CRT Winding Hole Survey

[MtB]

Can someone please clarify if it is allowed to wind using the entrance to Barby Marina on the North Oxford? There are a couple of signs saying no winding and telling people to wind using the hole near to Hillmorton Wharf.

 

I may have it wrong but I thought that when a new marina was created allowing winding in the entrance was part and parcel of the consent?

 

ETA the signs are not official CRT ones.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Glad you've brought that up. I was going to mention the same signs at quite a few marina entrances stating 'NO TURNING' or NO WINDING' The marina at Fenny Compton has one IIRC, for example.

[john6767]

The water point in in the old lock. I know where you mean as I wind there myself, its just I am not sure it was built as a wining hole or just became one when they widened it for the broad lock.

I am sure many locations were not built as a winding holes but they are one. The CRT list has Hawkesbury Junction as a winding hole for example, so why not above Calcutt? They show by bridge 104 as a winding hole, which by no stretch of the imagination is it, so I just do not buy this list as a comprehensive list of winding holes that need evaluation.

[Horace42]

AIUI this WAS a winding hole but when the new houses were built one or more of the landowners registered the winding hole with Land Registry as being their property.

 

BW/CRT remissly did not object at the time. I think there is still some legal process going on but I fear it may be a lost cause.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

From the angle I approach the problem, it does not matter who owns the land. If there is room to turn in CRT waters, safely and with due care, then a no-turning sign not properly authorised by CRT can be ignored.

[john6767]

Can someone please clarify if it is allowed to wind using the entrance to Barby Marina on the North Oxford? There are a couple of signs saying no winding and telling people to wind using the hole near to Hillmorton Wharf.

 

I may have it wrong but I thought that when a new marina was created allowing winding in the entrance was part and parcel of the consent?

 

ETA the signs are not official CRT ones.

 

Thank you.

Yes that is a good one, I too thought that all new marinas were supposed to be built with an enterence that formed a winding hole, so I would have said that is officially a winding hole, and they are taking the mick with a sign.

[Horace42]

Mike Ballinger, the former moorings warden at Cropredy, mentioned some similar old law to me once; he reckoned that anyone on the Oxford Canal (or perhaps part of it) had the right to moor on the water adjoining their land, presumably as long as they did not obstruct traffic.

To some extent I think this is true, but you must have a cruising license, for which you need a mooring license. And if CRT refused one, you you would not get a cruising license, and then you would not be allowed to moor anywhere on CRT water. You could of course moor in a private marina, which enables you to obtain a cruising license, and then you moor on your own land anyway. CRT pocket the fees.

 

I don't think CRT could stop you - and why should they!

[Ray T]

Photo of the entrance to Barby

 

 

[Rick-n-Jo]

Photo of the entrance to Barby

 

Barby Entrance.JPG

Well I would wind there, sign notwithstanding, what can they do?

[JamesWoolcock]

Staffs & Worc. winding hole at Penkridge ?

No good today. There was a fishing match in it!

Reported to CRT.

 

James

[Horace42]

No good today. There was a fishing match in it!

Reported to CRT.

 

James

 

Out of curiosity, what would CRT do about it ? My cynical view is they would drop it in a pending tray "Oh dear, what a shame".

 

But in CRT defence, a more pragmatic view, is what can they do about it? - other than have a clear code of practice on the issue.

 

The anglers know the rules (or soon will) because any boat wanting to turn there will cause temporary hassle.

 

In the formal scheme of things this is reason for an official CRT sign. to say boats have right of way if wanting to turn.

 

There is no need for a No Fishing sign, which is akin to No Turning - both somewhat officious. To deny an angler a nice spot to fish on a permanent basis just in case an occasional random boat might want to turn there is not a practical use of the waterway.

[furnessvale]

 

From the angle I approach the problem, it does not matter who owns the land. If there is room to turn in CRT waters, safely and with due care, then a no-turning sign not properly authorised by CRT can be ignored.

From the example being discussed, IF what I have heard is true, then the water is not CRTs and we have to imagine a dotted line signifying the landowner's boundary.

