Premium for extensively used moorings

[koukouvagia]

Back in February I received a letter warning me of price increases to my mooring fee.

I was asked for 1% above the inflation increase of 2.7% because "although the site has leisure status, it is extensively utilised for more than pure leisure use."

I emailed David Helliwell at CaRT and he asked me to produce proof of permanent residence on the land - which I duly did.  However, when I received my renewal notice I checked and discovered that I was still being charged to extra 1%.  Another email was needed to sort the matter out.

Is this intermediate status for a mooring - between leisure and live-aboard - something others have experienced?  

 

 

 

 

[Dave Payne]

Strange, surely its one or the other, chancing it maybe by CRT?

[WJM]

Your leisure mooring agreement should have a clear definition of how you may and may not use your mooring. Mine does. As long as you are compliant then I see no reason for them to levy additional fees.

 

[Starcoaster]

That seems deeply dodgy! Is it a CRT marina, or online moorings?

[alan_fincher]

2 minutes ago, Starcoaster said:

That seems deeply dodgy! Is it a CRT marina, or online moorings?

Online, offside, administered by "Waterside Moorings".

[Starcoaster]

DEEPLY DODGY.

[alan_fincher]

11 hours ago, WJM said:

Your leisure mooring agreement should have a clear definition of how you may and may not use your mooring. Mine does. As long as you are compliant then I see no reason for them to levy additional fees.

I no longer have a CRT or (formerly BW mooring, but when I did, (at two different sites), I don't believe the standard mooring agreement made very much specific reference to this at all.

Unless things have changed recently, or a site has its own specific local rules, I think CRT don't generally specify  what a "Leisure" mooring can and can't be used for, in terms of time spent aboard at the mooring.

11 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

Back in February I received a letter warning me of price increases to my mooring fee.

I was asked for 1% above the inflation increase of 2.7% because "although the site has leisure status, it is extensively utilised for more than pure leisure use."

I emailed David Helliwell at CaRT and he asked me to produce proof of permanent residence on the land - which I duly did.  However, when I received my renewal notice I checked and discovered that I was still being charged to extra 1%.  Another email was needed to sort the matter out.

Is this intermediate status for a mooring - between leisure and live-aboard - something others have experienced?  

 

 

 

 

Are you saying they are charging a different "per metre" rate to those who cannot produce evidence of a home address elsewhere from what they are charging those who can?

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Starcoaster said:

DEEPLY DODGY.

Is that by right said fred? 

[koukouvagia]

26 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Are you saying they are charging a different "per metre" rate to those who cannot produce evidence of a home address elsewhere from what they are charging those who can?

I'd put it slightly differently.  The site, being a popular one attracts a 3.7% increase, instead of the inflation only increase of 2.7%.  In my correspondence I received this assurance:

 If you will supply proof of primary residential address with a copy of a current council tax bill and utilities bill in the name of the berth holder we will discount the rate back to the inflation only rate.

This I did, so now I'm paying just the 2.7%.

 

 

[LEO]

Hi,

It's the 'thin end of the wedge', CRT gave various reasons for the difference when the new rates were announced, one being increased use of local facilities (waste disposal), but the 1% difference will ultimately rise (I suspect). This mooring site attracts one of the highest rates per metre on the GU (outside London).

[alan_fincher]

8 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

I'd put it slightly differently.  The site, being a popular one attracts a 3.7% increase, instead of the inflation only increase of 2.7%.  In my correspondence I received this assurance:

 If you will supply proof of primary residential address with a copy of a current council tax bill and utilities bill in the name of the berth holder we will discount the rate back to the inflation only rate.

This I did, so now I'm paying just the 2.7%.

 

Then this does sound deeply out of order.

If it were me, I would take it to the top, and raise it with Richard Parry.

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, LEO said:

This mooring site attracts one of the highest rates per metre on the GU (outside London).

But to be fair is fairly unusual and very much better than many others you might compare to.

For a start it is secure gated offside moorings, there being almost no other CRT controlled ones anywhere nearby.

It also has water and electric, (OK, I realise these were provided by moorer initiative, but you will not get that elsewhere).

