Canopus and Sculptor

[MtB]

 

Hi Mike, is this Mr.Franklyn your next door neighbour ? The other (the real) Benjamin Franklin died in 1790, long before internets existance.

 

Peter.

 

 

Exactly. And this proves his point, that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.

 

(It was a JOKE!)

[Chertsey]

I went looking for some photos of Chertsey's undersides in an attempt to see shy she steers so well (but NOT in shallow water; no deep drafted boat will) and particularly why she steers so well in reverse, and I was surprised by how little balancing plate there is on the rudder.

 

That's not the original rudder, but it looks pretty similar to this one, which I am told was.

[hounddog]

Black painted anodes last so much longer, don't you find?

[Athy]

Black painted anodes last so much longer, don't you find?

Is that an anode? It looks tiny. But I can't think of anything else which it could be.

[roland elsdon]

Once trundled thaxted from Stoke to atherstone tossed on 20 tons of coal laying her down by the head. The difference in handling was shocking instead of wandering in reverse stopped in a dead straight line. However for some strange reason she stopped really well in most bridge holes without plan. Wenearly put a gunwale under getting it wrong beyond suttons taking the empty line and completely failed to stop when a cruiser thinking we were a little boat tried to race us for a bridge hole. Went through stoke bruerne tunnel with a candle in a bottle.. Happy days.

[Chertsey]

Is that an anode? It looks tiny. But I can't think of anything else which it could be.

I think it was, but too worn to be worth leaving unpainted; too small to be worth removing.

[Athy]

I think it was, but too worn to be worth leaving unpainted; too small to be worth removing.

Good explanation, yes - and Mr. Dog is indeed correct, it should be very long-lasting because it will no longer be sacrificial.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Athy

[ditchcrawler]

I went looking for some photos of Chertsey's undersides in an attempt to see shy she steers so well (but NOT in shallow water; no deep drafted boat will) and particularly why she steers so well in reverse, and I was surprised by how little balancing plate there is on the rudder.

 

That's not the original rudder, but it looks pretty similar to this one, which I am told was.

But look how far back your prop is

[MtB]

But look how far back your prop is

 

 

Eh? How far back IS it then, exactly? Looks perfectly normal to me...

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

Eh? How far back IS it then, exactly? Looks perfectly normal to me...

Compared to the other photos if this posting works

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/mark99_2010_01/IMG_5344_zps1bz5x0ai.jpg

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/uploads2/monthly_12_2016/post-22620-0-24018300-1482693495_thumb.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xjtxr6KieUs/TBlDpC4fT2I/AAAAAAAAAiA/HJxBsQxe4yw/s1600/img_9107.jpg

 

edit

Which it didnt

Edited January 15, 2017 by ditchcrawler

[alan_fincher]

Compared to the other photos if this posting works

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab10/mark99_2010_01/IMG_5344_zps1bz5x0ai.jpg

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/uploads2/monthly_12_2016/post-22620-0-24018300-1482693495_thumb.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xjtxr6KieUs/TBlDpC4fT2I/AAAAAAAAAiA/HJxBsQxe4yw/s1600/img_9107.jpg

 

edit

Which it didnt

 

The Roger Fuller one, I must admit is surprising.

 

There appears to be very little shaft showing, to the extent that although I'm sure it is an optical illusion, the bats look like they will barely clear the back of the swim.

 

The whole distance of end of swim to lead edge of rudder looks foreshortened compared to many, though I'm sure Roger knows what he is doing.

 

It is fairly obvious that each of the arrangements pictured is quite different from each other, and although I would not like to predict what difference each will make in practice, I would expect each to behave significantly differently.

 

I'm not that familiar with Woolwich rudders, but I'm surprised the leading edge on Chertsey's is not the full depth to match the main rudder. Were they all like this?

 

I'll see what I have for pictures of "Sickle" and "Flamingo" later. "Sickle's" rudder is definitely not original Northwich. "Flamingo's" may be more original, but we have only seen it docked once, and I think any pictures I have will already have had the prop removed from it, so the whole arrangement probably can't be seen.

[ChimneyChain]

This is Bicesters rudder which has got a full length leading edge

[bizzard]

I went looking for some photos of Chertsey's undersides in an attempt to see shy she steers so well (but NOT in shallow water; no deep drafted boat will) and particularly why she steers so well in reverse, and I was surprised by how little balancing plate there is on the rudder.

 

That's not the original rudder, but it looks pretty similar to this one, which I am told was.

Although the prop is sticking out a bit too far it does look nice and close to the leading edge of the rudder which should make the boat steer nicely astern, especially whilst kicking the stern across to straighten up. I would expect the tiller is more or less free of vibration too.

[BWM]

A much repaired original rudder on Hawkesbury for comparison. also has anodes near the prop which don't seem to have any effect on handling.

[alan_fincher]

"Sickle"

(Clearly not an original rudder)





Best I can immediately find for "Flamingo"

(Photos: Dave Ross)

[mark99]

The best my boat ever goes is when freshly blacked. Ie smooth hull below waterline.

 

The worst boat I steered for a whole week was a Hudson. Not because it was a Hudson because the rudder was out of alignment with tiller. I think it had been reversed hit something hard and had twisted.

[mark99]

The early Motor Ricky's had a thick post just in front of rudder adopted from steam boats. I think by the time Walkers got a large order for GU boats they had dropped the post but its hard to tell from the GU Ricky drawing I have.

 

 

From book Walkers of Ricky:

 

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

From book Walkers of Ricky:

 

That looks a tiny prop

[Chertsey]

Although the prop is sticking out a bit too far it does look nice and close to the leading edge of the rudder which should make the boat steer nicely astern, especially whilst kicking the stern across to straighten up. I would expect the tiller is more or less free of vibration too.

Goodness yes. I don't think I could put up with that.

 

The shape of the hull possibly helps with reversing?

 

BTW that anode would have been on for at least 25 years so had probably done all the good it was ever going to.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Chertsey

[Ray T]

Here is an interesting stern:

 

 

A more conventional one - Widgeon:

 

 

And

 

 

What intrigues me is that despite valiant efforts nothing has ever proved better than the original design. Is it a case of "If it ain't broke don't fix it?"

[ditchcrawler]

Here is an interesting stern:

 

Stern of Lee.jpg

 

A more conventional one - Widgeon:

 

DSCF2875.JPG

 

And

 

gallery_5000_522_121451.jpg

 

What intrigues me is that despite valiant efforts nothing has ever proved better than the original design. Is it a case of "If it ain't broke don't fix it?"

But has anyone ever tried a Shillings rudder on an old boat, if not we don't know if it would be better , worse or just the same.

[Ray T]

But has anyone ever tried a Shillings rudder on an old boat, if not we don't know if it would be better , worse or just the same.

 

A kitchen rudder has been tried:

 

 

e.g what one looks like:

 

[WotEver]

 

A kitchen rudder has been tried:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxY0yyMAhBs

 

e.g what one looks like:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-tpFo9C4zE

I remember that build. There was a lot of discussion about how well it would cope with detritus in the cut - did we ever find out?

[ditchcrawler]

 

A kitchen rudder has been tried:

 

 

e.g what one looks like:

 

Hardly an old traditional designed boat

[Ray T]

Hardly an old traditional designed boat

 

Perhaps you can come up with an example?

Edited January 15, 2017 by Ray T