At a lock today...

[mayalld]

I was going down, single handed. Cruiser on the way up, bloke with windlass in hand, woman steering the boat. They'd just arrived so I took the opportunity to tie to a bollard and make a cup of tea. Brew made, they were coming out of the lock so I untied and started to move forward slowly.

 

All good so far?

 

The bloke with the windlass then closes the lock gate. I had to reverse a little to tie up again. I told him as he walked past that he could have left the gate open. Tried to say it in a friendly manner. His response: "you could have helped me with the lock, mate"

 

Was I out of order at all, should I always look to help people, even when they don't need help?

 

 

 

No you were not out of order. He, on the other hand was out of order.

 

Helping another boater, if;

• You don't need to attend to your own boat
• The other boater wants your help

is fine, but nobody should be going round with any sense of entitlement to such help.

 

On the other hand, we should all have a reasonable expectation that other boaters will not take any deliberate action to hinder us.

 

Deliberately closing a gate to punish you for failing to offer help that you had no obligation to offer is just pathetic.

 

Whilst I'm not a single hander, Bev has some serious health issues which mean that although she is OK to steer the boat, she has difficulty with holding on a lock mooring (particularly at the foot of a fast emptying lock), which means that I tend to stay with the boat until we are ready to go into the lock.

 

To go and help somebody at a lock means NOT helping my wife who is actually rather higher in the pecking order than some random boater I've never met before.

 

Several times I've had comments from idiots with an inflated sense of entitlement.

[captain birdseye]

I remember a few years ago arriving above Wardle lock just as a boat was entering it going downhill. There was an older couple on the boat so I tied up and went to help. I let them get on the boat and then opened the bottom paddles, noticing as I did two young ladies lying ion the grass by the tail of the lock in the sun. As the boat left the lock I dropped the paddles and stunt one of the gates. As I did so these ladies got up and shouted at me to stop as they were coming up and their boat was round the corner.

 

Maureen, who was out in her garden gave them a right mouthful for just jying there while somebody else had come up to help the older couple, saying she would not of believed they were off a boat as they just lay there doing nothing to help.

 

Those of you who knew Maureen will understand how they felt.

[MtB]

The posters who think boaters should help other boaters through locks are being rather egocentric in my opinion. They appear to be saying other boaters are wrong not to see things their way.

 

They are assuming (incorrectly) that all boaters perceive locks as obstacles to be dispatched ASAP, and in helping zip other boater through they are doing them a favour. NOT always the case and very presumptive. What they really want is for you to be out off their way ASAP so they can get on with boating, I often think.

 

As a boater who enjoy working locks stress-free and as technically efficiently as possible, I derive great enjoyment from working locks solo. Another boater pitching up and insisting on 'helping' is about as welcome as a cup of cold tea.

 

Smashes my routine to bits and I now have to 'manage' them as I work 'my' lock with my boat in it for which I am responsible. Completely spoils my enjoyment of working that particular lock. I still smile sweetly and say 'thank you', even so because it would be churlish not to!

 

I'm more relaxed about it in real life than it sounds typed out in a forum reply but it is fundamentally the case. When I get to a lock and I'm alone I mentally punch the air, and should another boater heave into view my heart sinks...

 

(In the case of the OP I'd have stayed on the lock landing until the other boater was out of sight thus leaving him with the impression I was staying on the lock landing for a while and his shutting of the gate caused me no concern.)

Edited July 6, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[Guest]

The posters who think boaters should help other boaters through locks are being rather egocentric in my opinion. They appear to be saying other boaters are wrong not to see things their way.

 

They are assuming (incorrectly) that all boaters perceive locks as obstacles to be dispatched ASAP, and in helping zip other boater through they are doing them a favour. NOT always the case and very presumptive.

 

As a boater who enjoy working locks stress-free and as technically efficiently as possible. I derive great enjoyment from working locks solo. Another boater pitching up and insisting on 'helping' is about as welcome as a cup of cold tea.

 

Smashes my routine to bits and I now have to 'manage' them as I work 'my' lock with my boat in it for which I am responsible. Completely spoils my enjoyment of working that particular lock.

 

I'm more relaxed about it in real life than it sounds typed out in a forum reply but it is fundamentally the case. When I get to a lock and I'm alone I mentally punch the air, and should another boater heave into view my heart sinks...

 

(In the case of the OP I'd have stayed on the lock landing until the other boater was out of sight thus leaving him with the impression I was staying on the lock landing for a while and his shutting of the gate caused me no concern.)

