ditchcrawler Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Many years ago when we went down the Rochdale 9 I had to pay someone money, in a hut as I remember near the top for the pleasure. I would like to know who would I have paid , when and why did they stop charging,? If anyone knows I would be very grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoominPapa Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I recall paying about £20 when I did the Cheshire ring in 1985. My understanding was that I was paying the Rochdale canal company, but I have no idea why that wasn't nationalised then, but is now part of the CRT empire. MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 You'd have paid the Rochdale Canal Company - it wasn't nationalised with the rest of the network When the canal was restored throughout The Waterways Trust took it over (I think on a lease) and contracted the management to BW, at which point the national licence applied. BW and TWT have since merged. The canal reopened in 2001 but I think it was a couple of years before then that the canal was transferred and the charge removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearley Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 (edited) We too paid a man in a Hut in the car park by the top lock in 1980 when on a hire boat from Anderton - Canal & River craft I think. The boat was John Piper, all their boars being named after artists, including Two Loos Lautrect. The Rochdale Canal Company became a subsidiary of Leeds based Town Centre Securities plc. After a lot of negotiations the Rochdale Canal was transferred to the Waterways Trust on 16 March 2000. Edited May 14, 2016 by pearley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I recall paying about £20 when I did the Cheshire ring in 1985. My understanding was that I was paying the Rochdale canal company, but I have no idea why that wasn't nationalised then, but is now part of the CRT empire. MP. By 1947, the only traffic regular traffic was up the first few locks to the electric and hydraulic power stations, with traffic over the summit ending circa 1937. It was not considered worthwhile to go to the expense of nationalising the canal. The last regular coal traffic was by James Monk, ending in December 1957, though the Bridgewater used hired L&LC boats for removing building rubble the following year. James Hewitt's was the last boat mentioned in the lock book, having passed through the locks on 10 July 1961, though I think there were further boats, notably those associated with Peter Froud, when they were trying to keep the right of navigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebulae Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I also remember paying to transit the 9 locks.I seem to remember that a very old gent who was a Rochdale Canal Co employee,still living in the lock keepers house which straddles the canal? Also,I seem to remember that a section of towpath could only be accessed via a door ? Did we borrow a key? I cant remember. Must have been 1973/4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpie patrick Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 There was a fairly bitter campaign to save the Rochdale 9 in the sixties, I think at that time the concern was the connection with the Ashton rather than the rest of the Rochdale. Worrying to think that had the 9 been lost, so too would the Ashton and Lower Peak Forest, possibly the Upper Peak Forest and the Macc, and the Huddersfield and the Rochdale itself could never have been reopened. The Rodwell tower was built over the canal before abandonment was likely, had the canal been legally abandoned then other similar structures would have buried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire cat Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 When it was still owned by the Rochdale canal company they used to drain it every winter. i never saw any maintenance take place but the amount of rubbish in it was incredible. I remember paying in the late eighties. I don't think I started boating until 86. We hired from Claire Cruisers at Anderton. The boats were awful. They were dropped by Hoseasons the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 The other thing was a BW escort down the Ashton flight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearley Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 The other thing was a BW escort down the Ashton flightDon't recall that in 1980. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Don't recall that in 1980. I can't remember what year it was, Iwill try and find the photos to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 When it was still owned by the Rochdale canal company they used to drain it every winter. i never saw any maintenance take place but the amount of rubbish in it was incredible. I remember paying in the late eighties. I don't think I started boating until 86. We hired from Claire Cruisers at Anderton. The boats were awful. They were dropped by Hoseasons the following year. In my opinion, this was done with bad intent, the idea being that frost would get behind the wash walls to cause collapse and hasten the abandonment of the canal. The route through the centre of Manchester was, and still is, worth far more as real estate