Overstaying apparently

[Bewildered]

I have just had an email from C&RT to inform me that according to their sighting records I have been moored up in the same general area for more than 14 days.

I practice a martial art called Aikido and I have just found a club that is a short distance from the cut, they train on a Tuesday and Wednesday night, I have moored in the same location for the past 3 weeks so I can go and train with them. I haven't moored for more than a few days at a time and have cruised in between to other locations for a few days before returning, maybe 5-6 miles in either direction.

Now if the guy making the sighting records happens to cover this area on a Tuesday or Wednesday it may look as though I have been moored for 3 weeks.

Now as far as I can tell this isn't against the rules. I stay a few days then move on for a few days then return for a few days then move on again. I'm not hogging one spot, I'm traveling a reasonable distance and I'm not in one area for more than a week at a time. Where I moor to go training I have not spent more than 14 days here in the last month, probably 10 days over 3 separate occasions.

I was thinking of replying to their email to ask them to clarify "general area"

To my thinking an area would be from village to village rather than city to city.

I can understand if I spent 14 days in one spot then just bridge hopped then returned.

So I'm I doing something wrong or is it just that the records checker can't remember which way a boat was last facing?

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Keep a sailing log detailing where you are moored up. There used to be a rule that you couldn't return to the same place within x days.

[Guest]

I got a patrol notice once when the boat had been left on a 48 hr mooring for just half an hour or so. I don't think some of them know their posterior from their synovial hinge joint. I spoke to the local office on the phone and complained bitterly. Doubt if it did any good.

Keep a sailing log detailing where you are moored up. There used to be a rule that you couldn't return to the same place within x days.

We are gong to do that when we CC. Keeping diesel receipts from marinas too which put you in a certain location on a certain date.

[Bewildered]

Keep a sailing log detailing where you are moored up. There used to be a rule that you couldn't return to the same place within x days.

That would have worked well for working boats. Stop one day short of your destination you then can't moor in the same spot on your return trip?

[nicknorman]

I have just had an email from C&RT to inform me that according to their sighting records I have been moored up in the same general area for more than 14 days.

I practice a martial art called Aikido and I have just found a club that is a short distance from the cut, they train on a Tuesday and Wednesday night, I have moored in the same location for the past 3 weeks so I can go and train with them. I haven't moored for more than a few days at a time and have cruised in between to other locations for a few days before returning, maybe 5-6 miles in either direction.

Now if the guy making the sighting records happens to cover this area on a Tuesday or Wednesday it may look as though I have been moored for 3 weeks.

Now as far as I can tell this isn't against the rules. I stay a few days then move on for a few days then return for a few days then move on again. I'm not hogging one spot, I'm traveling a reasonable distance and I'm not in one area for more than a week at a time. Where I moor to go training I have not spent more than 14 days here in the last month, probably 10 days over 3 separate occasions.

I was thinking of replying to their email to ask them to clarify "general area"

To my thinking an area would be from village to village rather than city to city.

I can understand if I spent 14 days in one spot then just bridge hopped then returned.

So I'm I doing something wrong or is it just that the records checker can't remember which way a boat was last facing?

I think the simplest answer is, rather than asking us if you are doing anything wrong, send your recent movement info to CRT and ask THEM if you are doing anything wrong. To me, it doesn't seem as though you are but what I or anyone else on here thinks is not really relevant.

[ditchcrawler]

I have just had an email from C&RT to inform me that according to their sighting records I have been moored up in the same general area for more than 14 days.

I practice a martial art called Aikido and I have just found a club that is a short distance from the cut, they train on a Tuesday and Wednesday night, I have moored in the same location for the past 3 weeks so I can go and train with them. I haven't moored for more than a few days at a time and have cruised in between to other locations for a few days before returning, maybe 5-6 miles in either direction.

Now if the guy making the sighting records happens to cover this area on a Tuesday or Wednesday it may look as though I have been moored for 3 weeks.

Now as far as I can tell this isn't against the rules. I stay a few days then move on for a few days then return for a few days then move on again. I'm not hogging one spot, I'm traveling a reasonable distance and I'm not in one area for more than a week at a time. Where I moor to go training I have not spent more than 14 days here in the last month, probably 10 days over 3 separate occasions.

I was thinking of replying to their email to ask them to clarify "general area"

To my thinking an area would be from village to village rather than city to city.

I can understand if I spent 14 days in one spot then just bridge hopped then returned.

