Smoke on The water

[furnessvale]

58 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Battery power is similar to clockwork power, strong at first and slowly but surely getting weaker and weaker until you fail to proceed at all. For this reason your route needs to be planned very carefully beforehand, with any steep inclines at the beginning of the run whilst the battery still has plenty of oomph in it, or the spring is still well wound to charge up the hills, with an easy run down to your destination, dodging any upgrades towards the end of the run or you might not make it. More and more folk will need to live on mountain tops and big hills to take advantage of the powerless downhill head start of the run.  For example, Shap summit where you could coast with power off all the way down north to Carlisle or south to Lancaster for shopping and afternoon tea and things, which should then leave plenty of battery power or spring tension in reserve to climb back up and return home without having to get out and push it, but all things generally being equal you will end up pushing it, from about halfway up. Ideally special escalators should be installed up and down steep hills to convey these vehicles up to save battery charge and spring tension which should increase the vehicles mileage endurance.

Surely it would be better if everybody lived in Carlisle but the supermarket was built on the top of Shap.

We could all go out shopping (uphill), safe in the knowledge that even with flat batteries we could coast home?

George

[bizzard]

8 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Nothing so primitive, I had a Hornby Dublo! I did have a clockwork motor with my Meccano, later upgraded to electric. 

I used to drive mum to the edge with a friction powered American police car. 

I was joking about the 'wind up' 

Yes friction power has very similar power charateristics as clockwork and battery power, the onlt difference would be the need for thousands of enormous giant hands dotted about to launch you and to give extra shoves along the way. But I like flywhhel power. Perhaps you read my plan way back on here about constructing enormous flywheels to drive alternators to supply the world with electricity in years to come. Massive flywheels of about 3 miles in diameter mounted in tandem, one in use whilst the other is being wound up to speed by hundreds of blokes with handles ready for when the other runs down.  There is also the possibility of of using what they called ''rubber duration'' in model aircraft parlance. The double rubber band duration method could quite easily adapt an ordinary car by attaching the rubber bands to the propshaft flange on the differential of a rear wheel drive car, the front of the bands could be attached to the starting handle at the front of the car to twist the rubber bands todeveloping their power, or by tornique method with a stick through a hatch in the floor.  Clockwork, friction and the rubber band methods of propulsion all are much more advantageous than battery power as you can keep youself going without keep charging batteries.  Either with turning motion of a nice key,  people to give you a good push off or the self application of a stick to twist and rewind the rubber bands.

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Surely it would be better if everybody lived in Carlisle but the supermarket was built on the top of Shap.

We could all go out shopping (uphill), safe in the knowledge that even with flat batteries we could coast home?

George

And regen would recharge the batteries amazing  how clever these people are

[bizzard]

5 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Surely it would be better if everybody lived in Carlisle but the supermarket was built on the top of Shap.

We could all go out shopping (uphill), safe in the knowledge that even with flat batteries we could coast home?

George

Brilliant.

[Athy]

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

 Ideally special escalators should be installed up and down steep hills to convey these vehicles up

What a brilliantly innovative idea. We could call them "locks".

[furnessvale]

12 minutes ago, peterboat said:

And regen would recharge the batteries amazing  how clever these people are

We've just invented perpetual motion! (OK, don't mention how we get all that shopping into the supermarket on top of Shap summit).

George

[bizzard]

4 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

We've just invented perpetual motion! (OK, don't mention how we get all that shopping into the supermarket on top of Shap summit).

George

Luney init.

[nb Innisfree]

57 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Yes friction power has very similar power charateristics as clockwork and battery power, the onlt difference would be the need for thousands of enormous giant hands dotted about to launch you and to give extra shoves along the way. But I like flywhhel power. Perhaps you read my plan way back on here about constructing enormous flywheels to drive alternators to supply the world with electricity in years to come. Massive flywheels of about 3 miles in diameter mounted in tandem, one in use whilst the other is being wound up to speed by hundreds of blokes with handles ready for when the other runs down.  There is also the possibility of of using what they called ''rubber duration'' in model aircraft parlance. The double rubber band duration method could quite easily adapt an ordinary car by attaching the rubber bands to the propshaft flange on the differential of a rear wheel drive car, the front of the bands could be attached to the starting handle at the front of the car to twist the rubber bands todeveloping their power, or by tornique method with a stick through a hatch in the floor.  Clockwork, friction and the rubber band methods of propulsion all are much more advantageous than battery power as you can keep youself going without keep charging batteries.  Either with turning motion of a nice key,  people to give you a good push off or the self application of a stick to twist and rewind the rubber bands.

