Licence conditions

[Bod]

To get a licence, I need,

1 Current BSS

2 Current insurance

3 Payment

 

All agreed?

 

Now I buy my licence in January.

BSS runs out in May

Insurance ends in June

 

Is my licence valid in July? (assuming for what ever reason I have not renewed either BSS or insurance)

 

Would this be flagged up anywhere?

 

Bod

[MtB]

You missed one off.

 

4) Satisfy the Board "that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid"

[David Mack]

The Terms and Conditions require that you comply with the BSS requirements and have third party insurance of at least £2m at all times. But they only (usually) check when you apply for/renew your licence.

[Athy]

To get a licence, I need,

1 Current BSS

2 Current insurance

3 Payment

 

All agreed?

 

Now I buy my licence in January.

BSS runs out in May

Insurance ends in June

 

Is my licence valid in July? (assuming for what ever reason I have not renewed either BSS or insurance)

 

Would this be flagged up anywhere?

 

Bod

My guess - and it is only that - is that your licence would remain valid as long as you did not move the boat, as the BSC shows that the boat is suitable for navigation, or at least was on the day on which the examination was carried out.

[Paul C]

To get a licence, I need,

1 Current BSS

2 Current insurance

3 Payment

 

All agreed?

 

Now I buy my licence in January.

BSS runs out in May

Insurance ends in June

 

Is my licence valid in July? (assuming for what ever reason I have not renewed either BSS or insurance)

 

Would this be flagged up anywhere?

 

Bod

 

If you want an exact answer, then its worth mentioning a new boat can have an RCD and not BSS for (I think) the first 4 years, similar to how new cars only need an MoT on their 3rd anniversary of registration.

 

And if you want the exact answer, its worth reading yourself the underlying legislation: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1995/1/enacted

 

Section 17(3) is the bit you want to read.

[WarringtonWhite]

From the CRT T&C's

 

" 5. Boat Safety and Insurance 5.1 The Boat must comply with the Boat Safety Scheme requirements (set out in Schedule 1 below) at all times. 5.2 You must have in force an insurance policy for the Boat, provided by a company that is authorised and regulated by the UK Financial Conduct Authority, which covers third-party liabilities of at least two million pounds. The insurance cover must be maintained for the full duration of the Licence."

 

Schedule 1#

"BOAT SAFETY: STANDARDS FOR CONSTRUCTION AND EQUIPMENT There is a legal requirement for boats to comply with the Trust’s standards for construction and equipment (appended). You are responsible for making sure that the Boat is maintained so that it complies with the required standards at all times. To protect the safety of all our customers, we may operate a spot check on the fuel, gas and electrical installations on board any boat which we have reason to believe no longer meets the required standards. If we believe the Boat is dangerous, we may terminate your Licence and you will have to remove it from the Waterways. If you fail to remove the Boat from our Waterways, we can do so at your expense. When applying for a boat licence, you must produce evidence that the Boat meets these standards.

 

Acceptable evidence is one of the following:

 confirmation that the Boat complies with Boat Safety Scheme standards. This must be appropriate for the purpose for which the Boat is used. Please remember that any alterations, modifications or a lack of good maintenance may mean that the evidence of compliance is no longer valid.

 a current Declaration of Conformity with the EU Recreational Craft Directive which shows the specification of the Boat. This declaration must be less than four years old (one year for ‘sailaways’).

 In respect of boaters who have completed the CRT form declaring an exemption from the Boat Safety Scheme standards, we may from time to time carry out random checks and we reserve the right to inspect the Boat and/or to require further evidence or information from such boaters to validate that the exemption applies.

 

When renewing your Licence, the reminder we send you shows the issue and expiry date of the evidence that we currently hold for the Boat. If the evidence is still valid, you do not need to enclose it with your licence application. But if the evidence has expired, you must enclose new evidence of compliance with your application."

 

Hope that helps a bit !!

here are the T&C's you sign up to

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/5962.pdf

Edited April 19, 2016 by WarringtonWhite

[Dave Payne]

I renewed my license this month as it expired in March, my insurance ran till 12th April, they did not ask for new insurance details to be sent, i have renewed my insurance and updated this on the licence website.

 

 

[Paul C]

I renewed my license this month as it expired in March, my insurance ran till 12th April, they did not ask for new insurance details to be sent, i have renewed my insurance and updated this on the licence website.

 

 

 

They don't actively check insurance, just trust that you have it. They check a "sample" for it, but not all.

[Dave Payne]

 

They don't actively check insurance, just trust that you have it. They check a "sample" for it, but not all.

 

 

You have to complete the details through, so if you faked them then i guess you can lose your licence.

