Survey results - a leap in the dark?

[Iain_S]

It'll be installed in the calorifier.

 

Does the boat have a shore power connection? That's the only sensible way of running an immersion heater, IMO. (unless you have a Travelpower, or really big alternator, invertor and battery bank.)

[Froggy]

It'll be installed in the calorifier.

 

Does the boat have a shore power connection? That's the only sensible way of running an immersion heater, IMO. (unless you have a Travelpower, or really big alternator, invertor and battery bank.)

 

Yes, the boat has a shoreline connector.

[chubby]

If the boat has a shoreline connection then the immersion coil on the calorifier / hot water tank is likely to be the best way to get hot water . Therefore id suggest testing it before you buy the boat . Hopefully it 'll sort that issue out and allow you to concentrate on fixing or replacing the stove which i suggest is the next biggest issue .

If the boat is to be permantly plugged in or mostly plugged into a shoreline then do make sure that a galvanic isolater is fitted to prevent any further hull corrosion .

If one is not fitted already then it can be added to your to do list & i 'd put it high up the list . You can buy a type that plugs in between the shoreline connection and the boats electrical connection if you don t want to faff around with wires and its completely DIY .

cheers

Edited October 31, 2016 by chubby

[Sea Dog]

One thing i've just remembered from the boat ad: it describes, in addition to the Eberspacher, an immersion heater and states 'not tested'. Could this be a way of saying that the Eberspacher is non-functional, or is this a separate device (calorifier)?

OK, how's about a quick explanation of a typical system like yours in more familiar terms and then look at the immersion heater issue?

 

The Eberspacher heats the domestic hot water by pumping heated water from the central heating circuit through a sealed coil (usually the upper one) inside the hot water tank (or 'calorifier') - the fresh water and the heating circuit water don't mix. There's a similar lower coil heated by the engine coolant when you're running. This means that you get the top half a tank of hot water by running the Eberspacher (upper coil) and a full one from the engine (lower coil). The immersion heater is a separate 240v electric heating element, usually supplied by shore supply only. So, you have 3 independent methods of heating water.

 

The immersion heater is probably a 2kw element, so it'll use 2 units of electricity per hour of use for hot water only, but it will have a thermostat so it will cut out when the tank is up to temperature. The Eber will cost about 1/2 litre of diesel per hour to run, but that will also heat your radiators. If it's well set up, it should take an hour or so for half a tank of water and a warm boat. When you're running your engine, you'll probably have a tank of water in less than an hour and this is kind of a freebie if your cruising.

 

The hot water tank tank might appear quite small, but typically it will have a mixer valve on top. This mixes tank water at about a very hot 80c with cold to give you pleasantly hot water at the taps, so essentially your stored hot water goes twice as far.

 

The immersion heater is quite a simple circuit and the element is cheap to replace (as long as it unscrews from the tank ok) so I'd not lose sleep over that not being tested. It sounds like your surveyor has looked at your boat whilst it had no shore supply, so he would have no choice but to do the 'not tested' thing.

 

If any of that is teaching granny to suck eggs, do forgive me, otherwise I hope that clarifies things a bit for you Froggy.

[MtB]

A point no-one has made so far is all boats need stuff fixing all the time. To find a boat with NO FAULTS when carefully examined is virtually impossible even if you buy new. New boat builders expect a 'snagging list' after delivery of a new boat.

 

So it looks to me as though the seller has simply stopped maintaining it properly a year or three ago. Your list contains the stuff that has accumulated to fix the owners have not bothered with. They are probably the reason for sale in the first place!

 

Any my point is, even if you get money off and have it all these things fixed, the boat will present you with a continuing stream of new stuff to fix, as will any other boat you might buy, and looking at the bigger picture, this is exactly the boat you have been looking for.

 

A further point is as has been discussed, the real cost of nearly everything on the list have the potential to vary enormously depending on what is found on proper fault tracing. The engine 'noise' could for example be anything from a loose fan belt to a complete rebuild. The Eber could be anything from flat batteries to needing complete replacement. etc etc. So one or two of these faults will probably be a 'free' fix but a I bet at least one turns out to be a major expense.

 

I think this boat is worth more to you personally than the average buyer off the street due to the specific layout. What price do you put on your time and effort and petrol continuing the hunt for another boat with the same layout, but without these detail faults? I say detail because they ARE all fixable for fairly trivial cost, unlike a rusty hull.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[mrsmelly]

A point no-one has made so far is all boats need stuff fixing all the time. To find a boat with NO FAULTS when carefully examined is virtually impossible even if you buy now. New boat builders expect a 'snagging list' after delivery of a new boat.

 

So it looks to me as though the seller has simply stopped maintaining it properly a year or three ago. Your list contains the stuff that has accumulated to fix the owners have not bothered with. They are probably the reason for sale in the first place!

 

Any my point is, even if you get money off and have it all these things fixed, the boat will present you with a continuing stream of new stuff to fix, as will any other boat you might buy, and looking at the bigger picture, this is exactly the boat you have been looking for.

