What are the Cruising guidelines for a boater WITH a home mooring?

[Frazzer999]

Hey Fellow boaters,

 

If a boater has a home mooring, I've read on several posts that they can cruise A-B-A-B (A = home mooring) but I've not managed to find anything official by the CRT about this anyone know of a link to a something that comfirm can this?

 

Apologies if this has been covered already and thanks in advance for any help!

[StarUKKiwi]

Read the Terms and Conditions with your licence - it's on there - continuous journey stopping nowhere longer than 14 days, your log is reset apparently, when you return to your home mooring.

However, the Act of Parliament makes no such assertion

Edited May 12, 2016 by StarUKKiwi

[Tony Dunkley]

Buying a boat Licence from C&RT entitles you to the use of the waterways for which they are the navigation authority in exactly the same way as 'licensing' a motor vehicle entitles you to to use it on public roads.

 

A few of the Licence T&C's that C&RT publish are re-iterations of some of the General Canal Byelaws, but the majority of them are nothing but unenforceable garbage, and should be treated as such.

[manxmike]

I may be a bit slow, but I don't understand the question.

 

Surely common sense says that if you have a home mooring then you probably (possibly) spend some time moored there, otherwise you evidently have more money than sense.

 

Therefore most of the time if you are off your home mooring you are either on your way from or to there (via some interesting places in between) and do not intend to stay more than a reasonable length of time in one place.

 

Or am I being naive and slow?

[Athy]

I may be a bit slow, but I don't understand the question.

 

Surely common sense says that if you have a home mooring then you probably (possibly) spend some time moored there, otherwise you evidently have more money than sense.

 

Therefore most of the time if you are off your home mooring you are either on your way from or to there (via some interesting places in between) and do not intend to stay more than a reasonable length of time in one place.

 

Or am I being naive and slow?

Only slightly, I think. I believe that in some places boats are not allowed to return to popular visitor moorings within a certain time (a week?) after they have moored there, so that A-B-A-B movements are severely restricted. This may apply in peak seasons only; I guess that this is the sort of situation on which Frazzer requires guidance.

[Murflynn]

Buying a boat Licence from C&RT entitles you to the use of the waterways for which they are the navigation authority in exactly the same way as 'licensing' a motor vehicle entitles you to to use it on public roads.

 

A few of the Licence T&C's that C&RT publish are re-iterations of some of the General Canal Byelaws, but the majority of them are nothing but unenforceable garbage, and should be treated as such.

well that's really helpful. NOT !!

 

 

Surely common sense says that if you have a home mooring then you probably (possibly) spend some time moored there, otherwise you evidently have more money than sense.

 

 

unless your 'home mooring' is actually a ghost mooring.

[junior]

Only slightly, I think. I believe that in some places boats are not allowed to return to popular visitor moorings within a certain time (a week?) after they have moored there, so that A-B-A-B movements are severely restricted. This may apply in peak seasons only; I guess that this is the sort of situation on which Frazzer requires guidance.

But that would be stipulated (and I don't think it enforceable (Tony?) by the signage at the mooring ie., "no return withing 7 days") and nothing to do with licence T&C's.

[Idunhoe]

In an attempt to address the original question

You may keep your boat on its home mooring, be that Marina, boat club, farmers field or end of garden, for as long as you wish. But once away from that mooring you are subject to the same conditions and restrictions as someone without a home mooring, for example limited to only fourteen days in any one place, unless other restrictions apply.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Idunhoe

[Alan de Enfield]

Hey Fellow boaters,

 

If a boater has a home mooring, I've read on several posts that they can cruise A-B-A-B (A = home mooring) but I've not managed to find anything official by the CRT about this anyone know of a link to a something that comfirm can this?

 

Apologies if this has been covered already and thanks in advance for any help!

 

The 1995 Waterways Act makes specific mention that boats WITHOUT a home mooring MUST be in a new PLACE every (within) 14 days.

 

There is NO SUCH requirement (in Law) for boats with a home mooring.

C&RTs T&Cs allow boats with a home mooring to moor on their towpath for up to 14 days ( they do not legally have to do this for boats WITH a home mooring, but, by law, they must allow it for boats WITHOUT a home mooring)

 

In summary - a boat with a home mooring may moor on the towpath for up to 14 days, and then it must move. It does not have to move to a new PLACE, just a new LOCATION (which may be a few hundred yards further on).

 

C&RT are now, illegally, trying to enforce Boat WITHOUT a Home Mooring rules onto Boats WITH a home mooring.

 

You can see the problems - the 1995 Act does not define how far apart 'places' are, and the law allows boats WITH a home mooring to not move very far.

