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dccruiser

boat fire

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Not a lover of secrecy especially when name and even photos are available elsewhere. What is clear is that like the vast majority of boat fatalities it is a tragic accident.  Speculation is human nature but a pretty pointless exercise in my view.

However it is a stark reminder to test your smoke and carbon monoxide alarms and make sure they are in date whilst always ensuring that you have a choice of two exits.

My sympathies to family and friends

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1 minute ago, Tuscan said:

Not a lover of secrecy especially when name and even photos are available elsewhere.

They are now, I agree, but there was a firm request not to name her, and I have stuck to that, as requested.

It is not always obvious in such circumstances whether family will yet have all been notified.  When my wife's mother died suddenly a few years back the Police had considerable difficulty contacting us, (we were on the boat).  I would not have wished my wife to find out from Facebook.

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39 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

My point is that, unless we know the facts for any particular incident, we can't be sure whether there was a basic flaw in the underlying installation, or whether there was a question of inappropriate operation of the stove.  It is a suggestion of the latter that has been posted elsewhere, but, lets be honest, most of us actually have no idea what applied in this case, and I think it is unhelpful to suggest what may well prove not to actually have been the case.  Let the investigators do their job, and publish their findings.

My post was responding to Bee's suggestion that more research is needed into what is good practice in stove installation. Whereas this is generally already known. I made no comment about stove operation.

None of us know the particular causes of this latest event. Let's await the outcome of the investigation which will presumably be carried out.

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For what it is worth, the name of the unfortunate woman has been released to the local Newspaper by the Staffordshire Fire Service, but I do not know her. The Police have declared that the cause was "accidental" but no details.

Edited by David Schweizer

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In addition to her name they also report:

A joint fire investigation has taken place with colleagues from West Midlands Fire Service and Staffordshire Police. This found that the fire started accidentally, after a log burner door was left open and a lit item fell onto nearby carpet.

Paul Shaw, Fire Investigation Officer, said: “Tragically, despite our best efforts a woman died as a result of this fire and our thoughts are with her family at this difficult time.

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I guess I'm wandering into dangerous territory not maybe appropriate here, but what is the problem with the headline? It is addressed to "the people" and that is generally how such craft are known, so saying "fire on 52' Colecraft" or whatever would be totally meaningless except to a very small subgroup.

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Not speculating, but have been thinking about what has been reported.

Considering the experience of the lady, im wondering how many people leave the door of their stove open over night?

i ask from a viewpoint of learning from this tragic incident.

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13 minutes ago, BWM said:

https://www.signal80s.co.uk/news/local-news/fatal-barge-fire-started-accidentally/

This article gives the suspected cause as stated by the fire service. 

Fair enough - clearly the request to protect the name is no longer relevant.

They do not of course say whether there were functioning alarms present, which would of course be interesting to know.

2 minutes ago, kawaton said:

Not speculating, but have been thinking about what has been reported.

Considering the experience of the lady, im wondering how many people leave the door of their stove open over night?

i ask from a viewpoint of learning from this tragic incident.

If you leave the top door open on our multifuel burner (an old Coalbrookdale Much Wenlock), alarms are usually going off in under 20 seconds, so certainly not us!

It can not now be known, of course, whether she intended to leave it open.

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4 minutes ago, kawaton said:

Not speculating, but have been thinking about what has been reported.

Considering the experience of the lady, im wondering how many people leave the door of their stove open over night?

i ask from a viewpoint of learning from this tragic incident.

In view of the known dangers, I would suggest none.

It is speculation and maybe we should await the full findings, but how would the investigators identify that the door was intentionally left open, rather than not 'properly closed & latched' and during the night a log rolled within the fire box, pushing the door open and then rolled out ?

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2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Fair enough - clearly the request to protect the name is no longer relevant.

They do not of course say whether there were functioning alarms present, which would of course be interesting to know.

It is surprising that they have established the cause so early on, it normally takes some time to investigate. I find the smoke alarm we have fitted invaluable, as the temperature sensor will warn if the stove door is left ajar for any length of time. 

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2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:


It can not now be known, of course, whether she intended to leave it open.

Thanks.

I typed and then deleted the same thing. (trying to be careful about speculation re. this specific incident. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, kawaton said:

Not speculating, but have been thinking about what has been reported.