 

Not worth the risk in my eyes.

[PENTARGON SPRINGER]

BOD.The answer to the EXACT question you asked, as you asked it! is If you bought your licence in Jan (2016?) for a year ie til 31st Dec 2016. You are LICENCED. At the time of licencing you satisfied C&RT that the boat (for which the licence was requested) had a valid BSS and was insured. The licence is "permission" to float on water controlled by C&RT and nothing else. I'm sure your question is somewhat academic as no doubt you'll have the boat certified for safety when the current cert runs out (May?) and will renew you insurance in or from June?.

Edited April 19, 2016 by PENTARGON SPRINGER

[Alan de Enfield]

If you were so minded all you actually need to do is send the money.

 

You can invent an address for your home mooring

You can fabricate a 'likely looking' insurance certificate number

You can dream up a BSSC number,

 

Or you can just use your 'mates' details.

 

I would speculate that not having an 'in-date' insurance policy or BSSC would invalidate your licence.

 

Or you can play by the rules and do it all properly.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

BOD.The answer to the EXACT question you asked, as you asked it! is If you bought your licence in Jan (2016?) for a year ie til 31st Dec 2016. You are LICENCED.

 

 

Quite. But on expiry of the insurance and BSS the OP will be in breach of the T&Cs, for which his licence can be revoked.

 

As discussed in another thread, there is a set procedure for this including serving 28 days notice requiring him to remedy the breach. Until the notice expires, the boat will remain licenced.

[Paul C]

 

 

You have to complete the details through, so if you faked them then i guess you can lose your licence.

 

Not worth the risk in my eyes.

 

Well yes, but the only incentive to fake them would be that you don't have insurance. Much more likely is that you made a slip on the details so the check failed, or your insurance ran out mid-licence and you never realised. It happens all the time in the car analogy, but they have (for ages) checked insurance is in place for 100% of road tax applications. Of course that system is not perfect and it can still run out mid-term.

If you were so minded all you actually need to do is send the money.

 

You can invent an address for your home mooring

You can fabricate a 'likely looking' insurance certificate number

You can dream up a BSSC number,

 

Or you can just use your 'mates' details.

 

I would speculate that not having an 'in-date' insurance policy or BSSC would invalidate your licence.

 

Or you can play by the rules and do it all properly.

 

Also worth mentioning that deliberately faking details such as insurance or BSS might also attract a "Fraud" charge over & above the not-having-a-licence issue.

[Horace42]

To get a licence, I need,

1 Current BSS

2 Current insurance

3 Payment

 

All agreed?

 

Now I buy my licence in January.

BSS runs out in May

Insurance ends in June

 

Is my licence valid in July? (assuming for what ever reason I have not renewed either BSS or insurance)

 

Would this be flagged up anywhere?

 

Bod

For admin reasons, if the various documents are valid at the time of application, the license will be issued. It is your responsibility to ensure that they remain valid for the period of the license.

[pearley]

From my experience in the past, there are 2 occasions when they check insurance. Booking the Anderton Lift and booking the Liverpool Link.

[Paul C]

My experience of the Anderton lift is they do a basic check to view a valid licence in the window of the boat (ie they don't do it on their computer); if it fails this test they can be persuaded to go and check the boat has a valid licence by either telephoning (in the past) or (more recently) have a facility to check on a computer in their office.

[Bod]

To get a licence, I need,

1 Current BSS

2 Current insurance

3 Payment

 

All agreed?

 

Now I buy my licence in January.

BSS runs out in May

Insurance ends in June

 

Is my licence valid in July? (assuming for what ever reason I have not renewed either BSS or insurance)

 

Would this be flagged up anywhere?

 

Bod

 

How likely in this case, am I going to be searched out, by a hell fire breathing enforcement officer, dead set on getting me off his water?

Or would I have to get on the radar some other way?

 

Bod

[Paul C]

 

How likely in this case, am I going to be searched out, by a hell fire breathing enforcement officer, dead set on getting me off his water?

Or would I have to get on the radar some other way?

 

Bod

 

You've quoted a post which is factually incorrect, because there is an additional requirement regarding home mooring/CCing. Insurance and BSS are fairly black/white issues - you either have them or you don't, normally. The home mooring/CC issue relies on CRT being "satisfied" which is of course subjective, indeed its fair to say its generated an amount of debate here and elsewhere.

 

You've not stated whether you'll want a home mooring or CCing. If you have a home mooring, its undoubtedly far easier to "satisfy" the board on it, unless its something odd/unusual.

[matty40s]

You missed one off.