 

Having said that, what action the landowner can take is quite a different matter.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Horace42]

Having said that, what action the landowner can take is quite a different matter. Yes, and something to sort out with CRT.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Hereby is the basic problem facing CRT.

If the canal is wide enough for a boat to wind in CRT waters it should be shown on the CRT map, that by rights would deny the owner any authority to ban turning.

CRT needs to get it's act together for all or sakes.

[Bugsworth Tippler]

A stoppage notice issued today states that the Macclesfield Canal is closed in Bollington and suggests winding at Bollington Wharf.

 

BW/C&RT were adamant that this wasn't a winding hole a year or so ago even though the winding hole signs were still in place at the time. They were quickly removed when this was pointed out to them.

 

Is this an implicit admission that somwehere in C&RT's documents Bollington Wharf was listed as a winding hole even though they've now allowed a private marina to take it over for moorings and it's not now listed as a winding hole on the Maccalsfield [sic] Canal?

 

The distance between the Hurdsfield winding hole and the one at Bridge 27 is far too great in my opinion. A visit to Bollington from the Marple direction now requires an additional 90 min (2 x 45 min) just for turning. And anyone reaching Bollington from the south and then stopped by this stoppage will be in a bit of a pickle if they have to reverse all that way.

[furnessvale]

A stoppage notice issued today states that the Macclesfield Canal is closed in Bollington and suggests winding at Bollington Wharf.

 

BW/C&RT were adamant that this wasn't a winding hole a year or so ago even though the winding hole signs were still in place at the time. They were quickly removed when this was pointed out to them.

 

Is this an implicit admission that somwehere in C&RT's documents Bollington Wharf was listed as a winding hole even though they've now allowed a private marina to take it over for moorings and it's not now listed as a winding hole on the Maccalsfield [sic] Canal?

 

The distance between the Hurdsfield winding hole and the one at Bridge 27 is far too great in my opinion. A visit to Bollington from the Marple direction now requires an additional 90 min (2 x 45 min) just for turning. And anyone reaching Bollington from the south and then stopped by this stoppage will be in a bit of a pickle if they have to reverse all that way.

After much robust "discussion" with CRT, involving a doughty campaigner of fairly mature years and others, I have pleasure in announcing that the winding hole at Bollington Wharf is now open again.

 

CRT have finally admitted that they were wrong and it always was a winding hole. It is usable now, but a couple of modifications will be made to the jetties to make things easier still. CRT have had to buy back a couple of moorings they allowed to be placed in the winding hole.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[mayalld]

 

Out of curiosity, what would CRT do about it ? My cynical view is they would drop it in a pending tray "Oh dear, what a shame".

 

But in CRT defence, a more pragmatic view, is what can they do about it? - other than have a clear code of practice on the issue.

 

The anglers know the rules (or soon will) because any boat wanting to turn there will cause temporary hassle.

 

In the formal scheme of things this is reason for an official CRT sign. to say boats have right of way if wanting to turn.

 

There is no need for a No Fishing sign, which is akin to No Turning - both somewhat officious. To deny an angler a nice spot to fish on a permanent basis just in case an occasional random boat might want to turn there is not a practical use of the waterway.

 

That fails to consider the actual practicalities, in that if an angler sets up in a winding hole, he is NOT going to want to move if a boat decides to turn.

 

The bank adjacent to a winding hole is permanently unavailable for mooring, so it is entirely reasonable that it be permanently unavailable for fishing.

 

As I remarked to the buffoon who was fishing in a winding hole and loudly demanded "do you HAVE to do THAT here";

 

"Yes, actually"

After much robust "discussion" with CRT, involving a doughty campaigner of fairly mature years and others, I have pleasure in announcing that the winding hole at Bollington Wharf is now open again.

 

CRT have finally admitted that they were wrong and it always was a winding hole. It is usable now, but a couple of modifications will be made to the jetties to make things easier still. CRT have had to buy back a couple of moorings they allowed to be placed in the winding hole.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

Splendid news George!