 

A further point is as has been discussed, the real cost of nearly everything on the list have the potential to vary enormously depending on what is found on proper fault tracing. The engine 'noise' could for example be anything from a loose fan belt to a complete rebuild. The Eber could be anything from flat batteries to needing complete replacement. etc etc. So one or two of these faults will probably be a 'free' fix but a I bet at least one turns out to be a major expense.

 

I think this boat is worth more to you personally than the average buyer off the street due to the specific layout. What price do you put on your time and effort and petrol continuing the hunt for another boat with the same layout, but without these detail faults? I say detail because they ARE all fixable for fairly trivial cost, unlike a rusty hull.

 

All the above is spot on. I believe also you have not yet heard why a boat is called a boat?

 

Bring

Our

Another

Thousand

 

Tim

[Chewbacka]

A bit like my wife when we looked for a new house, she wanted a house that was worth £500k for £200k and it just isn't going to happen.

Likewise with boats, one which is the perfect layout and with a good hull and no question marks over things like the engine, batteries, boiler etc is probably never going to happen in the price range you are working in.

[Froggy]

OK, how's about a quick explanation of a typical system like yours in more familiar terms and then look at the immersion heater issue?

 

The Eberspacher heats the domestic hot water by pumping heated water from the central heating circuit through a sealed coil (usually the upper one) inside the hot water tank (or 'calorifier') - the fresh water and the heating circuit water don't mix. There's a similar lower coil heated by the engine coolant when you're running. This means that you get the top half a tank of hot water by running the Eberspacher (upper coil) and a full one from the engine (lower coil). The immersion heater is a separate 240v electric heating element, usually supplied by shore supply only. So, you have 3 independent methods of heating water.

 

The immersion heater is probably a 2kw element, so it'll use 2 units of electricity per hour of use for hot water only, but it will have a thermostat so it will cut out when the tank is up to temperature. The Eber will cost about 1/2 litre of diesel per hour to run, but that will also heat your radiators. If it's well set up, it should take an hour or so for half a tank of water and a warm boat. When you're running your engine, you'll probably have a tank of water in less than an hour and this is kind of a freebie if your cruising.

 

The hot water tank tank might appear quite small, but typically it will have a mixer valve on top. This mixes tank water at about a very hot 80c with cold to give you pleasantly hot water at the taps, so essentially your stored hot water goes twice as far.

 

The immersion heater is quite a simple circuit and the element is cheap to replace (as long as it unscrews from the tank ok) so I'd not lose sleep over that not being tested. It sounds like your surveyor has looked at your boat whilst it had no shore supply, so he would have no choice but to do the 'not tested' thing.

 

If any of that is teaching granny to suck eggs, do forgive me, otherwise I hope that clarifies things a bit for you Froggy.

 

I was aware of some of this, but nevertheless your holistic explanation helps piece it all together, so i've picked up some useful information, thanks.

[Froggy]

A point no-one has made so far is all boats need stuff fixing all the time. To find a boat with NO FAULTS when carefully examined is virtually impossible even if you buy new. New boat builders expect a 'snagging list' after delivery of a new boat.

 

So it looks to me as though the seller has simply stopped maintaining it properly a year or three ago. Your list contains the stuff that has accumulated to fix the owners have not bothered with. They are probably the reason for sale in the first place!

 

Any my point is, even if you get money off and have it all these things fixed, the boat will present you with a continuing stream of new stuff to fix, as will any other boat you might buy, and looking at the bigger picture, this is exactly the boat you have been looking for.

 

A further point is as has been discussed, the real cost of nearly everything on the list have the potential to vary enormously depending on what is found on proper fault tracing. The engine 'noise' could for example be anything from a loose fan belt to a complete rebuild. The Eber could be anything from flat batteries to needing complete replacement. etc etc. So one or two of these faults will probably be a 'free' fix but a I bet at least one turns out to be a major expense.

 

I think this boat is worth more to you personally than the average buyer off the street due to the specific layout. What price do you put on your time and effort and petrol continuing the hunt for another boat with the same layout, but without these detail faults? I say detail because they ARE all fixable for fairly trivial cost, unlike a rusty hull.

A bit like my wife when we looked for a new house, she wanted a house that was worth £500k for £200k and it just isn't going to happen.

Likewise with boats, one which is the perfect layout and with a good hull and no question marks over things like the engine, batteries, boiler etc is probably never going to happen in the price range you are working in.

 

Good points, although hopefully a complete engine rebuild wouldn't be needed because surely this would amount to several £k.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Froggy

[Froggy]

 

All the above is spot on. I believe also you have not yet heard why a boat is called a boat?

 

Bring

Our

Another

Thousand

 

Tim

 

Another point reached on the learning curve!

[J R ALSOP]

Seen the boat today in question, someone is worrying for not much reason, just get on board and get on with it. It is not a new boat, it will give you much to fiddle with in the coming winter months.

[Froggy]

Seen the boat today in question, someone is worrying for not much reason, just get on board and get on with it. It is not a new boat, it will give you much to fiddle with in the coming winter months.

 

But hopefully not too much.

