Inconsiderate cycling is a bigger problem than overstayers ?

[wishful]

It's disappointing to see so many people on here advocating the prohibition of cycling on the tow path. To those suggesting measures to deliberately harm cyclists, I suggest you first try them on yourself to determine their efficacy.

 

As a significant proportion of CaRT's income is derived from general taxation, cyclists subsidise the boaters lifestyle and pay for maintenance and improvement of the canal infrastructure.

 

I am unaware of any KSI incidents involving cyclists on the tow path, on the other hand I am aware of a number of KSI incidents involving boaters and locks. It follows that prohibiting the use of locks by boaters would have a greater impact on the wellbeing of canal users than the banning of cyclists. Furthermore, displacing those cyclists from the tow path onto the roads puts them at greater risk of becoming a KSI statistic.

 

Personally, I would welcome an increase in the number of tow path cyclists so that the small minority of thoughtless cyclists are exposed more widely to good cycling behaviour.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Furthermore, displacing those cyclists from the tow path onto the roads puts them at greater risk of becoming a KSI statistic.

 

This is the crucial point.

 

At the risk of trying to understand rather than condemn (heretical thinking, I know), it might be enlightening to consider why cyclists use the towpath. Is it:

1. Because they like ducks?
2. Because they want to wind up kris88?
3. Or because they consider it a safer way of getting from A to B than the roads?

1 and 2 are both worthwhile reasons, but I'm pretty sure 3 is the reason for most people. The Regent's Canal is a case in point. Until the new East-West Cycle Superhighway is finished, the Regent's is the only traffic-free cross-town cycle route there is: and you only need to look at the number of fatal accidents involving cyclists and construction lorries to understand why people might be nervous about riding on London's roads. Hence the popularity of the towpath.

 

Better signage, rumble strips etc. might have some effect, but only a very limited one. For most people, self-preservation trumps mild discomfort any time.

 

The only way you're going to get cyclists off the towpaths, and back onto the roads, is by making the roads survivable, pleasant even. On all but the quietest roads, that means 'segregated' or 'protected' space, such that a cyclist is not pushed into close proximity with a tipper lorry or white van. It's eminently doable; it's how they do things in the Netherlands and Denmark, and an increasing number of cities around the world.

 

It's starting to happen in London and a few other locations in the UK (e.g. Leicester). The East-West and North-South superhighways in London are segregated routes, currently under construction. But that's just two routes in one city. Most times you want to get from A to B by bike in Britain, you'll encounter some resolutely cycle-hostile roads.

 

So if you want to get cyclists off the towpath, the best thing you can do is lobby your local authority for better cycling provision on the roads. Not the shared-use pavements and cursory painted on-road lanes that many councils like to put in, but real Dutch-style safe provision.

[Sir Nibble]

I agree with Richard but I feel that should be a good reason for the cyclist to have more empathy with the vulnerability of other tow path users now THEY are the tipper trucks and white vans. Self preservation is a great motivator and perhaps if CaRT were to make it known they would underwrite the legal costs of anyone injured by a cyclist that may give them pause to consider that if it did occur it could have very serious consequences for them.

[Bee]

Am about to walk the dog along what was an old railway track. Its v. muddy. There are sometimes people riding horses, always people walking dogs and nearly always cyclists. None of us have to be there, we choose to be but the only ones who belt along scattering the rest of us in their muddy wake are the blasted cyclists. The problem started when cycling became a 'sport' and hence competitive. It should be a law that bikes should weigh at least 2 cwt. and only have a Sturmey Archer 3 speed gear. That'd slow the b****** down.

[bassplayer]

Education is better than insurance. Insurance can reduce peoples sense of reponsibility.

 

Back in the old days cycling on the pavement was frowned upon. I see the tow path as a walkway not a road so I don't think banning cycling on a tow path is too unreasonable.

 

I gave up cycling on the tow path years ago anyway because I got fed up with the natural deterrent....hawthorns...

[kris88]

I'm glad to see there has been some discussion about the issue. I genuinely feel it's an important issue that CRT are trying to ignore. Because of the difficulties in dealing with it, some of which have been highlighted here.

I'm a boater, cyclist and a pedestrian so can see a few different sides of the issue. After thinking about it I feel the best course of action, (maybe I should point out here generally I'm in favour of towpath improvement. I prefere the compacted stone surfaces to Tarmac.)would be speed calming measures around hotspots. I do think some physical human presence to remind people of other users would be beneficial, again at hotspots. But the best course of action I feel would be for boaters who cycle, to cycle slowly.

If the majority of the bicycle traffic on the towpath was slow, then it would be difficult for cyclist who want to ride fast. Eventually they would go else where to ride at speed. The canal would have a chance of becoming the super slow way CRT keep advertising it as.

 

Regards kris

[Locksprite]

I still maintain that, on the whole, Oz is far more free of the sort of anti-social behavior that we have in this country.

