Darn Gas Holes

[christophert]

Hi all,

I thought it was high time I painted inside the gas locker area thing ... whatever it's called. So I took out all the stuff from there to find a lot of rust at the bulkhead thingy ... the back part. So, I got stuck in with a scraper -which went through the metal at the back bottom!

After a little head scratching, I come to the conclusion water had not been getting in through the top hatch door but through the gas holes on the sides, and hasn't been able to drain out as the gas holes are a good inch and half above the floor! hence trapping water every time the boat takes a journey. Looking at another boat, the gas holes are level with the floor, which is how it should be.

 

Obviously blocking the holes and drilling new ones higher up won't let any gas that accumulates escape out.

 

Has anyone else had this problem?

I can see my water tank through the rotted holes! I'm worried how much water has gotten under my floor.

[Drayke]

This has to be a BSS failure on all counts. Drain holes need to be level with the base of locker, and as for the holes it sounds like you need a new floor.

Fred

[christophert]

This has to be a BSS failure on all counts. Drain holes need to be level with the base of locker, and as for the holes it sounds like you need a new floor.

Fred

The floor's pretty rock solid. It's the back plate that has suffered. I don't understand why they didn't put the holes level. The problem would not have been created if they had did so

[Drayke]

OK. You will still need to get this sorted, not an easy job, as not only a BSS fail but you will now get water in the bilges when you move your boat.

Have you had a recent BSS inspection as the examiner should have picked this up.

Edited October 28, 2016 by F DRAYKE

[Martin Megson]

I would recommend getting a. competent boat yard to repair the gas locker, probably by welding in new steel where needed, and cutting the drain holes down to the level of the base.

[alan_fincher]

I can see my water tank through the rotted holes! I'm worried how much water has gotten under my floor.

 

You should be far more worried that any gas that manages to leak from any of the gas plumbing in there will end up under ypur floor.

 

Specifically you should worry that if you ever use a cylinder where the face that the regulator end is supposed to seal into is damaged, that lots of gas will undoubtedly end up under your floor.

 

A rusted bilge is a minor worry compared to the explosion you could end up with!

[Alan de Enfield]

Advice I received from a BSS examiner (when seeing a rusty-bottomed gas locker) was to put in an inch or two of concrete in the bottom, which will :

1) Brings the floor up to the drain hole levels

2) Should reduce the water ingress problems

3) Will stop the floor rusting away so that water & gas can escape into the bilges

4) Give you a BSS' pass'

[bigcol]

Advice I received from a BSS examiner (when seeing a rusty-bottomed gas locker) was to put in an inch or two of concrete in the bottom, which will :

1) Brings the floor up to the drain hole levels

2) Should reduce the water ingress problems

3) Will stop the floor rusting away so that water & gas can escape into the bilges

4) Give you a BSS' pass'

 

Sounds good to me

That's what I was thinking

Raise the floor up to the level of holes

Job done!

[MtB]

Advice I received from a BSS examiner (when seeing a rusty-bottomed gas locker) was to put in an inch or two of concrete in the bottom, which will :

1) Brings the floor up to the drain hole levels

2) Should reduce the water ingress problems

3) Will stop the floor rusting away so that water & gas can escape into the bilges

4) Give you a BSS' pass'

 

 

But as the OP keeps saying, it isn't the floor that's rusty.

 

Read the thread before commenting!!

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

But as the OP keeps saying, it isn't the floor that's rusty

Read the thread before commenting!!

 

Boy - you are prickly today.

 

But as the OP keeps saying I got stuck in with a scraper -which went through the metal at the back bottom!

Implying where the 'back joined the bottom', and where it could be covered by a couple of inches of concrete.

[MtB]

 

Boy - you are prickly today.

 

But as the OP keeps saying I got stuck in with a scraper -which went through the metal at the back bottom!

Implying where the 'back joined the bottom', and where it could be covered by a couple of inches of concrete.

 

 

Bloody NOT prickly!!!

 

Ok, point accepted.

[Keeping Up]

If you put concrete in the bottom of the locker to raise the floor, how can you be certain that the concrete to metal interface will be watertight? I have a vision of a small amount of water getting between the two, then freezing during the winter to separate them completely so that the whole base area beneath the concrete goes rusty.

 

I need to raise my locker floor to keep it above the water line, as my boat will sit lower in the water after its overplating next month, and the concrete idea occurred to me but is rather worrying for this reason.

[Cheshire cat]

Concrete sounds like a bodge to me. Sometimes bodges are acceptable but this is safety related. Also, if the concrete is not successful replacing it will be a pain.

[alan_fincher]

Advice I received from a BSS examiner (when seeing a rusty-bottomed gas locker) was to put in an inch or two of concrete in the bottom, which will :

1) Brings the floor up to the drain hole levels

2) Should reduce the water ingress problems

3) Will stop the floor rusting away so that water & gas can escape into the bilges

4) Give you a BSS' pass'

 

I'm very surprised this came from a BSS examiner, as I have had a long conversation with one who thought concrete in a gas locker was a very bad idea.