Compared to local marina berths it is cheap, (and much nicer!), which is why it is so popular.

None of that though justifies a surcharge for those who cannot provide evidence of a land based home address, and that needs challenging with CRT.

[MtB]

On 30/06/2017 at 08:20, alan_fincher said:

Compared to local marina berths it is cheap, (and much nicer!), which is why it is so popular.

 

In which case may I enquire what the local marina charge for a full length berth?

It appears to me that in most areas in the south the differential between marina berths and CRT on-line moorings has all but disappeared. Certainly the case around here where marinas and CRT both charge roughly the same, a little north of £3k a year. 

[alan_fincher]

9 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

In which case may I enquire what the local marina charge for a full length berth?

It appears to me that in most areas in the south the differential between marina berths and CRT on-line moorings has all but disappeared. Certainly the case around here where marinas and CRT both charge roughly the same, a little north of £3k a year. 

Cow Roast Marina, (immediately opposite these moorings) would be £4452 for a 21 metre boat (non residential) or £5,583 for any length boat (priced by pontoon) residential.

I have been quoted around about £4,500 for other marinas in the area.  You certainly will not find a marina mooring anywhere nearby anything close to £3k (full length boat)

I don't know current rate on Cow Roast linear moorings, (presumably Koukouvagia can tell us), but it isn't going to come anywhere close to these numbers.

Even with a 3.7% increase the Cow Roast moorings will be very much cheaper than any other secure moorings anywhere nearby.

[MtB]

On 30/06/2017 at 09:01, alan_fincher said:

Cow Roast Marina, (immediately opposite these moorings) would be £4452 for a 21 metre boat (non residential) or £5,583 for any length boat (priced by pontoon) residential.

I have been quoted around about £4,500 for other marinas in the area.  You certainly will not find a marina mooring anywhere nearby anything close to £3k (full length boat)

I don't know current rate on Cow Roast linear moorings, (presumably Koukouvagia can tell us), but it isn't going to come anywhere close to these numbers.

Even with a 3.7% increase the Cow Roast moorings will be very much cheaper than any other secure moorings anywhere nearby.

Blimey, thanks for the info. Looks like I'm well out of touch with mooring prices then!

P.S. Wrong thread I know, but I just lit my Morco and I checked. I need to hold the button in for only five seconds to make the pilot light stay on. 

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

In which case may I enquire what the local marina charge for a full length berth?

It appears to me that in most areas in the south the differential between marina berths and CRT on-line moorings has all but disappeared. Certainly the case around here where marinas and CRT both charge roughly the same, a little north of £3k a year. 

Its a pound a foot per week here Mike so do the sums. I have a friend on his sixty footer moored slightly nearer to Kidlington paying 450 per month ( not residential ) so that 5400 a year. The CART moorers all pay different rates depending on when they bid and how long there and they virtualy never come up for grabs. I think the cheapest is way up at Cropredy marina if you like desolate windswept moorings no where near a pub!! with a portakabin office type venue.

[MtB]

On 30/06/2017 at 09:58, mrsmelly said:

Its a pound a foot per week here Mike so do the sums. I have a friend on his sixty footer moored slightly nearer to Kidlington paying 450 per month ( not residential ) so that 5400 a year. The CART moorers all pay different rates depending on when they bid and how long there and they virtualy never come up for grabs. I think the cheapest is way up at Cropredy marina if you like desolate windswept moorings no where near a pub!! with a portakabin office type venue.

 

Blimey I'm not surprised there are so many dumpers on the system these days then. 

I think I'll carry on CCing too. Even when I have a mooring I rarely use it. Its just for convenience when work gets dead busy. 

[Tuscan]

Does this mean that they offer a discount if you cruise extensively away from your mooring ?  After all they are planning to charge £150 a night if someone else uses it.

 

just over £3k in my marina in midlands very happy here

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Blimey I'm not surprised there are so many dumpers on the system these days then. 

I think I'll carry on CCing too. Even when I have a mooring I rarely use it. Its just for convenience when work gets dead busy. 

You do right. When I leave here I will cc again but as Im getting on a bit will go into a poxy marina for 3/4 winter months just to make things easier but it will be out and about as much as possible.