I haven't been to Australia but a friend married an Aussie, has lived out there and is a regular visitor. He said that outside of a few coastal cities the continent is mainly redneck. Whether this is hyperbole or fact I don't know. My impression is the cities are possibly more "civilised", and the interior less so on average than the UK, although he mentioned a biker gang shoot out in the middle of Sydney.

 

The biggest change in recent years according to him, is the transformation of city Aussies from barbie eating, sun bathing, weed smoking people, to tofu eating, sunscreen obsessed health nuts.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I am not making such a suggestion. It is for CRT to decide how best to conform to the guidelines.

 

The DDA et al, use the word "reasonable" with respect to provision. Again it is for CRT to decide what is reasonable (and later face a court if that assessment is challenged)

 

What is considered reasonable in respect of cyclists could be totally different to what is considered reasonable for disabled access, having regard to numbers (or potential numbers) of users, the potential for harm to other legitimate users of the facility etc. There is no direct corelation between the two.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

 

No I am not happy. I have simply stated what I would do if me or mine were injured by a speeding cyclist on a substandard towpath.

 

If CRT wish to solve the problem they can ban cyclists from substandard towpaths and simultaneously claim that bringing all towpaths up to standard for DDA would be an unreasonable requirement. What they are foolishly doing is burying their heads in the sand and pretending there is no problem.

 

Perish the thought, but it will take a really serious injury or death to bring this to a head.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

I would disagree and say that you ARE making the suggestion that CRT should ban cyclists from the towpath since you have already said, regarding the DfT code of practice, "...Very few towpaths can meet this requirement...". I also find it a shame that you seem to support the banning of wheelchairs from the towpath because it would be an 'unreasonable requirement' to upgrade (which you don't want anyway!). You also need to consider that cycling on the towpath isn't a new phenomenon, back in the latter days of the working boats 'lock-wheeling' was a common practice to speed the boats through the locks, and they didn't hang about either!

 

As a final observation, when you say that you will sue, can you afford to lose the case? I don't suppose for one minute that CRT would roll over and say,'fair enough guv, you've got us bang to rights' they will probably (using mine and yours licence fee and taxation) take on a very expensive solicitors (probably Shoesmiths) and you need to be sure that you will win your case because if you don't you'll be paying for their solicitors as well. Can you risk bankruptcy to 'prove a point'?

[Tigerr]

Cyclists are not a 'group' any more than boaters are. There are some unpleasant self centred bigots in both groups. Just as there are among pedestrians and anglers on the towpath. The general thing is that people tend to think that whatever they happen to be doing on the towpath, is more legitimate than what other people may be doing. Given the slightest opportunity to demonise another group, people welcome it and thus people on cycles are transformed into speeding life threatening menaces.

A bit like the speeding boaters who always spill the kettle just as it boiled.

I suspect that statistically one is most at risk on the towpath from pedestrians who are quite often drunk, high, and inclined to violence and assault or criminal activity. Or, to judge from some of the violent fantasies of posters here, from psychotic boaters nursing vengeance paranoia.

The towpath is a valuable public shared space and people just need to rub along and accept that others probably won't conform to their own ideas of precedence.

 

[alan_fincher]

^^^^^^^^

 

This!

[MtB]

If CRT were to design a sign like this, and start putting them up all over the place, the message that pedestrians have priority over cyclists on the towpath might begin to filter into the consciousness of both pedestrians and speeding cyclists...

 

(Edit to add the photo!!)

Edited December 30, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[system 4-50]

For me as a pedestrian the worst thing about speeding cyclists is that they are silent until almost upon you. I would ask that cyclists that regularly use towpaths have clackers fitted like we did on children's bikes - but not so loud as to disturb the peace. [2 dings is often 2 late.]

[monkeyhanger]

If CRT were to design a sign like this, and start putting them up all over the place, the message that pedestrians have priority over cyclists on the towpath might begin to filter into the consciousness of both pedestrians and speeding cyclists...

 

(Edit to add the photo!!)

On the Regents Canal there are signs at every towpath access point similar to the one shown, stating that "pedestrians have priority, considerate cycling welcomed", or words to that effect. Of course, a great number of cyclists ARE considerate......but not all, which is the problem.

Edited December 31, 2015 by monkeyhanger

[ditchcrawler]

These notices have just appared on the Staffs and Worcs north of Wolverhampton.

Edited January 1, 2016 by ditchcrawler

[David Mack]

These notices have just appared on the Staffs and Worcs north of Wolverhampton.

 

Its not clear though if the ropes were right across the towpath, or if someone is objecting to ropes tied to pins a little way back from the waters edge.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Its not clear though if the ropes were right across the towpath, or if someone is objecting to ropes tied to pins a little way back from the waters edge.

 

The picture shows a rope tied right across the towpath from boat to tree.

 

The standard of English is appalling - I wonder who wrote the "Wanted" poster ?

Just one example - ...... "obstructing the towpath from the boat" - to me the boat appears to have unobstructed access to the towpath.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Delta9]

These notices have just appared on the Staffs and Worcs north of Wolverhampton.