Yes I remember your flywheel post 

[Bewildered]

The problem to charging up electric vehicles is quite obvious when you think about it. What you need is an electric pickup truck with an industrial diesel generator mounted on the back. You would tick all the boxes, able to comply with new electric vehicle laws, able to be charged wherever you park, and capable of doing a 400+mile journey as you can charge whilst travelling.

Can't believe you lot didn't spot that idea earlier.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Bewildered

[bizzard]

9 minutes ago, Bewildered said:

The problem to charging up electric vehicles is quite obvious when you think about it. What you need is an electric pickup truck with an industrial diesel generator mounted on the back. You would tick all the boxes, able to comply with new electric vehicle laws, able to be charged wherever you park, and capable of doing a 400+mile journey as you can charge whilst travelling.

Can't believe you lot didn't spot that idea earlier.

I'd call that Lobrid.

[Peter Thornton]

1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

Surely it would be better if everybody lived in Carlisle but the supermarket was built on the top of Shap.

We could all go out shopping (uphill), safe in the knowledge that even with flat batteries we could coast home?

George

I’m all for thar, as I live halfway between Kendal and Shap summit!

[system 4-50]

7 hours ago, Bewildered said:

The problem to charging up electric vehicles is quite obvious when you think about it. What you need is an electric pickup truck with an industrial diesel generator mounted on the back. You would tick all the boxes, able to comply with new electric vehicle laws, able to be charged wherever you park, and capable of doing a 400+mile journey as you can charge whilst travelling.

Can't believe you lot didn't spot that idea earlier.

Brilliant! Just change the wheels as necessary and you could pull trains with it!

[cuthound]

Here is an opinion from a real electric car user.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2016-07/reader-gives-up-electric-car-for-12-good-reasons/

According to honest john, in real driving conditions, where you have to occasionally use lights, wipers and the heater, electric cars average about half of the manufacturers claimed range.

There are several elephants in the room:

• national electricy generation capacity and distribution,
• isses with  recycling lithium ion batteries https://waste-management-world.com/a/1-the-lithium-battery-recycling-challenge
• short life expectancy (replacement battery costs will effectively write off the car news new batteries are needed after 6-10 years), battery leasing costs will be high to left this,  
• limited range, and,
• prolonged recharge times (making frequent use of high power "superchargers" will reduce battery life.

I think the motor manufacturers are lobbying government as they see are more profitable future with electrically powered vehicles, than with internal combustion powered ones.

In my opinion the only viable electric vehicle is one where the batteries can be quickly swapped for new ones and the old ones reycled (aluminium air, lead acid etc), enabling long journeys to be undertaken in times comparable to those by internal combustion engined cars.

[peterboat]

12 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Here is an opinion from a real electric car user.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2016-07/reader-gives-up-electric-car-for-12-good-reasons/

According to honest john, in real driving conditions, where you have to occasionally use lights, wipers and the heater, electric cars average about half of the manufacturers claimed range.

There are several elephants in the room:

• national electricy generation capacity and distribution,
• isses with  recycling lithium ion batteries https://waste-management-world.com/a/1-the-lithium-battery-recycling-challenge
• short life expectancy (replacement battery costs will effectively write off the car news new batteries are needed after 6-10 years), battery leasing costs will be high to left this,  
• limited range, and,
• prolonged recharge times (making frequent use of high power "superchargers" will reduce battery life.

I think the motor manufacturers are lobbying government as they see are more profitable future with electrically powered vehicles, than with internal combustion powered ones.

In my opinion the only viable electric vehicle is one where the batteries can be quickly swapped for new ones and the old ones reycled (aluminium air, lead acid etc), enabling long journeys to be undertaken in times comparable to those by internal combustion engined cars.

I think you should have read the comments the guy is a pillock he bought the wrong car for all the wrong reasons!! when he was pulled up about it he couldnt defend his corner. Idiots the world is full of them

[MtB]

Yes he didn’t realise the range was only half that claimed by the manufacturer. What a pillock!

[nb Innisfree]

Supercharging  isn't a prob if its only used for bulk charging, unlike lead acid its life is reduced by going to 100% SOC. Batts left for long periods on charge suffer.

