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Martin Megson

Keel Black - Is it any good

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:detective:  oh yeah! I thought that was only available on the PC. I guess I got familiar with the Android version on my phone where spotting that is somewhat more challenging! :giggles:

Thanks Regarding. (I got fed up of fighting autocorrect there, so I presume the poster above's name is short for that and left it) ;)

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I was wondering if any of you Keelblack users had any updates on the state of your hulls so far? 

Edited by Emz798

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If it's now two or three years since your hull was last blacked it will be high time to lift out anyway, if only to inspect other stuff (anodes, rudder, prop).

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1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

If it's now two or three years since your hull was last blacked it will be high time to lift out anyway, if only to inspect other stuff (anodes, rudder, prop).

If it wasn't for the blacking requirement, I wouldn't lift our narrowboat to specifically check these things every two or three years, unless I thought there was a problem. 

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My 1990 Gary Gorton hull was in desperate need of blacking in 1999 when I bought it. I hand scraped it with a Sandvic 650 scraper through bitumen, gloss paint, zinc paint and red lead to bare steel. New anodes bolted on.

Leigh's paints, now Sherwin-Williams of Bolton supplied epoxy 2 pack zinc primer and black. 2 coats of each went on with 12 hours between coats, 2 days later back in the water.

Since then it has been out to touch up damage 3 times, just washed and wiped off and 1 thin coat of black all over after treating the bald scratched bits with 2 coats. It has had 2 sets of anodes replaced in 17 years, fitting new ones next to the part remains of the previous set each time.

No break down or flaking, the only rust was where it had been torn down to bare steel on concrete and rocks.

So I am happy with the epoxy, even though the hull was not grit blasted or ground. A water based solution does sound like a smashing idea if it will compete with epoxy.

Edited by Boater Sam

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I think my post may have been misunderstood, I simply wanted to know how well the hulls were doing for those who had used Keelblack specifically to paint their hulls

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6 minutes ago, Emz798 said:

I think my post may have been misunderstood, I simply wanted to know how well the hulls were doing for those who had used Keelblack specifically to paint their hulls

Looks clear enough to me.

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58 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

My 1990 Gary Gorton hull was in desperate need of blacking in 1999 when I bought it. I hand scraped it with a Sandvic 650 scraper through bitumen, gloss paint, zinc paint and red lead to bare steel. New anodes bolted on.

Leigh's paints, now Sherwin-Williams of Bolton supplied epoxy 2 pack zinc primer and black. 2 coats of each went on with 12 hours between coats, 2 days later back in the water.

Since then it has been out to touch up damage 3 times, just washed and wiped off and 1 thin coat of black all over after treating the bald scratched bits with 2 coats. It has had 2 sets of anodes replaced in 17 years, fitting new ones next to the part remains of the previous set each time.

No break down or flaking, the only rust was where it had been torn down to bare steel on concrete and rocks.

So I am happy with the epoxy, even though the hull was not grit blasted or ground. A water based solution does sound like a smashing idea if it will compete with epoxy.

Hmm, I've always suspected some of the 2 pack epoxies would cope with hand prep as opposed to the grit blasting that convention appears to demand. Some are designed for application between tides or to be done in the splash zone where a grit blasted standard of prep just ain't gonna happen.

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The Iron bridge here is being grit blasted and they are using Sherwin Williams coatings so that must be some sort of recommendation, I'll see if I can get a close look at the tins to see what variety they are using.

45 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Hmm, I've always suspected some of the 2 pack epoxies would cope with hand prep as opposed to the grit blasting that convention appears to demand. Some are designed for application between tides or to be done in the splash zone where a grit blasted standard of prep just ain't gonna happen.

Jotun Jotumastic 87 two pack is supposed to be surface tolerant - I hope it is cos that's what I'm slapping on this year.

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1 minute ago, Bee said:

The Iron bridge here is being grit blasted and they are using Sherwin Williams coatings so that must be some sort of recommendation

For wrought iron, maybe, but for mild steel?

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

If it wasn't for the blacking requirement, I wouldn't lift our narrowboat to specifically check these things every two or three years, unless I thought there was a problem. 

The need to inspect anodes depends on (1) how acidic your home waters are, and (2) the state of the anodes at the previous haul-out, but I don't necessarily disagree. The point I was making was that blacking isn't the only reason for hauling out. Of course, if you are near Red Bull Services it's a relatively inexpensive matter anyway (proper slipway!).

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2 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

For wrought iron, maybe, but for mild steel?

Dunno but we'll see how it copes with dogs piddling on the railings in a year or two, it takes ages to haul my dog over the bridge, it simply has to stop at every b****** railing for a sniff.

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54 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

The need to inspect anodes depends on (1) how acidic your home waters are, and (2) the state of the anodes at the previous haul-out, but I don't necessarily disagree. The point I was making was that blacking isn't the only reason for hauling out. Of course, if you are near Red Bull Services it's a relatively inexpensive matter anyway (proper slipway!).

Luckily our front anodes are usually visible whilst afloat, which gives an indication of the condition of the rears ones too hopefully.

The prop and shaft can be viewed throught the weedhatch at a push,and to inspect the rudder, I just chuck Mrs Rusty in with a snorkel:)

Edited by rusty69

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My neighbour keelblacked his hull a year ago, I did mine last July. Both look fine less weed growth than bitumen and less marks/scratches. The real test will be how it stands up to a pressure wash next time blacking is due.