So I'm I doing something wrong or is it just that the records checker can't remember which way a boat was last facing?

 

I have just had an email from C&RT to inform me that according to their sighting records I have been moored up in the same general area for more than 14 days.

I practice a martial art called Aikido and I have just found a club that is a short distance from the cut, they train on a Tuesday and Wednesday night, I have moored in the same location for the past 3 weeks so I can go and train with them. I haven't moored for more than a few days at a time and have cruised in between to other locations for a few days before returning, maybe 5-6 miles in either direction.

Now if the guy making the sighting records happens to cover this area on a Tuesday or Wednesday it may look as though I have been moored for 3 weeks.

Now as far as I can tell this isn't against the rules. I stay a few days then move on for a few days then return for a few days then move on again. I'm not hogging one spot, I'm traveling a reasonable distance and I'm not in one area for more than a week at a time. Where I moor to go training I have not spent more than 14 days here in the last month, probably 10 days over 3 separate occasions.

I was thinking of replying to their email to ask them to clarify "general area"

To my thinking an area would be from village to village rather than city to city.

I can understand if I spent 14 days in one spot then just bridge hopped then returned.

So I'm I doing something wrong or is it just that the records checker can't remember which way a boat was last facing?

Just ring them up and tell them what you have been doing, as you said yourself on face value it looks as if you have been there for more than 3 weeks.

[pophops]

A paragraph from the guidance to boaters without a home mooring seems to be relevant.

 

Importantly, short trips within the same neighbourhood, and shuttling backwards and forwards along a small part of the network do NOT meet the legal requirement for navigation throughout the period of the licence.

 

​As suggested, ring up and explain your movements and see what they say.

[Guest]

Speaking to CRT does seem like a good idea, but from my experience after getting an unwarranted patrol notice, I wish you luck.

[Bewildered]

A paragraph from the guidance to boaters without a home mooring seems to be relevant.

 

Importantly, short trips within the same neighbourhood, and shuttling backwards and forwards along a small part of the network do NOT meet the legal requirement for navigation throughout the period of the licence.

 

​As suggested, ring up and explain your movements and see what they say.

So what is the difference between a short trip and one that complies with the license? Unless an actual distance is specified how can one tell if they are complying or not?

[Paul C]

Speaking to CRT does seem like a good idea, but from my experience after getting an unwarranted patrol notice, I wish you luck.

 

Why, what happened?

So what is the difference between a short trip and one that complies with the license? Unless an actual distance is specified how can one tell if they are complying or not?

 

Different place

[Bewildered]

 

Different place

I can tell I was in a different place as the local pubs had different names???

[bizzard]

I agree with nicknorman. Send Cart a recent movement.

[dmr]

Do NOT seek to clarify "General Area" and the CC rules, it will be a waste of your time and energy, and a waste of CaRTs limited resources.

Send an email explaining that you had moved between the sightings and then shrug it off.

Keep the email short and firm but polite and do not include any unnecessary details.

 

The boat sighting regime is very crude (and it does not record direction) and is designed to detect the really bad offenders who never move. It will always produce false positives for people like you (and me) who move often but sometimes pass through the same place several times.

 

We had a similar email in the summer even though we had cruised almost 100 miles between the two sightings.

 

A few weeks later I bumped into a "very senior" CaRT man and complained about this unfair email. He looked a bit exasperated as I imagine he hears this stuff all the time, then said something like "the boat checking is very simple but you wouldn't want us to spend any more of our money on boat sighting would you). He was right.

 

...................Dave

Edited December 15, 2016 by dmr

[Bewildered]

I agree with nicknorman. Send Cart a recent movement.

Wish you had mentioned that before I'd made a trip to the elsan

[Athy]

A paragraph from the guidance to boaters without a home mooring seems to be relevant.

 

Importantly, short trips within the same neighbourhood, and shuttling backwards and forwards along a small part of the network do NOT meet the legal requirement for navigation throughout the period of the licence.

 

​As suggested, ring up and explain your movements and see what they say.

This is where CART can be annoying through their persistent vagueness. What is "the same neighbourhood"? What is "a small part of the network"? For example, when I boat from Cropredy to Banbury (4 miles, 3 locks) I feel as if I have gone to a different and quite distant place. They aren't in the same neighbourhood, that's for sure. They might say that that's only a small part of the network; so what would be a big one? Cropredy to Snarestone?