EVs usually have a separate 12v batt for running ancillary stuff, main batt just for propulsion.  I think! 

[b0atman]

bring back the electric milk floats for london transport they could be modified as goods or taxis .

Park and ride would have a wind turbine as main charger.

Goods hubs would be a similar wind turbine charger  load transfer area .

[Graham Davis]

13 hours ago, bizzard said:

Yes friction power has very similar power charateristics as clockwork and battery power, the onlt difference would be the need for thousands of enormous giant hands dotted about to launch you and to give extra shoves along the way. But I like flywhhel power. Perhaps you read my plan way back on here about constructing enormous flywheels to drive alternators to supply the world with electricity in years to come. Massive flywheels of about 3 miles in diameter mounted in tandem, one in use whilst the other is being wound up to speed by hundreds of blokes with handles ready for when the other runs down.  There is also the possibility of of using what they called ''rubber duration'' in model aircraft parlance. The double rubber band duration method could quite easily adapt an ordinary car by attaching the rubber bands to the propshaft flange on the differential of a rear wheel drive car, the front of the bands could be attached to the starting handle at the front of the car to twist the rubber bands todeveloping their power, or by tornique method with a stick through a hatch in the floor.  Clockwork, friction and the rubber band methods of propulsion all are much more advantageous than battery power as you can keep youself going without keep charging batteries.  Either with turning motion of a nice key,  people to give you a good push off or the self application of a stick to twist and rewind the rubber bands.

Have a read about Parry People Movers, and the "train" that runs the shuttle between Stourbrdge Junction and Stourbridge Town,, Biz.
http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

Supercharging  isn't a prob if its only used for bulk charging, unlike lead acid its life is reduced by going to 100% SOC. Batts left for long periods on charge suffer.

EVs usually have a separate 12v batt for running ancillary stuff, main batt just for propulsion.  I think! 

Temperature is an even bigger enemy of lithium ion than it is of lead acid batteries, and charge current must be carefully controlled to prevent overheating.

Detailed information on charging Lion batteries is here.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

 

[bizzard]

18 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Have a read about Parry People Movers, and the "train" that runs the shuttle between Stourbrdge Junction and Stourbridge Town,, Biz.
http://www.parrypeoplemovers.com/

Looks very interesting, I'll have a closer read of that a bit later, thank you Graham.

[nb Innisfree]

42 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Temperature is an even bigger enemy of lithium ion than it is of lead acid batteries, and charge current must be carefully controlled to prevent overheating.

Detailed information on charging Lion batteries is here.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

 

Tesla has  an active batt cooling system which allows safe supercharging, the Nissan Leaf doesn't

 

[cuthound]

18 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Tesla has  an active batt cooling system which allows safe supercharging, the Nissan Leaf doesn't

 

Indeed, that is one reason why Tesla's cost so much!  

Lion battery fires can be self-sustaining. Tesla recommend quarrantining the area around one of their burning cars for 48 hours after it has been put out in case it reignites. I can see that going well when lots of EV's are using our motoway networks 

https://jalopnik.com/watch-volunteer-firefighters-in-austria-extinguish-a-fi-1819665352

Edited January 5, 2018 by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect

[cereal tiller]

5 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Indeed, that is one reason why Tesla's cost so much!  

Lion battery fires can be self-sustaining. Tesla recommend quarrantining the area around one of their burning cars for 48 hours after it has been put out in case it reignites. I can see that going  when lots of EV's are using our motoRay networks.

https://jalopnik.com/watch-volunteer-firefighters-in-austria-extinguish-a-fi-1819665352

A Few Emissions released by that operation,Good Job The Diesel Fire Engines were there!Tesla Powered Appliances may have had to stop for Recharge several times before arriving at the Inferno?

[furnessvale]

6 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

A Few Emissions released by that operation,Good Job The Diesel Fire Engines were there!Tesla Powered Appliances may have had to stop for Recharge several times before arriving at the Inferno?

According to Tesla, their new HGV will accelerate like a Ferrari, have a range of 500 miles and be cheaper than even US freight trains which are 1.5 miles long!

Seeing will be believing!

George

[nb Innisfree]

11 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

A Few Emissions released by that operation,Good Job The Diesel Fire Engines were there!Tesla Powered Appliances may have had to stop for Recharge several times before arriving at the Inferno?

Tesla artic has 500mile range

Beaten to it! 

Edited January 5, 2018 by nb Innisfree