The accident was in August 2013 but they are only now looking for witnesses?

[ditchcrawler]

The accident was in August 2013 but they are only now looking for witnesses?

Struck me as strange, and the posters have only just gone up as we passed this way last week

[metanoia]

If CRT were to design a sign like this, and start putting them up all over the place, the message that pedestrians have priority over cyclists on the towpath might begin to filter into the consciousness of both pedestrians and speeding cyclists...

 

(Edit to add the photo!!)

Too true...

 

Tried to explain to an old chap walking his dog many years ago just past Greensforge on the S&W when the poor man leapt, terrified, into the hedge as a lycra lout approached that HE had priority over the speeding cyclist..... he was incredulous when I said he had more right than the bike.

 

New signs?

 

THIS IS A "TOWING" PATH

 

 

BOATERS SHOULD???? TAKE PRIORITY

 

(think about it) never mind the grand a year licence ......

 

THEN their horses (prohibited now for some reason - perhaps because they might cause a problem for the bikes?

 

pedestrians and dogs what don't leave deposits on the edge where we want to tie up (why is it WE always get the blame for that too? - would you leave your dog muck where you want to tie up?

 

THEN... all the rest?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Too true...

 

Tried to explain to an old chap walking his dog many years ago just past Greensforge on the S&W when the poor man leapt, terrified, into the hedge as a lycra lout approached that HE had priority over the speeding cyclist..... he was incredulous when I said he had more right than the bike.

 

New signs?

 

THIS IS A "TOWING" PATH

 

 

BOATERS SHOULD???? TAKE PRIORITY

 

(think about it) never mind the grand a year licence ......

 

THEN their horses (prohibited now for some reason - perhaps because they might cause a problem for the bikes?

 

pedestrians and dogs what don't leave deposits on the edge where we want to tie up (why is it WE always get the blame for that too? - would you leave your dog muck where you want to tie up?

 

THEN... all the rest?

Having thought about it, I can't say that I see very many boaters using the path for towing. When you look at it the principal users of the path are actually walkers (including dog walkers) because let's face it, except for the short section between where we moor up and the nearest bridge to get to the shops (or the bits between a close series of locks) we as boaters don't actually need a linear towpath. As evidence of this I travelled both the Weaver and the Trent this year, neither of which have a recognisable towpath and it made little difference to me. All we as boaters need is somewhere to moor.

 

I'm not entirely sure that horses are prohibited from the towpath, especially as my most unnerving towpath moment involved a horse and not a cycle. The rider in question had come onto the towpath at Black Delph Bridge at the bottom of the Delph Flight as I was walking back down the towpath from Lock 7. Without any real warning he then began to gallop the horse along the towpath towards me, if you think a lycra clad nut is frightening trust me it bears no comparison to a ton of horsemeat coming towards you at the gallop . After running to get out of his way I was so stunned by his actions I didn't even have the presence of mind to shout abuse at him .

[metanoia]

Having thought about it, I can't say that I see very many boaters using the path for towing. When you look at it the principal users of the path are actually walkers (including dog walkers) because let's face it, except for the short section between where we moor up and the nearest bridge to get to the shops (or the bits between a close series of locks) we as boaters don't actually need a linear towpath. As evidence of this I travelled both the Weaver and the Trent this year, neither of which have a recognisable towpath and it made little difference to me. All we as boaters need is somewhere to moor.

 

I'm not entirely sure that horses are prohibited from the towpath, especially as my most unnerving towpath moment involved a horse and not a cycle. The rider in question had come onto the towpath at Black Delph Bridge at the bottom of the Delph Flight as I was walking back down the towpath from Lock 7. Without any real warning he then began to gallop the horse along the towpath towards me, if you think a lycra clad nut is frightening trust me it bears no comparison to a ton of horsemeat coming towards you at the gallop:( . After running to get out of his way I was so stunned by his actions I didn't even have the presence of mind to shout abuse at him:angry2: .

Hope you're not having nightmares.....

 

I'm still towing my boat along......and met another chap a couple of weeks ago literally doing that with a rope around his chest - from Chirk to Manchester - so it IS for towing, even though BW banned horses........

 

Came across a herd of cows one night in the twilight as I was walking the dog - did an about turn -mainly because I didn't think my collection of poo bags would cope.....

 

And another time, a flock of sheep - one of whom had fallen in - do you KNOW quite how heavy they are to pull out of the canal?

 

But, to be fair, have only seen horses with people aboard taking shortcuts to the next bridleway?

[Jerra]

 

A strict immigration policy (maybe) ?

No home grown inconsiderate people? Are all inconsiderate people in the UK immigrants?

[David Mack]

The picture shows a rope tied right across the towpath from boat to tree.

You must have sharper eyesight than me! Might be clearer on the poster, but isn't on the image posted here.

[Graham Davis]

It isn't very obvious, but it passes diagonally across, just below the man's feet, to the tree above the bike.

[ditchcrawler]

You must have sharper eyesight than me! Might be clearer on the poster, but isn't on the image posted here.