They stubbornly refuse to stipulate actual distances. Why not say "You must move two miles", or whatever distance they think satisfactory. I am not a CCer, but if I was, I'd perhaps feel that I was playing a game whose rules were known only to my opponent.

I can tell I was in a different place as the local pubs had different names

I agree with nicknorman. Send Cart a recent movement.

Neatly packed in a Jiffy Bag?

 

 

The boat sighting regime is very crude (and it does not record direction)

Would it be so difficult to tell CART's boat-spotters to write down the direction in which each boat is facing?

[Paul C]

The whole thing is a non-issue really, but requires that you actually keep a semi-coherent log and don't take the piss (ie don't have to start making up places you've visited). Their data logging system is extremely crude, to the point of being almost useless. For some reason or another, they've decided to set the "trigger point" so that it also triggers many false positives. All you have to do is keep a log which is slightly better than theirs, and since they've set the bar so low its not a difficult task. Your slightly better log renders theirs useless. Of course, it also causes problems for the "I know my rights" and "offended on behalf of" crowd, but that's just a downstream consequence of the world not being perfect and CRT's budget/monitoring capability not being limitless.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Paul C

[Bewildered]

I think the rules would be simplified, and would suit most boaters, if they said. You must move from canalside pub A to canalside pub B then onto pub C before you can have another pint in pub A. The rest of the alphahicbet would be at your hic disgression hic.

[Athy]

I think the rules would be simplified, and would suit most boaters, if they said. You must move from canalside pub A to canalside pub B then onto pub C before you can have another pint in pub A. The rest of the alphahicbet would be at your hic disgression hic.

...ensuring of course that you don't set off for Pub B after you've been imbibing in Pub A!

[Jerra]

They stubbornly refuse to stipulate actual distances. Why not say "You must move two miles", or whatever distance they think satisfactory.

 

Of course they don't because within a nanosecond of saying it somebody would be screaming "you can't do that the law doesn't permit you to".

[dmr]

Would it be so difficult to tell CART's boat-spotters to write down the direction in which each boat is facing?

 

Probably needs a whole lot of software changes but its not needed. If the successive visits where done in such a way as to have the boat facing the same direction each time and this was recorded then it would be even more damning for the poor boater.

 

If we moor for a few days in a pretty spot and near a winding hole then we will sometimes wind on arrival and departure to optimise the view out of the window. CaRT would not know if we were coming or going.

 

................Dave

[Athy]

 

CaRT would not know if we were coming or going.

 

................Dave

To paraphrase Nigel Molesworth, "By a grate act of heroism he hold back the merry quip wich rise to his lips".

[Señor Chris]

I was sent the same letter a few weeks ago even though the canal is closed in both directions and the pound I am moored in had been completely drained.

 

I still can't decide whether their level of incompetence is worrying or comforting.

[Guest]

 

Why, what happened?

 

Different place

I was passed from pillar to post, then eventually spoke to the organ grinder (can't remember his name.) He more or less said "what do you want me to do about it?" I poined out that I would like those responsible to know the difference between a boat that had overstyed, and one that hadn't. The guy just struck me as one of those that are keeping their seat warm until they cash in their pension. As my mate says: RIP, Retired In Post.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Guest

[pearley]

I'm surprised you had an email as I thought that a text was the first notification of overstaying. When we had this last March at the Pumphouse, Oldbury, I simply phoned the number given in the text and told them the sighting was incorrect in that we had been 10 days elsewhere. As the OP, I assumed that checker only came every 14 days, saw us in the same place, and assumed we had overstayed. On phoning they said they would amend the records.

[Horace42]

This is where CART can be annoying through their persistent vagueness. What is "the same neighbourhood"? What is "a small part of the network"? For example, when I boat from Cropredy to Banbury (4 miles, 3 locks) I feel as if I have gone to a different and quite distant place. They aren't in the same neighbourhood, that's for sure. They might say that that's only a small part of the network; so what would be a big one? Cropredy to Snarestone?

They stubbornly refuse to stipulate actual distances. Why not say "You must move two miles", or whatever distance they think satisfactory. I am not a CCer, but if I was, I'd perhaps feel that I was playing a game whose rules were known only to my opponent.

Neatly packed in a Jiffy Bag?

Doubt if it has much effect. They'll only go through the motions.

 

Would it be so difficult to tell CART's boat-spotters to write down the direction in which each boat is facing?