 

Normally, for boats WITH a home mooring, moving is not an issue. The majority of boaters with a home mooring can only use their boats for short periods (weekends, odd weeks, extended holidays) and when out & about want to get a move on and see things.

However - for those who want to 'play the system' they can.

 

As the Judge said in the C&RT Vs Mayers case :

 

6:3 There are clear anomalies in both positions, CRT clearly regard the occupation of moorings by permanently residential boat owners who do not move very much as a significant problem (see paragraphs 3.5 and 3.6 above). However, neither the statutory regime in subsection 17(3) nor the guidelines can deal with this problem. A boat which has a home mooring is not required to be “bona fide” used for navigation throughout the period of the licence, but neither is it required to ever use its home mooring. The act requires that the mooring is available, it does not say it must be used. The guidelines also have this effect. The boat is still subject to the restriction that it must not stay in the same place for more than 14 days but there is nothing whatever to stop it being shuffled between two locations quite close together provided they are far enough apart to constitute different places. If those who are causing the overcrowding at popular spots have home moorings anywhere in the country the present regime cannot control their overuse of the popular spots. Such an owner could cruise to and fro along the Kennet & Avon canal near Bristol and the home mooring could be in Birmingham and totally unused.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[dor]

It's really very easy. AS has been said, your record is 'reset' when you return to your mooring. While you are out you should not stay in any one place more than 14 days. You can however go out for many months (as many people do) as long as you don't overstay anywhere.

 

Be aware though that C&RT know about "Ghost moorings". These are where people take up a cheap mooring somewhere just to say they have a mooring, then basically try bridge-hopping or overstaying somewhere else.

[Sea Dog]

In answer to the original question, here's what I do: every now and then look at the calendar to decide if it really is time to go home, put it off for a bit, then eventually sigh and do it. They're my cruising guidelines anyway.

[MtB]

Buying a boat Licence from C&RT entitles you to the use of the waterways for which they are the navigation authority in exactly the same way as 'licensing' a motor vehicle entitles you to to use it on public roads.

 

A few of the Licence T&C's that C&RT publish are re-iterations of some of the General Canal Byelaws, but the majority of them are nothing but unenforceable garbage, and should be treated as such.

 

 

The point Tony is getting at but fails to spell out, is that if you fail to meet the cruising guidelines set out in your 'home moorers' licence, CRT's likely response is to refuse you a new licence on expiry.

 

He then also fails to point out that CRT are legally obliged to grant you a licence if you fulfill the three basic requirements in 17 (c ) iii of the Waterways Act (these being a BSS, insurance and having a home mooring). This means you are in theory, free to ignore all of the T&Cs you sign up to, including the one that says you must cruise in the same manner as a CCer when away from your home mooring.

 

So basically if you have a genuine home mooring then your can still bridge hop if that suits you, but you *might* end up in a legal fight with CRT should they refuse to renew your licence. A fight you will win if you play it correctly.

 

But do you want that fight?

[plainsman]

I recall a couple of years (?) Ago the then BW published a map that defined PLACE(s) around the system. Designed to 'help' boaters. Have looked on CRT site but no trace. Does anyone else recall same? Is it still valid?

[Alan de Enfield]

recall a couple of years (?) Ago the then BW published a map that defined PLACE(s) around the system. Designed to 'help' boaters. Have looked on CRT site but no trace. Does anyone else recall same?

YES

 

 

Is it still valid? NO - withdrawn

Edited May 12, 2016 by Theo

[Paul C]

I recall a couple of years (?) Ago the then BW published a map that defined PLACE(s) around the system. Designed to 'help' boaters. Have looked on CRT site but no trace. Does anyone else recall same? Is it still valid?

 

BW/CRT didn't publish it. It was leaked by another organisation which had access to the map, which was under consideration and never officially made public.

[plainsman]

 

Thanks for response. My reason for asking is I recently had an email from CRT telling me my boat had been in same 'general location' for over 14 days. Have since tried to get clarification from CRT of what is same general location but no luck. I admit although boat was being moved the distances were only a couple of miles. As CRT seem to be making an issue re overstays, justified in some cases, it would avoid a lot of conflict if a definition was made. OK had my moan, sorry to unload it on you.

Cheers

 

PS I am not live aboard and I have a genuine marina home mooring

[Athy]

 

PS I am not live aboard and I have a genuine marina home mooring

...in which case, if you wish to reply, you can surely say to CART, "Yes, I know. I was on board at the time, enjoying the waterways in accordance with the regulations".

[Tony Dunkley]

I recall a couple of years (?) Ago the then BW published a map that defined PLACE(s) around the system. Designed to 'help' boaters. Have looked on CRT site but no trace. Does anyone else recall same? Is it still valid?

