Bolinder Boating through locks

[matty40s]

As an aside

 

How many bolinders are about? In canal boats.

Are there i10 or 20?

Theyre not in the 100's

Good discussion about it here

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31048&hl=bolinder

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Good discussion about it here

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31048&hl=bolinder

Thanks, have skimmed through it and will go back and read properly tomorrow.

[Jrtm]

I will have towy on that list one day if i can con the wife.

[X Alan W]

Funny enough there is or at least was a bollard in Danes hold where we strapped to it boat carried on with bollard attached.

You want to listen to a semi gardener or seffle on tickover over they sound like they will stop.

 

Unreliable?? I would love to see a bmc after 40 years of hard working years + the years of not so hard working and see if it's still as reliable. They do go wrong don't get me wrong but there victorian engendered so there built big bulky and simple although I don't think I'll be much good after that many years of working!

How do think that a "Seffle" is more likely to stop when it's governed & fires every stroke when a "Bolinder" that by design when running off load misses on 1 stoke out of every 4 & has to rotate in the opposite direction to produce backward motion So in that process it has TO STOP " Seffle" you just close throttle let revs die to idle & select reverse gear.The "Seffle" I boated behind for 14years both load carrying & hotel boating &it never stopped on idle unless for a reason ( prop fouled etc.) cold running cut outs could be overcome by sprayer adjustment.from the steering position, this could be detected from the exhaust note & sorted before cut outs.

Edited November 12, 2016 by X Alan W

[koukouvagia]

The "Seffle" I boated behind for 14years both load carrying & hotel boating &it never stopped on idle unless for a reason ( prop fouled etc.) cold running cut outs could be overcome by sprayer adjustment.from the steering position, this could be detected from the exhaust note & sorted before cut outs.

I completely agree. I had our Seffle for 10 years and the most trouble I had with it was lighting the blowlamp and sometimes the engine started backwards.

 

As a matter of interest do Bolinders have a sprayer control?

 

For those not familiar with the concept and to elaborate on Alan's post, with a Seffle the diesel can be injected into the cylinder either as a conical spray which hits the walls of the ignition chamber or as a thin jet. When idling, the sprayer is adjusted so that the diesel is ignited by contact with the hot walls; when under load, the diesel does not come into contact with the walls and so works as a full diesel engine.

To quote the Seffle manual:

"The setting of the sprayer may seem unnecessarily complicated to a beginner, but he will soon find that this is a very valuable means of making the engine run to the best advantage. It takes a very short time to learn how to manipulate the sprayer, simply by keeping in mind that if the sprayer is too wide open, with a light load the running will be irregular, and that if it not kept sufficiently open, with a heavy load, the engine develops insufficient power and gives off a smoky exhaust."

 

I do miss my Seffle!

[max's son]

30 hp Bolinder engine from adder back in the sixties

 

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Too much fuel and it would backfire and break your ankle, the thirty horse model could throw you against the cabin wall, or if you accepted the advice of the old boatmen you opened the double engine room doors and were shot out for a soft landing in the canal.

 

One of dads tales was about Bringing “Adder” through Wolverhampton when the water flow failed with leaves sucked through the filter. they had to remove the cylinder head and scour out all the water ports. To keep the cylinder clean they stuffed it with a large sack. By the time they finished reasembling the engine it was dark and just as Eric lit the blowlamp dad asked if he had removed the sack.”I thought you had done it” was the response, “Oh well here goes” After an extra ten minutes on the blow lamp he gave it a mighty kick, followed by a massive bang and Wolverhampton saw its first atomic cloud emerging from the vertical exhaust pipe. It was another twelve months before they opened it again.

 

Dad had a 9hp one which was mounted on railway sleepers which I remember hi starting and it bounced round the garage floor

and great sound

[Jrtm]

I was referring to the very slow but even bonk of a seffle or gardener at tickover. It always sound like it's going to miss a bonk and die as its very slow compared to a bolinder tickover.

