industry since 1974”.....  

[LEO]

Well that's scuppered it, the arm chair surveyors and valuers have struck again - any of you chaps looked at or lived in a 300/400 year old cottage which has been restored? people pay good money for them - perhaps the same applies to carefully restored boats. It would be nice to see it for real and then pass judgement - then one gets a genuine opinion............... I made quite a good living buying old, clapped out houses, restoring and selling them (for quite high sums), boats are a similar commodity. Provided the work is done well what's the problem?. 

 

It's the same having an old working boat which is re-plated. re-built and re-fitted, only one is working in a developing market which the 'arm chair' valuer can't see..

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, LEO said:

 It would be nice to see it for real and then pass judgement - then one gets a genuine opinion...............

Given where you moor your boat, and particularly if you still take it over the summit with any regularity, you are likely to have seen it "for real" on numerous occasions.

I certainly have, and it never strays far from its usual haunts, I think.

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, LEO said:

Provided the work is done well what's the problem?.

It is surely fair comment that a (maybe) 37 year old over-plated Rugby Boatbuilders with an air cooled Lister SR3 is never going to be worth £60K, or even within tens of thousands of that figure. however well "restored".

When you look at 300 to 400 year old restored cottages, it should be possible to find other comparable examples that have already made at market something like what is being asked.

That simply isn't going to happen here - you don't need to survey the boat to know it can't be worth anything approaching £60K.

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, LEO said:

Well that's scuppered it, the arm chair surveyors and valuers have struck again - any of you chaps looked at or lived in a 300/400 year old cottage which has been restored? people pay good money for them - perhaps the same applies to carefully restored boats. It would be nice to see it for real and then pass judgement - then one gets a genuine opinion............... I made quite a good living buying old, clapped out houses, restoring and selling them (for quite high sums), boats are a similar commodity. Provided the work is done well what's the problem?. 

 

It's the same having an old working boat which is re-plated. re-built and re-fitted, only one is working in a developing market which the 'arm chair' valuer can't see..

 

Two observations:

 

1) With your cottage analogy, the land represents a substantial part of the value. Burn the cottage down and I bet the plot by itself is worth 75% of the cottage value. Corrode away the hull of the boat and you have nothing left to hold the lovely interior. Yes it has been overplated but as Jim (and others) here point out with photos, this can be disastrous too. 

 

2) Valuing a boat you don't want to buy is easy. There is a tendency to undervalue actually as there is no passion. Keeping a clear head about values once you fall in love with a nice interior however, is far more difficult. This is the same reason rusty old crates 80 years old fetch big money.

[LEO]

4 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

It is surely fair comment that a (maybe) 37 year old over-plated Rugby Boatbuilders with an air cooled Lister SR3 is never going to be worth £60K, or even within tens of thousands of that figure. however well "restored".

When you look at 300 to 400 year old restored cottages, it should be possible to find other comparable examples that have already made at market something like what is being asked.

That simply isn't going to happen here - you don't need to survey the boat to know it can't be worth anything approaching £60K.

 Has the engine been re-built?  Comparable evidence - yes, but I mentioned developing market - it's got to start somewhere.......£60k may be a high figure, but let's have a look before passing judgement, I spent years looking at seemingly overpriced houses and there's always a thing called negotiation, but I have always tried to adopt the approach - if you ain't seen it don't comment. You are entering the area of 'drive by' (or float by) valuations, which were / are pretty useless.

[Rob VP]

This boat has been on the market for quite some time. It was actually on for even more originally, they have recently dropped the price.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Rob VP

[alan_fincher]

I think we must agree to differ Mike.

To me "no boat of that kind of age and spec ever sells for anything close to that amount" is a fairly compelling argument it is grossly overpriced.

 

I don't need to do a tour of it to know that.

As a professional surveyor and valuer, I bet you could say that (for example) no two-bedroom ex Council terraced house in Luton was going to be worth (say) a million pound price tag.  You wouldn't need to see it in the flesh to decide that.

[LEO]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Two observations:

 

1) With your cottage analogy, the land represents a substantial part of the value. Burn the cottage down and I bet the plot by itself is worth 75% of the cottage value. Corrode away the hull of the boat and you have nothing left to hold the lovely interior. Yes it has been overplated but as Jim (and others) here point out with photos, this can be disastrous too. 

 

2) Valuing a boat you don't want to buy is easy. There is a tendency to undervalue actually as there is no passion. Keeping a clear head about values once you fall in love with a nice interior however, is far more difficult. This is the same reason rusty old crates 80 years old fetch big money.

Yes and no, unless it's say grade one listed and you have to build and exact replica or it's in a terrace and the same applies.

 

But is it a rusty old crate? . lets check the overplating details - are we going to reach the stage where many of the 40 year old boats on the canal have to be scrapped due to age?.