Considering the experience of the lady, im wondering how many people leave the door of their stove open over night?

i ask from a viewpoint of learning from this tragic incident.

This is where these quickie reports are unhelpful. I'd expect the MAIB investigators to take a lot more care to look at the condition of the door latch and whether there was sufficient hearth in front of the stove to catch falling material.

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17 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

 

Difficult decision, but in this case I think the locking was sensible.

Elsewhere on the Internet some rather unpleasant speculative stuff got posted, which, even if ultimately proved to be true, I don't think should be put up in a situation where members of her family could see it.

Many of us know who this is, but it has not been officially announced.  Despite direct requests not to name her, people elsewhere have given away enough information that effectively it wouldn't have made a lot of difference if they had.

I understand people will wish to show their sadness, but not everybody sticks to only saying what is appropriate, sadly.

(Someone will no doubt now tell me I am being pompous).

It saddens me that this thread was left unlocked for people to offer their condolences to the friends and family of the lady in question, yet looking today there are so many posts just highlighting the cause of her sad death which out of respect could have been put in a separate thread or even left for discussion for a few days ....

Rick

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5 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

It saddens me that this thread was left unlocked for people to offer their condolences to the friends and family of the lady in question, yet looking today there are so many posts just highlighting the cause of her sad death which out of respect could have been put in a separate thread or even left for discussion for a few days ....

Rick

I wasn't aware from the title, etc that the thread was specifically for condolences only, but speaking for myself the posts in the main appear to be trying to make sense of this dreadful tragedy, nothing more. 

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2 minutes ago, BWM said:

I wasn't aware from the title, etc that the thread was specifically for condolences only, but speaking for myself the posts in the main appear to be trying to make sense of this dreadful tragedy, nothing more. 

Which as i said could have been done in a separate thread leaving this one purely for people to pay their respects rather than speculating what she did wrong which seems to me a lot less respectful to her friends and family members.

Rick

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54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In view of the known dangers, I would suggest none.

It is speculation and maybe we should await the full findings, but how would the investigators identify that the door was intentionally left open, rather than not 'properly closed & latched' and during the night a log rolled within the fire box, pushing the door open and then rolled out ?

I suspect that 'open' in investigation speak means not shut properly.

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2 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I suspect that 'open' in investigation speak means not shut properly.

My point was, following this statement :

A joint investigation with Staffordshire and West Midlands Fire Services and Staffordshire Police found the fire started accidentally, after a multi-fuel burner door was left open and a lit item fell onto nearby carpet.

How can they tell if it was LEFT Open, or came open ?

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I still think that 'left open' means 'not latched shut' and the actual angle of the door can not be inferred from the statement.  The logic being that a door can only be shut or open and open is everything other than correctly shut.

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First my condolences to all of her family and it seems she was a really well known lovely person.

I think we should only pay our respects to all on this thread.

And I think in A week or so maybe ' on another thread we can discuss how we can  all help each other to be safe'r ',  but not here.

Two Angels xxxxx

Hugs

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3 hours ago, BruceinSanity said:

This ^^^

There will be an MAIB report in due course, no doubt, which always seem to manage to tease out the issues without assigning blame. The very thoroughness of the investigation means we have to wait a while for it, though.

 

Will there be a MAIB report? looking at their web site they have only investigated one narrowboat fire and that was was ten years ago. Given that the fire service investigators have already issued a report it seems unlikely that the MAIB will get involved.

Tim

Edited by Tim Lewis

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7 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

 

Will there be a MAIB report? looking at their web site they have only investigated one narrowboat fire and that was was ten years ago. Given that the fire service investigators have already issued a report it seems unlikely that the MAIB will get involved.

Tim

I was wondering the same thing. It is not very clear how wide MAIB's role is in relation to inland waterways incidents. But they do more often get involved where there have been fatalities. My guess is they will not want to simply duplicate the fire service investigation, but if they think there are some lessons of wider application they may decide to get involved.

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when I was fitting out on the hard a guy living in a dry-sailing yacht next to mine died in a fire.  I asked if the circumstances could be published which BSS advised would be done once released by the investigating authorities.  I heard no more about it.  A waste of a life and of an opportunity for the rest of us to learn lessons.

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