Boat collection and delivery

[Athy]

oh! sorry about that, have a D instead of the T!

 

Gosh, that's less painful, thank you.

[dor]

I'm currently busy refitting our bathroom because I can, hands-on work is a pleasant contrast to spreadsheets and documents, relaxes me and I'm buggered if I'm paying anyone to do stuff I can do myself. Next week I'll be helping my daughter with some fettling at her new house. I've just been to B&Q where I bumped into a number of folk who clearly feel the same but I don't see it being picketed by builders and plumbers. Your response was unwarranted, Nipper.

 

But you don't find anyone walking up to you andsaying "It's looks like you are refitting a kitchen, I could do that for you for free". I've just finished making a bespoke chest of drawers for my son, but I'm not going to do another one for you for nothing.

[nipper]

 

But you don't find anyone walking up to you andsaying "It's looks like you are refitting a kitchen, I could do that for you for free". I've just finished making a bespoke chest of drawers for my son, but I'm not going to do another one for you for nothing.

dor, have a Greeny

[Martin Megson]

Getting back to the topic I wouldn't hand over my boat to anyone without a signed contract and confirmation of insurance.

[Hawthorn]

My husband and I would like to offer our services of moving your boats. We have a share in a narrow boat and have done several collections and we don't charge. All we ask is that fuel is provided and we can use the time it takes to get your boat from A to B to have a short break aboard. We are based in the Midlands but some travel to collect the boat should be fine.

Every time someone does someone a favour, they are 'undercutting' someone who might offer the same service, but charge. Carers, grand parents providing childcare, giving a friend lift back from the station ....... the list could be endless. It's the way the world ought to work, exchange and barter, generosity or reciprocal arrangements. If the OP is re-read, you will see that they make it clear they WILL be getting rewarded, it sounds like they are not going to rush, but enjoy a 'short break'.

 

A friend of mine moves boats, the most recent from Croatia to Majorca. He doesn't get paid, only expenses, but boy has he had some great trips that he could not otherwise afford.

[system 4-50]

I'm also with Nipper on this one.

He may not have presented his case with the polish of a Lawyer but he is fundamentally right.

[Peter X]

A greenie to twbm for saying what I was thinking; that just because there are people who make a living doing something, that doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to do it for free. If there are enough people around who enjoy doing something to meet demand, it tends to cease being an occupation and rightly so. There are for example people who have sex for a living, but many more who do it unpaid! In the occupation in question of boat moving, the professionals are there and fulfil a need (sorry about the comparison there!), but I see nothing wrong with what the OP is/are proposing, so long as they check that either their insurance or the boat owner's covers the risks of damage, personal injury etc. I doubt there even needs to be a written agreement, but if there is one that doesn't automatically make it "commercial" as Paul G2 thinks. For example tax only kicks in when money changes hands, or payment in kind beyond just the use of the boat plus expenses incurred like fuel. HMRC are only interested where there is profit.

 

As I said, as newcomers to the forum Tammy and mo may find few takers at first, but I see no harm in them asking. People's situations vary; some just need someone like me to go along to do locks and maybe help with tea making and cookery too, some want the luxury of a professional boat mover who's going to do everything, and others will need something in between and be happy to accept that a free service will come with some limitations.

[paulmeds]

Tammy and mo: You sound like you're genuine but I think you'll face an issue of trust at first, rather like someone starting out on eBay.

 

Since I began crewing for people other than my brother six months ago, I've crewed for four people, none of whom I'd met before I appeared at the boat, but I had two big advantages in getting invited aboard; I'd already been around on the forum for a while, and these people were going to be on the boat themselves (with the exception of paulmeds when he fell in at Kidlington)

 

Thanks for the reminder Peter, it's brought the taste back and put me off my dinner

[ditchcrawler]

Every time someone does someone a favour, they are 'undercutting' someone who might offer the same service, but charge. Carers, grand parents providing childcare, giving a friend lift back from the station ....... the list could be endless. It's the way the world ought to work, exchange and barter, generosity or reciprocal arrangements. If the OP is re-read, you will see that they make it clear they WILL be getting rewarded, it sounds like they are not going to rush, but enjoy a 'short break'.