 

Underway they both sound great

30 hp Bolinder engine from adder back in the sixties

 

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Too much fuel and it would backfire and break your ankle, the thirty horse model could throw you against the cabin wall, or if you accepted the advice of the old boatmen you opened the double engine room doors and were shot out for a soft landing in the canal.

 

One of dads tales was about Bringing Adder through Wolverhampton when the water flow failed with leaves sucked through the filter. they had to remove the cylinder head and scour out all the water ports. To keep the cylinder clean they stuffed it with a large sack. By the time they finished reasembling the engine it was dark and just as Eric lit the blowlamp dad asked if he had removed the sack.I thought you had done it was the response, Oh well here goes After an extra ten minutes on the blow lamp he gave it a mighty kick, followed by a massive bang and Wolverhampton saw its first atomic cloud emerging from the vertical exhaust pipe. It was another twelve months before they opened it again.

 

Dad had a 9hp one which was mounted on railway sleepers which I remember hi starting and it bounced round the garage floor

and great sound

What happened to the 30? As I have only seen the ports tug one.

[Jrtm]

Yes the oil rod controls the fuel spray pattern.

 

Cold or tick over shut makes a light mist cone.

 

As you push rod in it opens up cone gets smaller very quickly and you start to get less mist and more of a drip in the middle the more you open the drip turns into a strait jet and no cone

 

Dose opposite as you pull back and shut valve.

 

Its very hit and miss one day it wont like you touching the oil rod others it wants it right in other days you can do what you like and it will run happy others it will have its time of the month.

 

I would always refute to a bolly as having a second wife. And every day it will ask you if my bum looks big in this.

[IanD]

And when Bolinders do stall (bonk...pause....pause.....pause......pause.......pause..........sigh) you can end up with a lot of fuel in the cylinder, so next time you fire it up there's a bang you can hear a quarter of a mile away and a sheet of flame several feet long out of the exhaust. Has caused several memorable mishaps, the tin of beans event still makes me chuckle...

[Jrtm]

Yes it's when you catch the unexpected walker going past he he he he.

 

You can let the fuel out by opening the compression valve and turning over a few times often stops this. Although is a very useless devise if you cant stop it running as it will happly run with this open once it's going.

 

But a nice bang atleast makes sure everyone in the nearest mile is awake.

[X Alan W]

I completely agree. I had our Seffle for 10 years and the most trouble I had with it was lighting the blowlamp and sometimes the engine started backwards.

 

As a matter of interest do Bolinders have a sprayer control?

 

For those not familiar with the concept and to elaborate on Alan's post, with a Seffle the diesel can be injected into the cylinder either as a conical spray which hits the walls of the ignition chamber or as a thin jet. When idling, the sprayer is adjusted so that the diesel is ignited by contact with the hot walls; when under load, the diesel does not come into contact with the walls and so works as a full diesel engine.

To quote the Seffle manual:

"The setting of the sprayer may seem unnecessarily complicated to a beginner, but he will soon find that this is a very valuable means of making the engine run to the best advantage. It takes a very short time to learn how to manipulate the sprayer, simply by keeping in mind that if the sprayer is too wide open, with a light load the running will be irregular, and that if it not kept sufficiently open, with a heavy load, the engine develops insufficient power and gives off a smoky exhaust."

 

I do miss my Seffle!

Argh Mr Owl You should have the " wuzzers" model of " Seffle" glow plug & air /compression start non of his setting fire to the engine "ole" with the blowlamp

[Tuscan]

Used to love laying in the back cabin listening to Gary fire up the Seffle in Lily when moored at Bulborne - must have been 20 years ago now .

[X Alan W]

Used to love laying in the back cabin listening to Gary fire up the Seffle in Lily when moored at Bulborne - must have been 20 years ago now .

