March of the Widebeams

[Captain Pegg]

On 16/09/2023 at 11:45, IanD said:

 

Love the historically accurate red and white stern bands... 😉

 

That’s actually a clever way of combining tradition and functionality on a modern design.

 

The practice of painting opposing shades of stark colours on the stern of boats existed before counter bands on motor boats. It’s evident on the rudders of horse boats and butties and in some cases in decoration of the hull itself below the top bends. It’s also evident in the colours and shapes used on the rear of cabins on all types of boat. Although in that case they aren’t visible when the cabin doors are open which may go some way to explaining counter bands (or even the notion they are ‘tunnel’ bands).

 

Hence if you want to make your boat more visible to traffic approaching from the rear that’s a sensible way to do it given the layout of this particular boat.

[magnetman]

Not seen the starn but this Norfolk wherry is wherry visible from the front in low light. 

 

I once saw a CRT volunteer painting the lock balance beams and bollards all black. I think he was wondering who had forgotten to overcoat the white bits ! 

 

[matty40s]

On 16/09/2023 at 11:13, matty40s said:

It may say something about the owner when they name a boat after a Belgian lager also known in this country as wife beater....

Well, this twit has just come past all the boats round here at virtually full chat with his bowthruster being used almost constantly.

Probably about 8 people on board, having a party.

 

 

Edited September 18 by 1st ade
Bowdlerised a word we don't use on this forum

[magnetman]

There used to be a narrow boat called Stella with the branding who I recall was always going past other boats too fast. One day they will get mooring pins through their windows early in the morning. 

 

 

Edited September 17 by magnetman
typo

[BilgePump]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

There used to be a narrow boat called Stella with the branding who I recall was always going past other boats too fast. One day they will get mooring pins through their windows early in the morning. 

 

 

You've not met NB Tennants Extra or NB Special Brew yet? 

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, BilgePump said:

You've not met NB Tennants Extra or NB Special Brew yet? 

Wellpark Brewery in the impoverished East End of Glasgow was the source of Tennant's Lager, in tins. Now modern flats, it's been gentrified.

Buckfast, brewed by a large contingent of monks to supply the winos of Glasgow.

I bought a bottle once: undrinkable but made a robust coq au vin!

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, magnetman said:

Not seen the starn but this Norfolk wherry is wherry visible from the front in low light. 

 

I once saw a CRT volunteer painting the lock balance beams and bollards all black. I think he was wondering who had forgotten to overcoat the white bits ! 

 

And never carried Navigation lights

[magnetman]

Nice to see people using setting poles. 

 

I do often think in terms of boating Norfolk may be "where its at". 

 

 

[GUMPY]

19 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Nice to see people using setting poles. 

 

I do often think in terms of boating Norfolk may be "where its at". 

 

 

Not round Wroxham it isn't 

[magnetman]

M25?

[Mike Todd]

13 hours ago, magnetman said:

Nice to see people using setting poles. 

 

I do often think in terms of boating Norfolk may be "where its at". 

 

 

A boat reversed past us day before yesterday uding a pole at the bow to correct the lack of steerage in  reverse. They seemed to be foung remarkably well as they has minimal room either side from moored boats and they avoided touching us. Not easy in this location even when in forward. 

[LadyG]

15 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

A boat reversed past us day before yesterday uding a pole at the bow to correct the lack of steerage in  reverse. They seemed to be foung remarkably well as they has minimal room either side from moored boats and they avoided touching us. Not easy in this location even when in forward. 

Yes, but don't boats avoid each other if parallel, and close. I don't  usual hit others by relying on this effect:) , admittedly in forward where I can steer effectively. 

I thought you'd come up with a new boating term, but it's fat finger syndrome.

 

Edited September 18 by LadyG

[Graham and Jo]

Experiencing wide beam rage right now. This one turned at Woolfhamcote and is now crawling west slower than the 3 boats following it can go on idle. We cracked in the end and moored for lunch.

 

Cheers Graham

 

[SLC]

Just met this one coming the other way so no real issue but we were behind 2 hire boats zig zagging across the cut going so slowly we too were catching up in idle. No idea about courtesy so we too have moored up and given the weather forecast, for the day. And the widebeam has now passed us having indeed turned around hitting the bank while doing so. Oh how frustrating!

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

Yes, but don't boats avoid each other if parallel, and close. I don't  usual hit others by relying on this effect:) , admittedly in forward where I can steer effectively. 

I thought you'd come up with a new boating term, but it's fat finger syndrome.

 

Your final assumption is, alas, correct!

 

Usually, passing close to something results in them being drawn together.  Most frequently when getting to close to a tunnel wall and being unable to escape it. In the narrow gap, the water drawn back by the prop reduces the pressure and hence pulls ever closer. Can often see the effect in narrow bridge holes. 

[IanD]

50 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Your final assumption is, alas, correct!

 

Usually, passing close to something results in them being drawn together.  Most frequently when getting to close to a tunnel wall and being unable to escape it. In the narrow gap, the water drawn back by the prop reduces the pressure and hence pulls ever closer. Can often see the effect in narrow bridge holes. 

It's not the water being drawn back by the prop, it's the water flowing back past the hull which has to happen if the boat is to move forwards -- move the boat forwards one boat length and around 20 tons of water must move back one boat length to replace it, which is far more water than the prop pushes back to propel the boat.