 

Rightly he argued that if the boat takes a few bumps, you can more or less guarantee there will not be a fully gas tight seal between the concrete and the steel, and that LPG will find its way down any gap. If you have concreted over anything other than a fully gas resistant locker, it will then find its way through any holes and into the boat.

 

Before even contemplating this, I would check very carefully with the BSS office.

 

Note also that depending on how deep the locker is before you start, it may well then not hold a full height bottle if you raise the floor level with concrete.

[MtB]

Concrete sounds like a bodge to me. Sometimes bodges are acceptable but this is safety related. Also, if the concrete is not successful replacing it will be a pain.

 

 

I agree. It's not a permanent fix. A monumental bodge in fact. I suspect it was only being put forward as a way to squeeze the boat through a BSS inspection 'on the day'.

[twbm]

Would it be feasible to clean off, apply anti rust, raise the floor with self levelling cement for example and then repair with glass fibre matting?

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I'm very surprised this came from a BSS examiner, as I have had a long conversation with one who thought concrete in a gas locker was a very bad idea.

 

 

 

Which reinforces the message that several people on here repeat : There is no consistency in the interpretation of the BSS rules and the examiners make them up on 'the fly'.

(The same situation occurs in other places)

 

It was the same examiner that failed another of my boats for not having an RCD, yet passed several items that I knew were definite failures.

 

You can either choose an examiner to get your boat 'legal', or you can choose one to get your boat 'safe', over time you get to know which ones are which.

[blackrose]

I completely agree with what Alan has said. You only need a minor separation of concrete and steel and then it's no longer gas tight. Also water will be drawn into the crack by capillary action creating a rust trap that you can do nothing about unless you are prepared to break up the concrete with a lump hammer and cold chisel and get it all out. So pouring in cement is not only a bodge, but potentially a very troublesome bodge.

 

I used to have a Springer with poured concrete ballast. Water in the bilges had got under the ballast, so I know from personal experience that it's a bad idea.

Edited October 29, 2016 by blackrose

[BruceinSanity]

I agree. It's not a permanent fix. A monumental bodge in fact. I suspect it was only being put forward as a way to squeeze the boat through a BSS inspection 'on the day'.

You've also increased the load on a known to be failing floor. I have a vision of a heavy bump coming onto a lock or something and the whole floor detaching, dumping the contents of the locker into the bilge.

[Horace42]

Are you sure the water gets in through to drain hole? It might be through the lid or doors of the gas locker?. Even so that won't cure the floor being too.low. I support the those previous posts who advocate raising the floor with a layer concete. as already said make sure the bottle will fit afterwards.

First of all, mend the holes in the floor, old fashioned pot menders will do - ie. nut & bolt and two washers, but with a rubber washer as well -if it is a big hole then you might need to cut a metal plate and use 2 or 3 bolts - and that will make the locker gas tight.

Go over the whole base with a heavy spike to find more holes/weak spots and fix them as well..

You could paint the floor with a heavy bitumastic compound. Then pour in concrete/mortar. If you are worried about leaks between to mortar and steel, go over the joint with a good quality mastic Apart from the gap there is nowhere for the gas to go except overboard.

 

[BargeeSpud]

I had a water ingress problem in the gas locker on my first boat, built on a 40' Arcrite shell, the floor was below the waterline. Fortunately, the holes extended to above the waterline, so allowed any gas to vent as intended. The problem I had to solve was to raise the bottles above the water so they didn't rust, which I did by laying some pieces of that plastic duckboard you can buy until the bottles sat above the water. Fortunately, there was still enough height in the locker to accommodate it all!

[Murflynn]

 

You could paint the floor with a heavy bitumastic compound. Then pour in concrete/mortar. If you are worried about leaks between to mortar and steel, go over the joint with a good quality mastic Apart from the gap there is nowhere for the gas to go except overboard.

 

agree

[john6767]

Concrete sounds like a massive bodge as others have said, and I am really surprised that BBS are recommending that, I would have guessed that would be a fail, but shows what I know.

 

I can't see that is either very hard or particularly time consuming (expensive) to get a boat yard the weld in new steel where it is corroded, and then cut the vents to the correct level.

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Forget concrete, I sealed my gas locker floor - get your friendly roofing contractor to come along with his pitch heater, pour some buckets of molten pitch into locker, it self levels and carry it up the walls for a complete job. I also added some mineral roofing felt to wear areas for good measure.

 

Job done!

[FadeToScarlet]

If you had a big skin fitting got a sink 1" from the water line, would you gaffer tape the hose on, or seal it on properly with multiple clips?

 

Why take a risk with anything that might not work? The consequences of anything less than a 100% complete repair are pretty serious. Get it welded up properly! It'll be more expensive than pitch or concrete or GRP but it'll work and go on working.