That was the one that used to be mine Cant' for the life of me understand why he took out the "Seffle "to replace it with a less HP Bolinder although it does have a gearbox.( do you know the reason for the change) He seemed a bit put out when I had a go on it in 2002'ish& he asked what I thought of LILY at that time & I said I much preferred it "Seffle" powered

Edited November 13, 2016 by X Alan W

[Tuscan]

No idea, I just assumed he preferred the irregular beat of the bolinder ?I loved the sound of the seffle and perfect smoke rings it created.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Tuscan

[Up-Side-Down]

They made good time Mike, they were up top of Buckby before the closure.

Cracking pair of boats and a lovely couple.

 

Anyone know anything about the butty in this pair, Clara?

[Jrtm]

The butty is i beleive a wooden station boat think lms. Could be wrong but thought I was.

[Laurence Hogg]

The butty is i beleive a wooden station boat think lms. Could be wrong but thought I was.

 

I doubt that is anywhere near the truth. There are no wooden LMS or Station boats left to my knowledge.

[matty40s]

 

Anyone know anything about the butty in this pair, Clara?

Its an old tar boat.

[stagedamager]

I thought she was a Shroppie butty?

[Jrtm]

 

I doubt that is anywhere near the truth. There are no wooden LMS or Station boats left to my knowledge.

From hnbc.org.uk site she's an ex lms butty number 8 and former Shropshire Union 591

[Up-Side-Down]

From hnbc.org.uk site she's an ex lms butty number 8 and former Shropshire Union 591

 

Thanks for these responses re Clara's origins.

[Ian Mac]

 

It was common once to see (and hear) pairs of boats coming up and down the Marsworth Flight. The Bollinder's single hot bulb engines in the early motor boats needed to be reversed to give any braking effort.

 

Since sometimes the engine would go out on the change, especially when running cold in locks, it was a wiser choice to strap the boats in. Often even boats with gearboxes would use this method as it's quicker, and gets the steerer on the side of the lock where they need to be.

 

Very interesting that they are strapping of the engine room rings, rather than the back studs. On broad locks I take a longer strapping line of the outer back stud, round the mitre post head and then a turn around the beam just beyond the handle, then slip the rope till the boat has almost stopped, besides stoping the boat it shuts the gate. Just as the gate is closing, one has to flick the rope off the mitre post so the rope does not become trapped! The boat should be nearly touching the bottom gates by this time. If three handed one they continues down to the bottom gate and when the butty is in place opens the paddles, watching out to make sure the butties rope is out of the way of the Mitres.

The bigger problem is going uphill where most of the check posts are now missing and the replacement dollies are not up to much :-(

[mykaskin]

Very interesting that they are strapping of the engine room rings, rather than the back studs. On broad locks I take a longer strapping line of the outer back stud, round the mitre post head and then a turn around the beam just beyond the handle, then slip the rope till the boat has almost stopped, besides stoping the boat it shuts the gate. Just as the gate is closing, one has to flick the rope off the mitre post so the rope does not become trapped! The boat should be nearly touching the bottom gates by this time. If three handed one they continues down to the bottom gate and when the butty is in place opens the paddles, watching out to make sure the butties rope is out of the way of the Mitres.

The bigger problem is going uphill where most of the check posts are now missing and the replacement dollies are not up to much :-(

 

One of the main reason he would be using the back end line is that most of the strapping posts suitable for use off the dollies or anser have vanished, so normally not worth the risk...

 

I know strapping on the gate is common on narrow locks, but I've never seen anyone really use it on the wide canals - however I often use lines to shut gates when single handing.

 

Mike

[Jrtm]

Most strap posts are in the wrong place for a traditional engine room and cabin. The prob is as more boats have reliable reversing engines and the knowledge in waterway maintenance (now crt) is less and that alot of boats are now shorter means they get removed or put back in wrong places.

 

I offen find the wide locks dont have big enough posts on the lock gate to use unlike alot of narrow locks.