 

For this flow to happen there has to be a "downhill slope" on the water from bow to stern and this slope gets bigger the narrower the channel is, the drop several inches when you go through a narrow bridge hole -- you can see the same happen in any shallow narrow stretch of canal. Which is why the boat slows down because it's effectively going uphill...

 

Then this flow of water back past the boat does indeed cause a pressure drop (due to Bernoulli effect) which will suck the boat towards the closer bank, for example a tunnel wall as noted. You can prove it's the boat motion not water flow over the prop causing it, it still happens for a bit (until the boat stops...) if you drop into neutral -- though not as much if you slow down.

 

So right effect, wrong cause -- if anyone actually cares... 😉

[magnetman]

Vessel interaction is a very interesting topic.

 

The famous Marchioness disaster on the Thames involved a degree of interaction.

 

Canal boats are a bit like tiny ships in confined waters.

 

 

https://maritime-executive.com/blog/vessel-interaction-have-you-considered-the-possibilities

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Vessel interaction is a very interesting topic.

 

The famous Marchioness disaster on the Thames involved a degree of interaction.

 

Canal boats are a bit like tiny ships in confined waters.

 

https://maritime-executive.com/blog/vessel-interaction-have-you-considered-the-possibilities

There was a discussion about this recently on another thread, which if nothing else showed that many people don't understand how this actually works e.g. when two canal boats are passing in opposite directions...

Edited September 18 by IanD

[SLC]

At least we had an excuse or reason to walk to Flecknoe and then down through Shuckburgh Park and it was a lovely autumnal walk.

We discovered this interaction very early on doing our helmsman's course particularly in Braunston tunnel. In fairness it was in the guide book we bought and well explained but it means nothing really until you experience it for real.

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, IanD said:

It's not the water being drawn back by the prop, it's the water flowing back past the hull which has to happen if the boat is to move forwards -- move the boat forwards one boat length and around 20 tons of water must move back one boat length to replace it, which is far more water than the prop pushes back to propel the boat.

 

For this flow to happen there has to be a "downhill slope" on the water from bow to stern and this slope gets bigger the narrower the channel is, the drop several inches when you go through a narrow bridge hole -- you can see the same happen in any shallow narrow stretch of canal. Which is why the boat slows down because it's effectively going uphill...

 

Then this flow of water back past the boat does indeed cause a pressure drop (due to Bernoulli effect) which will suck the boat towards the closer bank, for example a tunnel wall as noted. You can prove it's the boat motion not water flow over the prop causing it, it still happens for a bit (until the boat stops...) if you drop into neutral -- though not as much if you slow down.

 

So right effect, wrong cause -- if anyone actually cares... 😉

I think you are making a bit of a pedantic point, I was just trying to clarify the direction of the athwartships force. However,  it is the prop that generates the force to drive the boat forward in the first place. It also creates the gradient - see comments elsewhere about excess engine speed digging the stern ever deeper into the silt.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

I think you are making a bit of a pedantic point, I was just trying to clarify the direction of the athwartships force. However,  it is the prop that generates the force to drive the boat forward in the first place. It also creates the gradient - see comments elsewhere about excess engine speed digging the stern ever deeper into the silt.

The stern digging in does happen if the prop pulls water from underneath the boat, but that's a separate issue to the water flow *past the boat* which was being discussed -- and the water rushing back past the boat/pulling to one side happens even if a horse is pulling the boat. So yes it's due to any moving boat no matter how it's propelled -- with or without a propeller... 😉

[Captain Pegg]

Look at this one I encountered moored at Linslade today, forcing me into the offside bushes.

 

I’m going to write a strongly worded letter to my MP.

Disgruntled of Tunbridge Wells.

[IanM]

22 hours ago, Graham and Jo said:

Experiencing wide beam rage right now. This one turned at Woolfhamcote and is now crawling west slower than the 3 boats following it can go on idle. We cracked in the end and moored for lunch.

 

Cheers Graham

 

 

He was moored* when we passed him yesterday morning so he must have set off shortly afterwards as we met those hire boats at Braunston.

 

*why do wider boats often choose to moor in the narrowest part of the canal?  He was moored opposite a large bank of reeds essentially reducing the width down to one boat.  If he'd moved a boat length either way it would have been fine.

 

[matty40s]

On 17/09/2023 at 18:20, matty40s said:

Well, this twit has just come past all the boats round here at virtually full chat with his bowthruster being used almost constantly.

Probably about 8 people on board, having a party.

 

 

More news on Stella the fatty, several boats on the Weedon pound were hit on Sunday, one quite badly, with damage caused to front end. There was also some damage done to the piling at and opposite Whilton marina where the chap attempted to turn at rather silly speed.

Apparently, he is off to Milton Keynes next, I wonder if he knows he has to book tunnel passage, or will just plough on through like he has done everywhere else so far!!

Watch out Captain Pegg, he is coming your way!!

Edited September 19 by matty40s

[M_JG]

19 minutes ago, matty40s said:

More news on Stella the fatty, several boats on the Weedon pound were hit on Sunday, one quite badly, with damage caused to front end. There was also some damage done to the piling at and opposite Whilton marina where the chap attempted to turn at rather silly speed.

Apparently, he is off to Milton Keynes next, I wonder if he knows he has to book tunnel passage, or will just plough on through like he has done everywhere else so far!!

Watch out Captain Pegg, he is coming your way!!

 

Someone has actually called their boat 'Stella', seriously?