rather than a canal. Fortunately, the canal is made of sterner stuff and resisted all attempts to destroy it. George ex nb Alton retired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Davis Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 (edited) Did it in 1978 when we did the Cheshire Ring in a hire boat from Anderton. Got to the top and there was no-one at the shed at Ducie St so we carried on down and never actually paid anyone. Edited May 14, 2016 by Graham Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I can't remember what year it was, Iwill try and find the photos to see. It was between 1992 and 94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 (edited) http://www.waterwaysongs.co.uk/rochdale.htm Chorus :Locking down the Rochdale NineYou won‘t want to do it a second timeYour hands are all blistered, your shoulders in painAnd because you‘re in Manchester, down comes the rainWhen you‘re locking the Rochdale NineAt lock number 1 you pay thirty quidBy lock number 2 you‘ll regret that you didThey secure number 1 with a padlock and chainIn case you change your mind and turn back againWhen you‘re locking the Rochdale NineAt lock number 3 the towpath‘s not thereIn fact the canal‘s got far more than it‘s shareYou can‘t get across without straddling the gatesWhile the tillerman curses the rain as he waitsWhen you‘re locking the Rochdale NineChorusAt lock number 4 your feet get all wetBut at locks 5 and 6 they‘ll be much wetter yetAnd as for the scenery it‘s not worth two hootsAnd you‘d give a week‘s ale for a dry pair of bootsWhen you‘re locking the Rochdale NineIt‘s lock number 7, not one boat has passedThe water is lapping up right round your raftA local is helping ‘cos the top gate won‘t closeAnd his pet pit bull terrier‘s got hold of me clothesWhen you‘re locking the Rochdale NineChorusBy lock number 8 you‘ve given up hopeMoored to the lock-side by a short length of ropeThe gate‘s wide enough for the old QE2But the paddles are leaking so you crash your way throughWhen you‘re locking the Rochdale NineIt‘s lock number 9. Thank God, it‘s the end‘Cos most of your crew have gone right round the bendThey‘re shouting and cursing and swearing out loudThey sound like a part of the United crowdWhen you‘re locking the Rochdale NineLocking down the Rochdale NineYou won‘t want to do it a second timeYour hands are all blistered your shoulders in painAnd because you‘re in Manchester down comes the rainBut you‘ve finished the Rochdale Nine http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/rochdale/rc2.htm http://www.myrochdalecanal.org.uk/canal-history/ Edited May 14, 2016 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 http://www.waterwaysongs.co.uk/rochdale.htm Chorus : Locking down the Rochdale Nine You won‘t want to do it a second time Your hands are all blistered, your shoulders in pain And because you‘re in Manchester, down comes the rain When you‘re locking the Rochdale Nine At lock number 1 you pay thirty quid By lock number 2 you‘ll regret that you did They secure number 1 with a padlock and chain In case you change your mind and turn back again When you‘re locking the Rochdale Nine At lock number 3 the towpath‘s not there In fact the canal‘s got far more than it‘s share You can‘t get across without straddling the gates While the tillerman curses the rain as he waits When you‘re locking the Rochdale Nine Chorus At lock number 4 your feet get all wet But at locks 5 and 6 they‘ll be much wetter yet And as for the scenery it‘s not worth two hoots And you‘d give a week‘s ale for a dry pair of boots When you‘re locking the Rochdale Nine It‘s lock number 7, not one boat has passed The water is lapping up right round your raft A local is helping ‘cos the top gate won‘t close And his pet pit bull terrier‘s got hold of me clothes When you‘re locking the Rochdale Nine Chorus By lock number 8 you‘ve given up hope Moored to the lock-side by a short length of rope The gate‘s wide enough for the old QE2 But the paddles are leaking so you crash your way through When you‘re locking the Rochdale Nine It‘s lock number 9. Thank God, it‘s the end ‘Cos most of your crew have gone right round the bend They‘re shouting and cursing and swearing out loud They sound like a part of the United crowd When you‘re locking the Rochdale Nine Locking down the Rochdale Nine You won‘t want to do it a second time Your hands are all blistered your shoulders in pain And because you‘re in Manchester down comes the rain But you‘ve finished the Rochdale Nine I've got the CD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) That song is how we remembered it in '83. We took advice at Dukinfield to go down the Ashton around 5am, due to unwanted attention from the local youth who were apt to throw concrete fence posts on boats from certain bridges. This we did experiencing our first engagement with anti-vandal screw locks, and arrived at Ducie Street basin in crystal clear water and passing by a sunken hatchback (with open sun roof) . . . At Ducie Street where we had orignally planned to stay for a rally prior to the Wigan National to which we were heading, the nine were surveyed with some dismay - leaking gates, dry pounds, and the contents of a Council tip in the channel. Top gates were padlocked, and the local lockie advised us that the charge was £30 for passage payable