To be clear in my case the convo. would go something like this.

 

Me "I see you are single handing, would you like help with the lock? "

 

You "No thanks, I prefer to do them on my own"

 

Me "No problem"

 

At which point I would sit out and wait your passage through the lock.

[MtB]

To be clear in my case the convo. would go something like this.

 

Me "I see you are single handing, would you like help with the lock? "

 

You "No thanks, I prefer to do them on my own"

 

Me "No problem"

 

At which point I would sit out and wait your passage through the lock.

 

 

Excellent.

 

Most boaters don't ask. Those who do more often open conversation with something oblique like "Are you single handed?" or something along those lines. Then presume to help when I say yes, or even instruct me to get back on the boat while they do the lock 'for me'. Amazing!

 

Maybe I should fib!

[pquinn]

I was going down, single handed. Cruiser on the way up, bloke with windlass in hand, woman steering the boat. They'd just arrived so I took the opportunity to tie to a bollard and make a cup of tea. Brew made, they were coming out of the lock so I untied and started to move forward slowly.

 

All good so far?

 

The bloke with the windlass then closes the lock gate. I had to reverse a little to tie up again. I told him as he walked past that he could have left the gate open. Tried to say it in a friendly manner. His response: "you could have helped me with the lock, mate"

 

Was I out of order at all, should I always look to help people, even when they don't need help?

 

 

You should be glad that you didnt help him as he turned out to be a vindictive , argumentative, confrontational and hostile individual.

[Athy]

he thought he was making the point that you were the bad person and him the good one, which of course totally backfired to any causal observer,

Apt typo of the week award.

[billS]

Like Mike, I get a great deal of pleasure and much needed excercise single handling through locks and being as efficient as possible. It gave me great satisfaction to catch up with a loaded pair ascending the Stockton flight a few weeks ago (and no they weren't opening a paddle behind them, but they did close the top gates)

 

I rarely boat on my own, but our usual morning routine when cruising is for me to get up and do the first few locks single handed, whist Mrs S. slowly bestirs, makes me a cuppa, goes back to bed to read for a bit, gets up again, gets dressed, then gets the breakfast on.

 

If I am unfortunate enough to meet other boats whilst locking, the inevitable question is "Are you on your own". The negative response usually results in a puzzled expression.

Edited July 6, 2016 by billS

[Guest]

Excellent.

 

Most boaters don't ask. Those who do more often open conversation with something oblique like "Are you single handed?" or something along those lines. Then presume to help when I say yes, or even instruct me to get back on the boat while they do the lock 'for me'. Amazing!

 

Maybe I should fib!

I think it was from a previous thread on here a long time ago that it was pointed out to me that help isn't always welcome and that stuck with me.

 

The locks where help has never been refused in my experience are the big deep locks that are key operated. In my experience single handers are always grateful for someone to operate them for them which is understandable IMHO. When I used to walk the dog along the towpath I always made sure I had my key with me.

 

I very occasionally had to reassure the other boater that I too was a boater and knew what I was doing and not some random geezer carrying a BW key as a hobby.

[Thorfast]

When I'm single handing, I'll often go and help the boat in front, or the boat coming the other way.....often just to stretch my legs.

Some appreciate help, some don't so I just wait until its my turn.

Sometimes people help me, and sometimes they don't....thats up to them. It makes little difference to me.

The only lock where I really really appreciate assistance is Beeston Iron Lock on the Shroppie.

 

If someone deliberately shut the gates as they left and I was waiting to go in, I too would be 'miffed', but would probably shrug my shoulders and quietly think 'what a prat'.

 

I remember once, I had been going along a looong pound for ages and was really looking forward to getting off at the next lock and working the lock. When I got there the boat coming the other way insisted on seeing me through the whole lock so I didnt have to get off. I thanked them, but was secretly annoyed for their help. I would not dream of shouting 'No, let me do it'.

[gazza]

The posters who think boaters should help other boaters through locks are being rather egocentric in my opinion. They appear to be saying other boaters are wrong not to see things their way.

 

They are assuming (incorrectly) that all boaters perceive locks as obstacles to be dispatched ASAP, and in helping zip other boater through they are doing them a favour. NOT always the case and very presumptive. What they really want is for you to be out off their way ASAP so they can get on with boating, I often think.