 

A friend of mine moves boats, the most recent from Croatia to Majorca. He doesn't get paid, only expenses, but boy has he had some great trips that he could not otherwise afford.

What about all the advice given out on here, that must have cost mechanics and electricians a fortune over the years

[bigcol]

Why not have a business section,?where traders can pay to advertise there business and rates phone number contact or website details Especially for forum members. Boat movers,plumbers, electrics

This would help the traders business, and above anything else help forum members to find a good source of realiable people.

Word of mouth is the best advertising, especially members of the forum,

and this forum really really benefits all boaters new old and decrepid.

 

We have a sales and wanted section, why not have a business section, not just a advert but what they do pricing etc. this could also help the running of the forum, maybe get some burgees made up with the proceeds,or site maintenance.

 

Or had this been done

Going to have another look just in case I made a prat of myself again

Edited November 21, 2015 by bigcol

[Hawthorn]

What about all the advice given out on here, that must have cost mechanics and electricians a fortune over the years

Excellent point!

[Laurie Booth]

You do not appear to have finished your sentence, Let me suggest an ending:

 

...is perfectly acceptable because they are not doing it for commercial gain and thereby do not fall under this forum rule.

The commercial gain is a free holiday. Worth at least £1k.

[zenataomm]

 

 

Bit OTT i think . It is like saying nobody can do a cheaper job and offer cheaper service than a commercial company. I have done cash in hand jobs many a time over the years on cars, loads of welding as garages charge so much i will do it cheaper and a good job to go with it.

It happens all over the place, some folk cant afford to pay full wack prices and some dont want to so look elsewhere.

 

Just think a rant over it was not needed, unless you are taking it personally, then understandable but still ....

 

I suggest you don't really want to be saying the above in public.

Cash in hand suggests undeclared earnings.

Not wise, if the authorities decide to focus on you they won't stop at just that.

[MtB]

Yes there are plenty of 'cash-in-hand' cowboy plumbers out there undercutting me too.

 

BUT,

 

There are enough people who see better value in what I do despite me being five times the price of the cheapest in the market. The art is in communicating that 'value for money' to the potential customer.

 

Maybe Nipper's business failed because he failed to achieve this. I also think the professional boat movers on here will have no problems with Tammy and Mo nicking their paid work. What's more likely to happen is Tammy and Mo will create extra 'boat moves' from boat owners who will not pay to have a boat moved, but would accept the extra risks involved in having their moved for free.

[patty-ann]

I would rather go with recommendations by word of mouth particularly where my boat is concerned...if I wanted mine moved I would probably use someone who had references and insurance but i do see that for the OP its a way of getting a break whilst helping out others.

Each to their own really.

Some people cannot afford boat movers so that has to be their choice to trust who they ask.

Where work is concerned..plumbers etc I would rather pay more and avoid cowboys and employ word of mouth again..Ive had a couple of real iffy moments here at house with renovation. Most of them have been lovely.

[bigcol]

Mates rates, whenever I hear that I cringe!!

Mt8s rates means, it will be cheaper to go to somone I don't know, a trader, or just get a few quotes from advertisers

M8ts rates means because their mates you end up gives good them allowances anyway. Either with Money time and quality.

 

Sometimes do it your self, give it ago, I've had plenty of sound good help from the forum.

 

Col

[Athy]

 

 

I also think the professional boat movers on here will have no problems with Tammy and Mo nicking their paid work. What's more likely to happen is Tammy and Mo will create extra 'boat moves' from boat owners who will not pay to have a boat moved, but would accept the extra risks involved in having their moved for free.

Good point. The retired couple whose boat is currently parked at the end of our garden did precisely that (though they do know the man who moved the boat).

[Mike Todd]

Excellent point!

. . . and in some cases generated it??

[blackrose]

Except they're not friends. So its not the same.