 

Thanks for response. My reason for asking is I recently had an email from CRT telling me my boat had been in same 'general location' for over 14 days. Have since tried to get clarification from CRT of what is same general location but no luck. I admit although boat was being moved the distances were only a couple of miles. As CRT seem to be making an issue re overstays, justified in some cases, it would avoid a lot of conflict if a definition was made. OK had my moan, sorry to unload it on you.

Cheers

 

PS I am not live aboard and I have a genuine marina home mooring

 

Nothing that C&RT have published was ever intended to be helpful, and that includes the map that you've referred to. It was simply another by-product of their quest to invent and enforce rules and conditions which go well beyond their statutory powers, and the recent E-mail they've sent you about being in the same 'general location' is just another manifestation of the same pointless obsession.

 

In January 2014, C&RT unlawfully revoked my PBC [ the registration certificate they fraudulently misrepresent as a 'Rivers only Licence'] and Section 8'd my boat on similar grounds, and extent of boat usage, as they have cited in the E-mail recently sent to you.

The ensuing legal action was discontinued before coming to trial, made C&RT look really stupid, and cost them in excess of £15,000.

If they go for a re-run of the same needless and futile process with you and your boat, then you are in a position to achieve the same outcome.

 

You should not allow C&RT to intimidate you into refraining from exercising the right to use your boat in the lawful manner that you are doing, and to which your Licence entitles you.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[Tony Dunkley]

 

BW/CRT didn't publish it. It was leaked by another organisation which had access to the map, which was under consideration and never officially made public.

 

It was published by C&RT, and they supplemented it with a facility on their website by which anyone feeling the need to comply with all their "places" nonsense could request and receive large scale maps of parts of all their waterways by E-mail.

I got several of them covering the area that I'm in, and if I remember correctly there was one "place" which extended over almost 30 miles of the Trent, which according to C&RT is in fact a 'canal' from Beeston Lock to the upper limit of navigation at Shardlow.

[plainsman]

Nothing that C&RT have published was ever intended to be helpful, and that includes the map that you've referred to. It was simply another by-product of their quest to invent and enforce rules and conditions which go well beyond their statutory powers, and the recent E-mail they've sent you about being in the same 'general location' is just another manifestation of the same pointless obsession.

 

In January 2014, C&RT unlawfully revoked my PBC [ the registration certificate they fraudulently misrepresent as a 'Rivers only Licence'] and Section 8'd my boat on similar grounds, and extent of boat usage, as they have cited in the E-mail recently sent to you.

The ensuing legal action was discontinued before coming to trial, made C&RT look really stupid, and cost them in excess of £15,000.

If they go for a re-run of the same needless and futile process with you and your boat, then you are in a position to achieve the same outcome.

 

You should not allow C&RT to intimidate you into refraining from exercising the right to use your boat in the lawful manner that you are doing, and to which your Licence entitles you.

Criky Tony, what anexperience. Thanks for the info, as always advice is to stand up to bullies whoever they are

[Guest]

Criky Tony, what anexperience. Thanks for the info, as always advice is to stand up to bullies whoever they are

Assuming you can afford to of course....

 

Or can get your legal support for free.

[Tony Dunkley]

Criky Tony, what anexperience. Thanks for the info, as always advice is to stand up to bullies whoever they are

 

C&RT have little stomach for testing their fanciful interpretations of various pieces of waterways legislation in a Court of law, and if faced with the prospect of having to do so, will almost invariably look for a way out.

 

If they do persist in making an issue out of their apparent disapproval of the way that you use your boat, then please get in touch. A suitably amended version [to make it applicable to you, your boat and your circumstances] of the written Defence that frightened them into discontinuing the action against me in 2014 is readily available to anyone who finds themselves in need of it.

 

Ps.

If anyone needs to contact me for any reason whilst I'm enjoying one of my routine periods of banishment from this Forum, then I am available via E-mail at ~ tony@canalrivertransport.com

Edited June 4, 2016 by Lady Cassandra

[cuthound]

A very generous offer Tony, have a greenie!

[zigspider]

And another from me Tony..

[Jrtm]

Im i correct that for instanceif i have a home mooring a the go boating for a 2 days leave the boat at b 10 days move the boat back to a then a week later a friend /fam uses the boat and does exactly the same journey same time scales im asuming this would be ok as we plan to moor where there are 3-4 close routes so we can have weekends out but will return to home mooring between but may do the same trip a few times in a row leaving the boat close to the same place. E.g. go out leave a week come back to base then do the same the week after but next time do a diffrent route