 

As a boater who enjoy working locks stress-free and as technically efficiently as possible, I derive great enjoyment from working locks solo. Another boater pitching up and insisting on 'helping' is about as welcome as a cup of cold tea.

 

Smashes my routine to bits and I now have to 'manage' them as I work 'my' lock with my boat in it for which I am responsible. Completely spoils my enjoyment of working that particular lock. I still smile sweetly and say 'thank you', even so because it would be churlish not to!

 

I'm more relaxed about it in real life than it sounds typed out in a forum reply but it is fundamentally the case. When I get to a lock and I'm alone I mentally punch the air, and should another boater heave into view my heart sinks...

 

(In the case of the OP I'd have stayed on the lock landing until the other boater was out of sight thus leaving him with the impression I was staying on the lock landing for a while and his shutting of the gate caused me no concern.)

 

 

agreed.

 

Try it in a GRP boat you really rather wasn't clattered off the lock walls while your 1 year old is asleep.....

 

I had this at Elton last year, two 'helpful' ladies insisted on interfering with the lock, i was on the way upstream so they had to wait for me to fill the lock for them to proceed downstream. I told them several times i need no assistance - Mrs Gazza was, as normal inside with the little un and the dog cant climb ladders so he was no use

Despite me asking several times to leave the paddles alone the pair of them wound them anyway. On a deep Nene lock (as Elton is) travelling uphill i open the boat side paddle carefully and a bit at a time, my helpers insisted on drawing both thus creating a maelstrom that bangs the boat about, i ended up loosing my patience a bit and shouting at them to leave them alone rather than repeatedly asking in a quite manor - at no time was i rude mind.

As you say, its more to do with them wanting you to be out the way than an altruistic desire to lend a helping hand.

It wouldn't been half so bad if all they did was lean on the gates as i need both open, ho hum, such is life!

Bugger me that on leaving the lock i discovered it was the pair on a sea otter i had a previous run in with on the Northampton arm, resulting in 1 lost windlass, a bit of damaged paint and me winning the Beckett Boot - but that's another story

[Dave123]

to add to the complexity, on broad canals should you leave one or two gates open if only one boat is approaching? And too far away to ask what they prefer. Been complained at for leaving one and two gates open for an approaching boat on Hatton locks.?

[gazza]

to add to the complexity, on broad canals should you leave one or two gates open if only one boat is approaching? And too far away to ask what they prefer. Been complained at for leaving one and two gates open for an approaching boat on Hatton locks.?

If you only need one gate open for you to exit that's all you need to do.

 

I need both open, by leaving one open you have halved the work for me. I don't expect a lock to be worked fully for me.

Obviously, if you arrive as I leave both will be open and I won't jump off to shut one - meaning you have an extra gate to shut than you may normally have but an easier entry into the lock.

 

Swings and roundabouts etc.

Edited July 6, 2016 by gazza

[Dave123]

Yes...swings and roundabouts indeed! Ithe would be good if there was some sort of hand signal for asking 'one or two gates?' Haha

[pquinn]

Yes...swings and roundabouts indeed! Ithe would be good if there was some sort of hand signal for asking 'one or two gates?' Haha

Well, Liam Gallagher has graciously suggested this one for two gates.............

[Jim Batty]

...

 

Likewise when you share a lock with a single hander, and they just stay on the boat and don't help with their side. Particularly going down it is very easy for them to close the gate behind them, I always do that with 2 of us.

 

In our experience, when sharing a broad lock, almost all single-handers leap about and operate their side of the lock while Karen operates our side. And I'm usually amazed at the tricks they've developed to do that -- particularly anticipating the right rope length tied off to keep their boat under control. I think a boater's attitude to help is important ... even if their skills are less that brilliant.

 

Cruising a few weeks back, we had a single-hander join us. Working through the first lock he stood at the stern and ate a pot of heated beans. OK, guy must be hungry. Working through the second lock he rolled a cigarette. Yea, OK. Working through the third lock he put on a kettle and smoked his cigarette as we rose. K wasn't chuffed and filled each lock from one side only. And as a water point approached we decided to stop and top up the tank ... and let him go his merry way.

 

to add to the complexity, on broad canals should you leave one or two gates open if only one boat is approaching? And too far away to ask what they prefer. Been complained at for leaving one and two gates open for an approaching boat on Hatton locks.

 

I can usually take the boat into and out of a broad lock through a single gate in either direction. But if it is windy or there are strong currents across the top end, it can be difficult or near-impossible to enter a single gate because I'm all over the place. And pushing it would only damage the gate. Same thing leaving a lock if there is a strong cross-current immediately below -- as it drags the bow over before I'm fully out.