[Bugsworth Tippler]

"After much robust "discussion" with CRT, involving a doughty campaigner of fairly mature years and others, I have pleasure in announcing that the winding hole at Bollington Wharf is now open again.

 

CRT have finally admitted that they were wrong and it always was a winding hole. It is usable now, but a couple of modifications will be made to the jetties to make things easier still. CRT have had to buy back a couple of moorings they allowed to be placed in the winding hole.

 

George ex nb Alton retired"

 

I'm delighted to hear this. Well done George!

[Bugsworth Tippler]

I hope the winding hole signs at Bollington will be re-instated to avoid having too many 'discussions' with the occupants of the wharf.

[ditchcrawler]

Do you think they want to know about winding holes where the towpath is let to long term moorings like the T&M at Bartington just north of Black Price boats.

[BruceinSanity]

 

The distance between the Hurdsfield winding hole and the one at Bridge 27 is far too great in my opinion. A visit to Bollington from the Marple direction now requires an additional 90 min (2 x 45 min) just for turning. And anyone reaching Bollington from the south and then stopped by this stoppage will be in a bit of a pickle if they have to reverse all that way.

Note my earlier comment about Hurdsfield: until it's dredged, it's impossible to get 70' round there, or much over 60' I'd think. We got SA well wedged across the cut, both bow and stern hard on the silt. No way to get off the back onto the towpath and the bow was so well stemmed up I had grief just trying to get back off. The mud had obviously oozed right round and gripped it in a clammy embrace.

 

After about twenty minutes, we managed to get clear and went on into Macc where we winded in the broad bit where Peak Forest hire boats used to be, just by the new pontoons.

[furnessvale]

I hope the winding hole signs at Bollington will be re-instated to avoid having too many 'discussions' with the occupants of the wharf.

All agreed with the occupants who have stated they will also assist any boater a bit nervous about winding until the modifications are made.

 

YES, A2 size notices will be positioned so there will be no doubt that it is a winding hole.

 

Whilst I have worked on this project the main credit must go to the elderly (female) campaigner who is a real terrier in such matters!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[BruceinSanity]

After much robust "discussion" with CRT, involving a doughty campaigner of fairly mature years and others, I have pleasure in announcing that the winding hole at Bollington Wharf is now open again.

 

CRT have finally admitted that they were wrong and it always was a winding hole. It is usable now, but a couple of modifications will be made to the jetties to make things easier still. CRT have had to buy back a couple of moorings they allowed to be placed in the winding hole.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

This is excellent news, well done guys.

[Horace42]

Congratulations to those who petitioned CRT to get the winding hole officially recognised - and sign posted accordingly.

 

But what precedence does this set for dealing with CRT regarding their map for other winding holes - that are not winding holes - where everybody knows they are not winding holes - but use them anyway (in spite of No-Turning signs?) - because it is obvious here is room to wind a boat - if you follow what I mean.

 

This discussion has been prompted by CRT requests for info about winding holes - but as we can see - there are 'legal' things to resolve before giving 'official' status on a 'official' map to winding holes that are not 'official' - the likely result being to dodge the issue and leave them out.

 

What we need (is someone keen and able) to produce a 'WikiWindingHole' map - with or without CRT help.

[junior]

Do you think they want to know about winding holes where the towpath is let to long term moorings like the T&M at Bartington just north of Black Price boats.

Don't think that's an official winding hole. There is another one about 500m away, plus another at the breach site about 5mins away.

[ditchcrawler]

Don't think that's an official winding hole. There is another one about 500m away, plus another at the breach site about 5mins away.

I think its this one

 

Trent & Mersey Bartington Winding Hole Bridge 210, Dones Bridge TM-005-003

[FadeToScarlet]

Buy a Bantam, no winding hole required.

[archie57]

All agreed with the occupants who have stated they will also assist any boater a bit nervous about winding until the modifications are made.

 

YES, A2 size notices will be positioned so there will be no doubt that it is a winding hole.

 

Whilst I have worked on this project the main credit must go to the elderly (female) campaigner who is a real terrier in such matters!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

I will suggest to the good lady concerned that a statue of her is erected there! ( - and then run for cover!)