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

Cow Roast Marina, (immediately opposite these moorings) would be £4452 for a 21 metre boat (non residential) or £5,583 for any length boat (priced by pontoon) residential.

I have been quoted around about £4,500 for other marinas in the area.  You certainly will not find a marina mooring anywhere nearby anything close to £3k (full length boat)

I don't know current rate on Cow Roast linear moorings, (presumably Koukouvagia can tell us), but it isn't going to come anywhere close to these numbers.

Even with a 3.7% increase the Cow Roast moorings will be very much cheaper than any other secure moorings anywhere nearby.

 

It seems hard to find current mooring rates for CRT linear mooring sites adninistered by Waterside Moorings.  The price lists used to be easy to find, but no longer seem to appear.

For the year ending 31st March 2016, the permetre rate at Cow Roast was £134.28, which would have worked out at £2820 (rounded) annually for a full length 21 metre boat.  I don't know what increase they may have applied last year, but I'm guessing the current figure may well still be sub £3,000.  If so, then it is about 2/3rds of the marina pricing.

[MtB]

You're very lucky for there to be marinas with space around your way.

No chance down here. Waiting Lists R Us!

[alan_fincher]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

You're very lucky for there to be marinas with space around your way.

No chance down here. Waiting Lists R Us!

Cow Roast Marina (dead opposite the on-line moorings in question) claims to have "5 plus" non residential vacancies.....

Linky

There are certainly several vacancies at the much more modest (private) marina we are at further up the GU, although this is getting a bit decrepit, and arrangements are currently a bit muddled following a recent change of ownership.

As an aside, the problem with just about every other linear online CRT mooring on the Southern GU is that they are on the towpath, with zero security, and almost invariably no facilities.  Most have no suitable parking anywhere nearby. It is right in my view that Cow Roast linear moorings are priced higher than the tow-path ones, as they are offside with a lockable gate.

None of this justifies a discount for having a home address, (or a surcharge for not having one - depends which way you look at it, I guess).

Edited June 30, 2017 by alan_fincher

[matty40s]

23 hours ago, Dave Payne said:

Strange, surely its one or the other, chancing it maybe by CRT?

Looks to me like they are designating it a residential mooring with a discount for non residential boats.

I wonder if the Dacorum council have been informed of this change of status by CRT, or whether they're just getting the financial uplift without asking for planning........

[Alan de Enfield]

13 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

I no longer have a CRT or (formerly BW mooring, but when I did, (at two different sites), I don't believe the standard mooring agreement made very much specific reference to this at all.

Unless things have changed recently, or a site has its own specific local rules, I think CRT don't generally specify  what a "Leisure" mooring can and can't be used for, in terms of time spent aboard at the mooring.

Are you saying they are charging a different "per metre" rate to those who cannot produce evidence of a home address elsewhere from what they are charging those who can?

In 'our' marina to get a 'leisure berth' you must provide evidence of having a 'home address' (ie a council tax bill in your name) if you cannot (will not) then you either take  residential mooring, or, look elsewhere.

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In 'our' marina to get a 'leisure berth' you must provide evidence of having a 'home address' (ie a council tax bill in your name) if you cannot (will not) then you either take  residential mooring, or, look elsewhere.

I presume it is not a CRT run marina?

Anyway that is not as I'm currently understanding is going on at CRT's Cowroast linear moorings, is it?

CRT don't offer differential residential and non residential rates on such moorings, (or at least never have in the past). but by Jim's description have slapped on an extra 1% increase to all (?) renewals because they thing some are using it as a permanent residence.

Jim has appealed and got the 1% taken off, but there are presumably other non live-aboards there that will be invoiced the extra 1%.  Unless each and every one of them does what Jim has done, some will end up paying.

This is so out of line with how BW and CRT have operated such moorings, I find it staggering they are now doing this.  If I had all the facts in front of me, I would be going to Richard Parry to ask what was going on.  I think someone who is actively involved should.

To me it stinks.  If they can do it there, how long before it spreads to many other of their long term mooring sites, (assuming it has not already!).