70liveaboard

Hello OP welcome. It's one of those forums you come back to after long absences, well we do.

OP I don't think there would be much of a problem leaving a porti loo half full, other than smell maybe.

I've heard of both of these builders Jaris and D&G in Hull. Years melt away, when names are mentioned. I read your post above about Hallmark Narrowboats, they are/were very good builders. Also Clubline and Mike Heywood who I knew too. Did you want any info about Mike ?

Nice surprise Hallmark boats, I'm a fan of them, do you have one ? Your right about the range name.

Even more fun increasing the size of the pic's. Amazing what you get to see.. But people will make their own decisions on fab quality, weld (or lack of it), weld quality, cuts etc.. oh, and of course fake rivets..

I'm assuming the machine gun rivets are probably fake ones, seeing as its a Brinklow. Plus who put the bulkhead in between the engine room and main cabin.. the apprentice perhaps.. ? How many pieces to make a bulkhead, only Brinklow knows.. lol Some fool with too much money will buy it no doubt.. But it's so over priced, looking at the shell itself, its really just funny.

If the year of this is right and the length 45ft (although marked here as 44), then this is a 'Tradline' from Hallmark. Tradline was their fully traditional, classed as a lower mid range boat. Don't see many of these around at all. I know they built quite a number of trads, semi trads etc. But they were their standard mid/upper mid range, to higher end, depending on customer spec, with standard steel spec of 10/6/4 (standard for the 90's really), or above, as was the 70ft in this thread (iirc 10/8/5/4). Not sure of the spec of the Tradline one's, but I'll try and find out. Anyway: https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/hallmark-44-traditional/619607

It would be silly to take this to court. Simply drive up and talk to them at the office. The family have built boats for decades and are, on the whole, reasonable. So just go direct, phone email is always a waste of time, best to talk face to face. Side note, Stan died towards the end of last year, which was a big thing for the family, I do believe Collingwood is simply Liverpool Boats (etc). But back in the day Liverpool had a seperate 'fully fitted' boat business that ran seperate to the shell side. But that was a very long time ago, not sure how things panned out over the subsequent years. They probably decided to merge everything into one and why not. They have probably built the most shells of any builder ( by far, probably), so know the building side very well. Stan used to dive with John White, he told me, it was over that they fell out. I think they started building as a team very early on, not sure, just going from our conversations and the impression I got. Stan would never tell you everything. Overall I liked Stan a lot, even though I did get on the wrong side of him occasionally (you don't want to do that, well not with Stan). But we had a very good friendly working relationship, even having drinks at the 'Yacht' club of which he was a member.. (Yacht club in Liverpool.. what next..) I was sad to hear of his death, it was an end of an era in boatbuilding for many people in the industry, from way back anyway. The boats they have produced, well, I just wonder where all these boats go sometimes, think of all the steel going onto the canals in the UK..

Hallmark supplied shells to other builders from their Newark fabrication workshop. But I'm pretty sure Calcutt was not one of them.

The welds were always left as they were (budget range) on earlier shells ie. pre 95/early 96'. Plus all rub strakes were fully welded top and intervals bottom. Earlier 'show' boats that went to agents, were built by contracted shell builders. Hallmark did initially have the boats fall very much inside 'budget', because the early boats were very cheap indeed, a 35' being under £16,000, so welded top strakes were as yours is. Later as prices increased due to demand, they altered their view on welding and fully welded top strakes and ground (to a degree elsewhere). Very few boats went out without fully welded top strakes, so that is what makes me think this is an early or ex show boat. Don't forget they built usual narrowboats (higher prices), when I say usual, I mean non budget. The budget range was simply to get people afloat, that may not have been able to otherwise. That worked very well. My thinking is, yours may be prior to 96', some show boats were kept at agents for some time, then brought back to tidy up and sell when they were renewed. That is not to say it's not a 98', it may well have been first user/launched in 98' (as new, because it was new, had just been standing on hard standing as a show boat prior, so not used). Standard spec for the budget range: 6mm base 5mm hull sides 3mm cabin

A rather nice 40ft from Hallmark. The engine bay and stern deck have really been kept clean, plus renewed. Another Hallmark that has increased its price. I have been following Hallmarks for some years and have not seen one yet, that has sold for less than bought for new.. These are the builders that hold their prices well, Liverpool is much the same, D Clarke, John White, Jaris, PKB and many other mid range builders are the ones that most sensible boaters go for, if they want a return later when selling. https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/hallmark-40-cruiser-stern/618878

Bus Bulbs.. 12v

I think anyone that can afford a boat plus the required licence has a right to be on the canal/river. The fact a boat is a little unkempt is really not an issue. If they moor and start using the public towpath as a sort of garden area, ie. putting everything out there. Then they become a problem. I was talking to a builder friend over the past few days. We wondered where saturation point might be. I remember being asked this back in the mid 90's by a Vetus rep. After pumping out (building) larg'ish numbers of boats and the friend I was talking too (plus his brother), also pumping out even more numbers over decades. Makes one wonder if there really is a saturation point at all. Or, if money (licence income etc) means everything and the waterways would have to come to a complete standstill for them to think... Ah, perhaps there are too many boats..

I missed this. Well hello Baz No I don't build now (retired), my son does though. Thanks for the nod towards the pic, I did ask someone you know/knew pretty well, he said it would be o.k. How is your Chris, is he still around building, I know you do. Haven't been intouch at all, time passes so quickly. Hope all is well.

Last shell I bought from Liverpool was when Stan was firmly in charge back in mid 90's. Didn't see any really bad welding or fabrication, but they were straight forward honest boats, not the best by any means, but they didn't hide what they were. Welds were solid and the fabrication was fairly well done, grinding was flush (no more than flush.. well..). Overall Liverpool was a solid boat that keeps it's price well. People that pay big money can afford to lose that money and are not bothered when their boat depreciates like a brick. They tend to shout the loudest that theirs is the best boat, but it isn't, not from a builders point of view. Just look at sales down the road. Only boats that hold prices are good boats. Certainly for the sensible boater. Many builders seen as high end (only by punters) treat customers (behind backs) like s***. Those builders start to believe that they can charge whatever they like and treat folk however they want. It's not the builders fault, it's the fault of those that stick them on a pedestal that they're really not worthy of being on. All boats have distortion, many grinds are over done etc, lack of structure, stiffeners, strengthening. They grind it right back then fill it, plus fill out the distortion. I and many builders laugh when those that think they know boats say "look at the lines on that, how straight it is". When most builders and people that do know what they're looking at just stand there thinking how much bog went into it. Fake rivets, bog and more, tend to be the choice of some builders, that many punters/boaters tend to say are higher end, mostly because they're kept away from the building process. Builders know however who is worth the praise, rarely who the buying public think. There is nothing wrong with bog in boats, if you want a lovely paint job. Just don't mistake it for fabrication or welding ie; lines. All steel shells look pretty straight until painted. The builder knows that, so some builders fill the hell out of a shell when the paint goes on and tells the customer, it brings out the great lines, when really it's, smoke and mirrors.