 

I don't think you can win on this one. It depends on lots of external factors and the driver's skill.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Jim Batty

[gazza]

Yes...swings and roundabouts indeed! Ithe would be good if there was some sort of hand signal for asking 'one or two gates?' Haha

No need for a hand signal with us, at 9' 6" it's clear we need two open

Well, Liam Gallagher has graciously suggested this one for two gates.............

Good old Liam

[cuthound]

Ange, I can only agree with you. I've noted a change too, as have other old timers. The lack of camaraderie is notable, years ago there was much more willingness to help each other out. I can only put it down to today's boaters, I'm afraid. Maybe they are fearful of having their floating cottages scratched by windlass wielding oafs.

Given my present situation, I can't do as much boating as I used to. We managed a bit last weekend, Glascote to Grendon, back to Alvecote overnight then return on Sunday. During the trip Gail commented on the number of boaters who either ignored us completely or gave us scant acknowledgement. Ah well.....

Dave

Whilst there is a definite trend to the crew staying with their boat, and not helping, there are still many of us "long in the tooth" boaters who do it as we have always done, and help others if they want help.

 

During our recent trip, we covered around 30 locks and only at one lock did we have another boats crew sit around and not help.

 

We also had someone turn our lock around to follow another boat down, rather than let us come up. So we made his life as difficult as possible by waiting in the bridge hole in the short pound between the two locks, thus making him stop on the lock landing of the lock he had just left.

 

He was not happy when i explained he should have waited for us to come up, saving both water and time and refused to make eye contact with us!

 

Edited to change just one letter (us to up)

Edited July 6, 2016 by cuthound

[LoneWolf]

Hey on a roll now don't you just love muddy ditches

 

nice pic

 

 

 

 

Excellent.

 

Most boaters don't ask. Those who do more often open conversation with something oblique like "Are you single handed?" or something along those lines. Then presume to help when I say yes, or even instruct me to get back on the boat while they do the lock 'for me'. Amazing!

 

Maybe I should fib!

 

or, even more bizarrely, when i've just come up the ladder they instruct "get back on & I'll do it" - like i'm going to climb back down the ladder!

Or equally as strange, if they're going the same way & in front, they'll refuse my offer to shut the gates for them & insist on hanging about and 'helping' me which only means i'll be waiting behind them at the next lock too

 

I agree with you - i like doing locks by myself - i don't need help and i dont understand the assumption by non single-handers that i want it

 

 

 

You didn't do anything wrong Ricco - you just met an arse, forget about him

[Cheshire cat]

We have chatted to some hire crews and discovered that some hire companies are advising them not to help with locks. It seems a shame really because meeting strangers at locks is one of the upsides of boating

[Bettie Boo]

I'm sure you realise that my comment is as much tounge in cheek as MTB's about 'proper' canals.

 

 

 

Oh course I did, hence the winkie smiley I put in my response

[GoodGurl]

having owned a yogurt pot for 15 years i can tell you there is and always has been stigma a between narrowboats and grp cruisers, NB owners will and have closed the gates on us as we have approached a wide lock and also refuse to help you through.

[Boat&Bikes]

having owned a yogurt pot for 15 years i can tell you there is and always has been stigma a between narrowboats and grp cruisers, NB owners will and have closed the gates on us as we have approached a wide lock and also refuse to help you through.

Maybe a view held by some steel boat owners, but does it matter what that type of person thinks?

 

Ian.

[Greylady2]

Tossypotters are everywhere Ricco just be polite and stuff the numptys.

 

Dont let them mess your head up, i was halfway out of a narrow bridge the other day a captain mannering type sorry gg in a grp rammed his boat into the right hand side and blamed me for being in the wrong.

 

His pint fell off his dashboard all over him.

 

I was doing total tick over and his 9.9hp was flat out.

 

You see Ricco Numptys are everywhere.

 

You do what your doing.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Greylady2

[Greylady2]

having owned a yogurt pot for 15 years i can tell you there is and always has been stigma a between narrowboats and grp cruisers, NB owners will and have closed the gates on us as we have approached a wide lock and also refuse to help you through.

Thats unfair GG stuff em, i see all boaters as the same as me, their are numpty narrowboaters and numpty grp boaters its all down to the people who are on them that spoil a happy day or make a day lovely.