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1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

to inspect the rudder, I just chuck Mrs Rusty in

What an odd name for an underwater camera...

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Sorry if I took this a bit off topic but I think having something to compare it to was relevant. What tests have the makers published, its been out a while now?

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6 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

What tests have the makers published, its been out a while now?

Yep, something I mused in a post a while back.  There could easily have been evidential photographs of Keelblack hulls over twice the life of bitumen blacking by now.  I can't for the life of me understand why the first thing the manufacturer did wasn't black a couple of boats and haul them out annualy for inspection reports and photographs expressly for this purpose.  Instead, we all appear to be waiting for those laymen who chose to risk using it on their hulls at their own expense to report back as best they can.

I've blacked with Rylards twice since I first saw Keelblack precisely due to this lack of evidence.

Edited by Sea Dog
Annual

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14 hours ago, Loddon said:

My neighbour keelblacked his hull a year ago, I did mine last July. Both look fine less weed growth than bitumen and less marks/scratches. The real test will be how it stands up to a pressure wash next time blacking is due.

Thanks, good to know!

 

6 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Sorry if I took this a bit off topic but I think having something to compare it to was relevant. What tests have the makers published, its been out a while now?

Yes true thanks. Keelblack's been out since 2015 I think but they don't seem to have produced anything except these 3 "case studies" on their website which don't really show anything or say anything about long-term use of the product...if they were counting on the laymen to produce results instead as Sea Dog suggests the least they could have done is paint a few boats for free :glare:

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Just checked Chemco’s website. They do a paint that can be applied underwater!!!!!

Could this be applied along the waterline of the boat’s hull, which is the main area for corrosion, without drydocking?

Below the water line, the substrate was prepared using mechanical methods. This was followed by one primer coat of solvent-free, wet & rust tolerant epoxy Epo-chem™ RS 500P and one topcoat of Chemco’s specialised solvent-free underwater coating system Diver-cote™ RA 500UW-LV.

 

http://chemcoint.com/portfolio/case-studies/bridge-refurbishment-pannekoek-gww.html

Edited by jenevers

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3 hours ago, jenevers said:

Just checked Chemco’s website. They do a paint that can be applied underwater!!!!!

Could this be applied along the waterline of the boat’s hull, which is the main area for corrosion, without drydocking?

 

I don't know, but I'll bet the brushes are a right pig to clean! ;)

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23 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I don't know, but I'll bet the brushes are a right pig to clean! ;)

Just rinse them out in water... oh, wait...

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Mine is out in July which will be the two year point, mine is purely a cosmetic coating over zinger, but my mates who is coming out at the same time isnt, so we will know how its done then. We will be recoating with it though as it was so easy to apply

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I did my boat with KB 2 years ago, and dry docked it last week. The hull was fine, paint looked to still be on ok. It was really warm yet the hull took an age to dry and I did wonder if that was due to this paint somehow?  Usually I find bubbles on the sides that are full of water, there were noticeably less, but it has only been 2 years. KB does go on very easy with a roller, though you needs loads as the paint sets on them, as it's easy it does seem like cheating somehow.. 43 foot boat, only applied below the rubbing strake, 5 litres did 5 coats.. Boat is 19 years old and I didn't find anything to worry me, hut then our family believe you can pretty much paint with anything you like, it makes no difference really, just cosmetic.. suppose to give a firm recommendation I would like to see a hull that had only ever been painted with KB.

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24 minutes ago, casper ghost said:

I did my boat with KB 2 years ago, and dry docked it last week. The hull was fine, paint looked to still be on ok. It was really warm yet the hull took an age to dry and I did wonder if that was due to this paint somehow?  Usually I find bubbles on the sides that are full of water, there were noticeably less, but it has only been 2 years. KB does go on very easy with a roller, though you needs loads as the paint sets on them, as it's easy it does seem like cheating somehow.. 43 foot boat, only applied below the rubbing strake, 5 litres did 5 coats.. Boat is 19 years old and I didn't find anything to worry me, hut then our family believe you can pretty much paint with anything you like, it makes no difference really, just cosmetic.. suppose to give a firm recommendation I would like to see a hull that had only ever been painted with KB.

Same as mine except mine is 57 foot, I found brushes better, but last year I sprayed both boats, did 3 coats each in an afternoon very fast to apply, as you say seems like cheating its so easy

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Any updates on this topic.

KB appeals however, as others have said, I would be in terested in results data after a few years in the drink.

I will have to do blacking relatively soon and certainly cannot afford grit and two pack at the moment having just paid for the boat!

If any one has any fresh details I would appreciate learning about them.

Thanks.

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Having now used KB twice on the same boat.  I am happy to use it a third time.

However, from experience, I would not consider using it before summer, due to the drying time required.

Indeed it is very easy, and quick to apply, but the preperation must be done properly.  You would not put wallpaper on peeling walls, and expect it to stay up!

Through power wash, heavy scraping, removing all even vaguely loose old coatings.  KB recommend Fertan, which should be used as per instructions, all before any KB is applied.

In my experience, KB is best applied when the boat is on hard standing, with the best possible air flow around the hull.  I don't think this could happen in a dry dock situation, unless you had an open ended booking.  The drying time is the most important part of the job, being water based, KB will if only part dried, wash off when the boat is refloated.

Order KB to be delivered on site when the preparation is almost complete, it's best used when very fresh, the shelf life is not too long.

 

Bod

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