An insurance company doesn't ask or check on the length or level of friendship with the people that the policyholder entrusts to use a boat. What criteria could they possibly use for that?

 

Depending on the terms of the particular insurance policy they're only interested in whether the owners' permission was given. So it is the same.

Edited November 22, 2015 by blackrose

[Paul C]

An insurance company doesn't ask or check for one's level of friendship with people one entrusts to use a boat. They're only interested in whether the owners permission was given. So it is the same.

 

Of course; it would depend on the exact wording of the policy, and these vary. I looked at mine:

 

PERSONS COVERED

 

1. The Insured Persons referred to in this Section are:-

(i) you;

(ii) any person using the Vessel with your permission.

 

 

 

PERSONS NOT COVERED

 

This Policy does not cover the liability of the following persons:-

(i) any person employed under a contract in connection with the Vessel,

other than captain or crew and employed by you;

(ii) an employee of or an operator of a marina, slipway, shipyard, yacht

club, sales agency, similar organisation or crane or travel hoist;

The wording of the various sections of the policy make it clear that the "PERSONS NOT COVERED" are in the exclusions section, in other words the second bit would take percedence over the first bit in my quotes. So strictly, its not whether they're a friend or not; but whether there's a contract or not. If a boat mover didn't have their own insurance I'd need to, effectively, 'just let them use the boat' and not be able to have any kind of official or unofficial contract defining any agreement etc between us.

[Peter X]

The commercial gain is a free holiday. Worth at least £1k.

It's very much a gain for Tammy and mo, to get the chance to do something they enjoy, just as it is for me when I crew for someone. But I don't see it as a commercial gain, and neither would HMRC as far as I know. If there isn't taxable income for a company or person, it isn't commercial.

However there is, I will admit, a bit of a grey area around bartering especially of goods, which I suppose would be taxable at least in theory, although in practice I suspect HMRC don't bother much because it's too difficult to enforce.

[Peter X]

Paul C: My interpretation of your policy wording is that the exclusion can only apply where someone is employed, but that if you personally were to employ Tammy and mo to move your boat, your insurance would cover them. However, by law you'd then have to pay the minimum wage, so they would definitely be doing it for commercial gain so you'd be rewarding someone for breaking your forum's rules...

 

On the other hand, is it possible to make a written contract with someone to move a boat (unpaid) without it becoming a contract of employment?

I'm not sure.

[Paul C]

Paul C: My interpretation of your policy wording is that the exclusion can only apply where someone is employed, but that if you personally were to employ Tammy and mo to move your boat, your insurance would cover them. However, by law you'd then have to pay the minimum wage, so they would definitely be doing it for commercial gain so you'd be rewarding someone for breaking your forum's rules...

 

On the other hand, is it possible to make a written contract with someone to move a boat (unpaid) without it becoming a contract of employment?

I'm not sure.

 

I think its a generalised clause. If I own a £100 million yacht and "employ" some full time staff, including a captain, a chef, some other crew etc they're both "crew" and "employed". So, they're covered.

 

If I ask a boat mover to move my boat (and in doing so, a contract exists even if its a very simple verbal one and not written, signed etc), but don't normally employ them except for the boat moving, they're "employed under a contract in connection with the Vessel". Because they're not part of the normal crew, my insurance won't cover them.

[nigel carton]

Oh dear I've just re advertised my boat delivery services, still with 40000 boats on the system I'm sure they'll be plenty of work to go around. ?

Damn have I just advertised myself?.....I'll get on the norty step!

[MtB]

Oh dear I've just re advertised my boat delivery services, still with 40000 boats on the system I'm sure they'll be plenty of work to go around.

Damn have I just advertised myself?.....I'll get on the norty step!

 

 

No Nige, that's not an advert for your most professional boat moving service, where you'll move a boat from anywhere to anwhere else, and cope with all hiccoughs on the way, both minor and major.

 

Your comment counts as a meta-advert, i.e. a discussion about your advert, rather than being an advert in and of itself.