 

Thanks for all the input folks, the useful information posted in this thread has exceeded my expectations. I'll let you know over the next few days how things progress

Edited October 31, 2016 by Froggy

[MtB]

 

But hopefully not too much.

 

Thanks for all the input folks, the useful information posted in this thread has exceeded my expectations. I'll let you know over the next few days how things progress

 

 

Where do we send the bill?

 

[Jak]

Good luck. I've not regretted buying mine a couple of weeks ago. Fun to have a project. Who wants a perfect boat anyway?!

[Froggy]

 

 

Where do we send the bill?

 

 

Er, i might opt for continuous cruising just to avoid you. .....although come to think of it, that might actually increase the chances of you spotting me.....

Good luck. I've not regretted buying mine a couple of weeks ago. Fun to have a project. Who wants a perfect boat anyway?!

 

Thanks, and you. Chances are that, as i'm guessing that you too are a novice, we'll have some useful tips to exchange over the coming weeks and months.

[Jak]

 

Thanks, and you. Chances are that, as i'm guessing that you too are a novice, we'll have some useful tips to exchange over the coming weeks and months.

Very true. Still in my first month of ownership.

[Nightwatch]

I think the boat the op has had surveyed has a Barrus Shire engine, these should stop when you turn the key, just like a car. If the surveyor thinks the noise could come from the timing belt, he's not familiar with engines. The Shire doesn't have a timing belt.

Mine doesnt.You have to press the stop button and then switch the ignition off.

If,as has happened, the push button doesn't work then it's head down the hatch and find the emergency stop. Usually if the stop button is non effective, then a new relay unit from somewhere like maplins cures it.

 

Martyn

Edit to add. I would guess the burner has muck or grease in the holes. Give it a clean and see what happens. This of course is after you've got a discount.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Nightwatch

[Nightwatch]

Do learning curves have points?

 

 

[Froggy]

Do learning curves have points?

 

 

I guess it depends on how smooth the curve is.

[MtB]

Do learning curves have points?

 

 

 

They certainly have starting points!

[Froggy]

Well, i can now report that we went ahead and bought this boat in the end. Thanks again for all the input that helped us to reach our decision.

[Richard10002]

Well, i can now report that we went ahead and bought this boat in the end. Thanks again for all the input that helped us to reach our decision.

 

Be sure to let us know how things turn out with respect to things pointed out in the survey, and things that were not mentioned.

 

My survey in 2011 confirmed that the boat was an amazing deal at the price, but pointed out several relatively minor issues that could do with attention. If the boat had been at what you might call a normal or full price, I would probably have negotiated over the issues but, as it was, I gave them the agreed price as fast as they would take it.

 

Some of the issues were precautionary educated guesswork, (like, a bit of smoke, so service the engine and keep an eye on it). All of the issues turned out to be exactly as described and needed dealing with over time - even the bit of stiffness in the tiller/rudder, which was solved by filling the base with waterproof grease when I lifted last year.

[Froggy]

 

Be sure to let us know how things turn out with respect to things pointed out in the survey, and things that were not mentioned.

 

My survey in 2011 confirmed that the boat was an amazing deal at the price, but pointed out several relatively minor issues that could do with attention. If the boat had been at what you might call a normal or full price, I would probably have negotiated over the issues but, as it was, I gave them the agreed price as fast as they would take it.

 

Some of the issues were precautionary educated guesswork, (like, a bit of smoke, so service the engine and keep an eye on it). All of the issues turned out to be exactly as described and needed dealing with over time - even the bit of stiffness in the tiller/rudder, which was solved by filling the base with waterproof grease when I lifted last year.

 

Thanks, will do. In the end we didn't attempt to negotiate further than the 2k reduction we'd already got, but are having somebody deal with many of the issues highlighted by the surveyor at a reasonable cost. We didn't think the engine noises at startup were anything to worry about, in fact the engine sounded quite sweet, even under load. Obviously, for an engine with unknown hours on the clock there is a certain amount of risk involved. The work being rectified includes the morso stove collar (the rest of the stove looked sound) plus rotted chimney and missing cowl, a service for the eberspacher (which was proved to be in working order but with a dead service battery), attention to the gas jets and regulator, and a service on the engine.

 

I'll post more detail soon, along with some pictures of the boat.

[mrsmelly]

 

Thanks, will do. In the end we didn't attempt to negotiate further than the 2k reduction we'd already got, but are having somebody deal with many of the issues highlighted by the surveyor at a reasonable cost. We didn't think the engine noises at startup were anything to worry about, in fact the engine sounded quite sweet, even under load. Obviously, for an engine with unknown hours on the clock there is a certain amount of risk involved. The work being rectified includes the morso stove collar (the rest of the stove looked sound) plus rotted chimney and missing cowl, a service for the eberspacher (which was proved to be in working order but with a dead service battery), attention to the gas jets and regulator, and a service on the engine.

 

I'll post more detail soon, along with some pictures of the boat.

 

Exellent

 

Tim

[Sea Dog]

Good news Froggy! I hope you have many happy times with your new boat.