to the Rochdale Canal Company, and we certainly would not be going down that day. We stayed put in the company of a few other boaters, while the local population - young and old - tried stoning the few fish that could be seen, and skimming across the water - 'clunk'. Later that evening another chap came by and informed us that from 5pm on, the Rochdale Canal Society took the reigns, and we were further advised that by judicious clearing of the bywash gratings of the lower Ashton flight of weeds and rubbish, a further increase in water supply for the nine could improve levels overnight - but don't get caught by the lockie! The evening of the following day saw enough water to navigate, and deciding not to linger for the rally there, we paid our £30, going down in convoy with one other boat. Gates were bad, lock gear liable to slip so paddles had to be held up with the windlass on. Some pounds were so low we couldn't get out the lock being stuck on rubbish, then the back wash would come and lift us and drag us over all manner of stuff causing great screeching against our wooden bottoms (still composite then). One lock was being used as a swimming pool by local youth, very upset at seeing boats and their pool being 'emptied'. Glad to get into Castle Basin which itself was still derelict, and away from the area keeping a good watch on the bilge and any unwanted action from the automatic pump!! It's changed a lot since then, at least cosmetically, but not a place I'd want to boat again. I'm sure the rest of the Rochdale is lovely, but the 'nine' - no thanks. Edited May 15, 2016 by Derek R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearley Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 I'd forgotten the paddle gear. Recall having to pick bits of wood from the lock side to jam in the rock to stop it dropping back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarUKKiwi Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Many years ago when we went down the Rochdale 9 I had to pay someone money, in a hut as I remember near the top for the pleasure. I would like to know who would I have paid , when and why did they stop charging,? If anyone knows I would be very grateful. The Rochdale Canal was owned by NCP Carparks, they sold(?) It back to BW, the resevoirs were also sold to private company, hence the Rochdale struggles with water supply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearley Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 The Rochdale Canal was owned by NCP Carports. Do you have a source for this? According to the written history of the restoration of the canal there was much discussion between Town Centre Securities, British Waterways, The Waterways Trust and the Local Authorities about the transfer of the canal to the Waterways Trust. I know there is a car park at Dale Street by the canal company offices but this is operated by Town Centre Car Parks who, according to Google, are owned by Town Centre Securities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 The Rochdale Canal was owned by NCP Carparks, they sold(?) It back to BW, the resevoirs were also sold to private company, hence the Rochdale struggles with water supply Seven of the canal's eight reservoirs were sold to local water authorities under the 1923 Rochdale Canal Act, reflecting the decline in trade on the canal after they gave up being general carriers in 1921. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mac Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 The Rochdale Canal - The Manchester 9. As already stated the RCC was not nationalised as it was not seen as having a future in 1947, as the full length was being requested to be closed in an act, which eventually passed in 1952, but ended up excluded the Manchester 9. Thus it escaped nationalisation. As Pluto has already said the last traffic was in the very early sixties. In 1966 the Rochdale Canal Co applied again for abandonment of the Manchester 9 to Parliament. This caused a group of canal devotees to get a traffic and using the right of navigation force a way through. The traffic was to just above lock 86 and the old gas works arm (now under the school of Business) Having got there they then had to get another traffic which they got from O'Sullivans Scrap yard in Ducie St so they could continue to the top of the nine and wind, as the RCC would not let them go to the top, before they got this traffic. The result of this passage was that the act was passed for the abandonment, but it was linked to the abandonment of the Ashton Canal happening. The Ashton was then effectively closed by a pipe being installed over a leaking Store St aqueduct. The people involved in forcing the boat through included Pete Froud, can't remember the other names, at the moment, my be Bev Portman, was another. After this Bessie Bunker and the IWPS campaigned to keep the canal open, for a while. Having once managed to get a boat through, other local activists took up the mantel and would attempt to navigate the canal each year. The main group doing this were people from Worsley Cruising Club, the big William would be one of the boats another was a small fibreglass cruiser called Tiger Lily. They would pay a toll for each boat, of I think £10, for a return passage, to attempt to get to Dale St from the Bridgewater, I