 

I once went on a boat buying spree with an American he wanted a boat just to use for a few weeks a year in the summer over here, he ended up with a 70ft H&L 30 years old with a huge air cooled Lister, He bought it for cash- no survey and I asked what happened if it developed a hole? - I just fish it out and weld a patch on it! - he had it for about 7 years. 

 

No survey (arm chair or other wise for him).

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Do you have a record of when Colecraft first started trading Pete?

 

If it really is 1981 I think this was before CC came into existence so it can't be a Colecraft.

I had a definately colecraft of 1981 vintage. Funnily enough at sale at present with Wilton.

5 minutes ago, Rob VP said:

This boat has been on the market for quite some time. It was actually on for even more originally, they have recently dropped the price.

It was on Fleabay.

[LEO]

4 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I think we must agree to differ Mike.

To me "no boat of that kind of age and spec ever sells for anything close to that amount" is a fairly compelling argument it is grossly overpriced.

 

I don't need to do a tour of it to know that.

As a professional surveyor and valuer, I bet you could say that (for example) no two-bedroom ex Council terraced house in Luton was going to be worth (say) a million pound price tag.  You wouldn't need to see it in the flesh to decide that.

I tend to agree Alan, but if an ex LA house in Luton came up at £1million , I would still like to look at it, it may be next to a development site................really, I can see where you chaps are coming from but be careful with armchair opinions, they can bounce back, I used to qualify advice like this as saying this is an informal personal opinion with having seen the subject (eyz) either internally or externally.

[mark99]

Should be renamed Herman Munster with that carbuncle of a cratch.

[MtB]

56 minutes ago, LEO said:

I tend to agree Alan, but if an ex LA house in Luton came up at £1million , I would still like to look at it, it may be next to a development site................

 

Hey good point. I wonder if this boat is on for such a high price because it is moored next to a development site!

[alan_fincher]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Hey good point. I wonder if this boat is on for such a high price because it is moored next to a development site!

Pictures are taken at Cosgrove, I would say, whereas the ad says the boat is in Berkjamsted.

[LEO]

13 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Pictures are taken at Cosgrove, I would say, whereas the ad says the boat is in Berkjamsted.

If it's for sale in Berko that explains it, prospective purchasers pay huge sums for houses there - boats as well, they normally buy two, his and hers!!

[koukouvagia]

I can see why the owner is putting the boat on the market for what seems a huge sum.  Clearly a great deal of expensive work has been done: new steel superstructure, replating, a paint job, a high quality fit out etc.  Renovating an old boat like this is always very costly and presumably the owner would like to recoup his expenditure.

Using Leo's house-selling analogy, it's rather like someone buying an old property and then spending a fortune on doing it up and then expecting to sell at a profit.  A sensible house developer will only spend as much on a refurbishment as he or she knows the market will bear.  

 

Mind you, I can't talk, having spent a fortune on restoring a 107 year old boat.  But then I'd never put it on the market expecting to make a profit.  I'd be lucky to break even.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by koukouvagia

[David Mack]

1 minute ago, koukouvagia said:

I can see why the owner is putting the boat on the market for what seems a huge sum.  Clearly a great deal of expensive work has been done: new steel superstructure, replating, a paint job, a high quality fit out etc.  Renovating an old boat like this is always very costly and presumably the owner would like to recoup his expenditure.

 

Would he stand a better chance of recouping his time, effort and money if he had started with a brand new sailaway?

[OldGoat]

50 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Should be renamed Herman Munster with that carbuncle of a cratch.

Methinks everybody's missing the point.

I surmise that it's aimed at the floating country cottage market. The ostentatious cratch  is there so that 'you' can stand up in it and use it as a front room.

Likewise the interior is to be seen and not for its practicalities.

Perhaps it will end up in London on one of those paid for moorings?? 

[70liveaboard]

Can boil down to.. lots of money for some, is little money to others.

Someone will buy and probably pay not that much short of the asking price. Many here know we wouldn't buy it ourselves, but that interior for me, could sell the boat.

Just need deep pockets.

[Bee]

I like it, not going to buy it though, So how long does a steel boat last? theres an awful lot of Dutch barges built before WW1 still going around as pleasure craft, quite a few narrowboats of advanced years too. Quite a few commercial boats on the European canals still being worked hard and many decades old, so why is it that a narrowboat, massively strongly built for UK canals is considered on its last legs when its overplated? Nobody wants to find thin bits on their hull but the repairs are pretty straightforward and eventually, after many years, it can be replated and new frames put in if needed, then its ready for another 50 years. Steel rusts, then its repaired, easy.

[Stewart Kirby]

Yes, I like it too, but at £25k after a full hull survey.