 

4) Satisfy the Board "that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid"

not if the OP has a mooring

[Bod]

Ok, to come clean.

I started this topic, rather than derail the "Tadworth" thread, to see what the effect on a licence would be, should certain requirements cease to be valid.

The answer seems to be, nobody really knows.

Thanks to all that replied.

 

Bod

Whose boat is fully up to date, and will remain so, memory allowing!

[ditchcrawler]

 

Well yes, but the only incentive to fake them would be that you don't have insurance. Much more likely is that you made a slip on the details so the check failed, or your insurance ran out mid-licence and you never realised. It happens all the time in the car analogy, but they have (for ages) checked insurance is in place for 100% of road tax applications. Of course that system is not perfect and it can still run out mid-term.

And if the Old Bill pulls you after the MOT or Insurance has run out, Your Nicked, as they say.

[MtB]

not if the OP has a mooring

 

 

In which case he'll still have to 'satisfy the board' that its a valid home mooring and not a sham.

[ditchcrawler]

From my experience in the past, there are 2 occasions when they check insurance. Booking the Anderton Lift and booking the Liverpool Link.

I don't recall my insurance being checked when I used the lift. I was somewhat surprised they didn't use the same system as licencing so didn't have my details.

[Paul C]

Ok, to come clean.

I started this topic, rather than derail the "Tadworth" thread, to see what the effect on a licence would be, should certain requirements cease to be valid.

The answer seems to be, nobody really knows.

Thanks to all that replied.

 

Bod

Whose boat is fully up to date, and will remain so, memory allowing!

 

It (the licence) remains valid until CRT 1) find out about the lack of BSS or insurance 2) issue the appropriate notice under 17(4) giving you 28 days to rectify the defect and 3) that 28 day period lapses without the rectification of it, or simply 4) it runs out (of time) anyway. Worth mentioning that because they don't check insurance at the time of licence application, they may check it randomly at any time of the licence period, so if you were unlucky enough to forget it lapsed AND for CRT to check it (I think they only look at 10%, or 1%, or something) you could find yourself in trouble. But then you'd have 28 days to sort it out. Also insurance carries conditions, so you might find that the insurance company deem it cancelled if you broke those conditions. And they might forget to send you a letter in the post; or the dog eat it, etc.

[onionbargee]

From the CRT T&C's

 

" 5. Boat Safety and Insurance 5.1 The Boat must comply with the Boat Safety Scheme requirements (set out in Schedule 1 below) at all times. 5.2 You must have in force an insurance policy for the Boat, provided by a company that is authorised and regulated by the UK Financial Conduct Authority, which covers third-party liabilities of at least two million pounds. The insurance cover must be maintained for the full duration of the Licence."

 

Schedule 1#

"BOAT SAFETY: STANDARDS FOR CONSTRUCTION AND EQUIPMENT There is a legal requirement for boats to comply with the Trusts standards for construction and equipment (appended). You are responsible for making sure that the Boat is maintained so that it complies with the required standards at all times. To protect the safety of all our customers, we may operate a spot check on the fuel, gas and electrical installations on board any boat which we have reason to believe no longer meets the required standards. If we believe the Boat is dangerous, we may terminate your Licence and you will have to remove it from the Waterways. If you fail to remove the Boat from our Waterways, we can do so at your expense. When applying for a boat licence, you must produce evidence that the Boat meets these standards.

 

Acceptable evidence is one of the following:

confirmation that the Boat complies with Boat Safety Scheme standards. This must be appropriate for the purpose for which the Boat is used. Please remember that any alterations, modifications or a lack of good maintenance may mean that the evidence of compliance is no longer valid.

a current Declaration of Conformity with the EU Recreational Craft Directive which shows the specification of the Boat. This declaration must be less than four years old (one year for sailaways).

In respect of boaters who have completed the CRT form declaring an exemption from the Boat Safety Scheme standards, we may from time to time carry out random checks and we reserve the right to inspect the Boat and/or to require further evidence or information from such boaters to validate that the exemption applies.

 

When renewing your Licence, the reminder we send you shows the issue and expiry date of the evidence that we currently hold for the Boat. If the evidence is still valid, you do not need to enclose it with your licence application. But if the evidence has expired, you must enclose new evidence of compliance with your application."

 

Hope that helps a bit !!

 

here are the T&C's you sign up to

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/5962.pdf

The licence terms and conditions are extremely misleading, if not downright bogus, and presents only their side of the legislation, or their fantasy of what they would like it to be. Unless they are all gone through one by one and cross checked with the legislation, and a true t & c's document put together the whole thing is only fit for the bin.

 

Not something I have the time or the expertees to do.