don't think they managed it in 1967. It was a full days task, as it use to involve removing lots of rubbish from the chambers and patching the bottom gates so the locks would fill. The RCC would provide their lock Keeper Harold Williams who lived in the lockhouse just below lock 86. On Palm weekend in 1971 the PFCS and others, organised a 100 boats to go up and down the Manchester 9 to a rally in Manchester Dale St and Duice St Basins to campaign for the reopening of the Ashton. By this time the right of navigation had been lost on most canals and Rivers through the 1968 Transport act - not the Rochdale though, due to its suspended abandonment! The result of the rally was that the Ashton and Lower Peak Forest were then restored. The PFCS then helped to make the Manchester 9 navigable, post the opening of the rest of the Cheshire ring. The RCC by this stage was owned by the Property Tycoon, Mr Ziff and his Company Town Centre Securities (TCS). He was selling off and developing the large land holding of the RCC. Some new gates were fitted to the Manchester 9 in 1975, post the volunteers of the PFCS clearing all the lock chambers. The Fee was now £15 for a single way passage of the Manchester 9 In 1974 the Rochdale Canal Society was formed to campaign for the restoration of the rest of the whole canal, although Manchester City Council had only just opened their linear water park from just above lock 82 to above lock 69 where the canal passed into the old Failsworth council area, now part of Oldham MBC. The only other length not converted into this shallow concrete water tray in Manchester was the pound above lock 78 which was used for a water supply to the local "Blue Works" Also the length from Piccadily basin to just above lock 82 Great Ancoats, was not touched and just left to fester. Another group came into being The Ashton Canal Society, they worked on the bottom end of Ashton and the Manchester 9 and were responsible for clearing the 18hp Waterwheel which drives the hoists in the warehouse still standing in Dale St. As the ring became more popular the RCC increased their toll each year approx in line with inflation, odd battles happened when further lock gates needed to be replaced. RCS attempted to start the restoration of locks 83 and 82. In the later 1980's the RCS started to get the canal reopened from Sowerby bridge end, and then all of a sudden the impossible happened and the millennium commission came up with the money to fully reopen the canal, this was basically from Littlebrough through to Manchester City centre, unfortunately this was based on voluntary labour costings and it was done professionally, so there was a substantial shortfall in funds required, meaning all though it was opened, it was not fully restored!. As a part of this deal the whole canal was going to become part of British Waterways, via the Waterways Trust. So a deal was reached with TCS to transfer it to WT and also with Manchester Corp to Transfer their length to WT. Interestingly only the water element of the canal was transferred and is now owned by C&RT, the towpath is still owned by Manchester City Council. I belive a CPO was part of the mechanism used, but don't know where I heard that. The Staff working for RCC were also transfer to the WT and then C&RT. When this happened the collection of the toll by the Car park attendant stopped, and the canal became part of the BW licence. Interestingly the number of boats recorded using the Manchester 9 significantly increased to be in-line with those using the Ashton. A major fraud was also discovered over the car parking fees for the Dale St Car Park. This may explain why we struggled justifying the number of passages though the Manchester 9 to TCS, for so many years. The escorting of boats on the Ashton happened after a diplomat on holiday on a hire boat in the late 70's was robbed, mainly as they had all their wealth on display and all the doors open, it was like market day for the local scrots. Said diplomat was very upset and contacted the foreign office, who called the home office, who got the police out, and had to be seen to be doing something, so patrolled the canal for a while!The rumours spread. PCSO still patrol both the Rochdale and the Ashton canals, as its an easy walk from the main nick. There are talks happening about the summit reservoirs between UU and C&RT and the EA, its all to do with cost of maintenance and who pays, and flood management. C&RT do not want to pick up unmaintained reservoirs from UU! -- cheers Ian Mac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughc Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 If my memory serves me correctly we were, as an empty trading boat, allowed a free passage up the nine in the 70's. This was in the Avon en-route to an early Tameside festival. The following year however, because we were carrying a token barrel of beer to facilitate a T.V. programme, we had to pay. Regards, HughC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 I am glad I asked the question, so much has come out about it, Thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Taylor Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 That's is very interesting. Thank you Ian Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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