Don't trust the Trust anymore.

[Naughty Cal]

At the end of the day you are a customer and you are paying dearly for what you get out of having a boat on the system. It is just plain wrong to be fearful of the authorities and intimidated by their bullying employees. Get in touch with the higher ups and if that does not get some sort of satisfaction then remember that the local press are always looking for stuff to fill their papers, be sure of your facts and dates though.

And at the same time you have agreed to follow a fairly simple set of guidelines.

 

If you don't follow them then you can expect to come under scrutiny. If you do follow them then you will be left alone to enjoy your boating.

 

It isn't rocket science.

[kris88]

Even if you are a "naughty" customer, you still have a right to be treated with respect. Especially if you are Ill the last thing you need is a jobs worth EO adding to your stress.

My advice would be to contact his manager and express your concerns about the treatment you have received.

It always amazes me that the experts about the enforcement regime, are the ones who have never encounted it in operation.

 

Regards kris

Edited September 15, 2015 by kris88

[tidal]

And at the same time you have agreed to follow a fairly simple set of guidelines.

 

If you don't follow them then you can expect to come under scrutiny. If you do follow them then you will be left alone to enjoy your boating.

 

It isn't rocket science.

 

And that applies to all users, not just CCers.

Especially now when similar guidelines are being applied (legally or otherwise) to all

[John V]

And at the same time you have agreed to follow a fairly simple set of guidelines.

 

If you don't follow them then you can expect to come under scrutiny. If you do follow them then you will be left alone to enjoy your boating.

 

It isn't rocket science.

 

I would agree.......this is the way it should be.

 

Sometimes humans are a little more complex (on both sides).................... but as long as a sensible recourse is available to more senior management and a certain amount of flexibility allowed (again on both sides) .....Yes it isn't rocket science

[Chewbacka]

Assuming your original comment of having been on a long cruise for 26 days took you out of his area, then you can point out to his managers that if you had stayed in his area then he would have undoubtedly recorded seeing you as he is such a through and diligent chap, therefore you must have moved on for those days. Then you can tell them where you went and say that in future you will keep better records.

I would suggest that at this stage a bit of 'please help me to sort out this misunderstanding' is more likely to get you a positive reaction from his boss.

 

When I am out cruising I like to keep a log for each day - that's just how I am - I write it all in my little book. The start and stop times must be accurate to the nearest 5 mins, which my wife tells me is a bit OCD, but I am getting better.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Chewbacka

[twbm]

Indeed. As with all 'customers', you comply with the terms and conditions or the supplier can cease to supply you. Paying your licence fee doesn't qualify you for royalty treatment, but common courtesy and manners should be the default for all engagements even if your'e in dispute.

 

You do, however seem to have come across a grade 1 jobsworth a-hole and should use the complaints process. Be sure your letter sticks to the facts, report his words accurately and resist the temptation to be rude about him at a personal level despite what you may think.

 

Edited too add - Chewbaccas point about the 26 day gap is exactly the sort of point to make, pointing out that in fact if the EO's records are to be treated as credible, they are of themselves evidence of your absence.

Edited September 15, 2015 by twbm

[tidal]

When I am out cruising I like to keep a log for each day - that's just how I am - I write it all in my little book. The start and stop times must be accurate to the nearest 5 mins, which my wife tells me is a bit OCD, but I am getting better.

 

*Looks embarrassed*

Thanks to years of salty water boating I still keep up hourly log recording on any boat bigger than a dinghy

Tell your wife she is lucky to have you

[Alan de Enfield]

 

*Looks embarrassed*

Thanks to years of salty water boating I still keep up hourly log recording on any boat bigger than a dinghy

Tell your wife she is lucky to have you

 

Me to - but - I have weaned myself down to just :

 

Engine start time / engine hours / location

Engine stop time / engine hours / location

"Notes of interest"

 

I find the 'log' useful for such notes as 'oil change' which when viewed alongside the engine hours gives a reminder of when the next change is due - this was particularly useful on our last NB when the oil change was due around every 3-4 weeks (100 hours)

[bottle]

Even if you are a "naughty" customer, you still have a right to be treated with respect. Especially if you are Ill the last thing you need is a jobs worth EO adding to your stress.

My advice would be to contact his manager and express your concerns about the treatment you have received.

It always amazes me that the experts about the enforcement regime, are the ones who have never encounted it in operation.

 

Regards kris

 

Would they be the ones that have read the 'rules' and comply and so therefore do not have problems with the 'regime'.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There will always be those that take enforcement to the extreme.

 

Simple answer get all the facts together and complain to a higher authority.

[RLWP]

Enforcement officers are number crunchers .They are not management.

 

Wrong

 

Richard

[Arthur Marshall]

Is there not supposedly a procedure to be followed before a reduced licence is decided on? It's unlikely that the decision to do this is the first contact the OP has had with enforcement, surely. If his sightings record for the previous ten years shows a proper cc pattern, I would have thought this would be a good argument in his favour. Of course, if it doesn't its best not mentioned.

[bassplayer]

Please don't be put off by anything you read on here. There are a number of people that post on here that seem to spend their whole life immersed in a pool of negativity regarding CRT and they become obsessed. That is not a true reflection of life on the cut. I think this is shown well in the CRT poll on this forum where when i last read it over 80% of those who had voted were in favour of keeping CRT.

 

Thousands of people manage to CC without ever having any contact with CRT except for renewing their licence annually.

I wonder how many who voted supporting CRT are CC'ers or/and live aboards? I wonder how many cruise regularly outside of thier marina....or even have a boat?

 

It's only when you use a boat in CRT waters that you are likely to come across CRT nonsense.

 

Indeed, as someone else mentioned, CRT's plan is working.

Edited September 15, 2015 by bassplayer

[Bee]

I think the idea of keeping a log to use in self defence should it be necessary just shows how nervous and compliant people have become. It is not for us as customers to disprove daft allegations of infringments - that's their job. I am not a number - or a sheep. How do you type the anarchist symbol on this keyboard?

[Naughty Cal]

I wonder how many who voted supporting CRT are CC'ers or/and live aboards? I wonder how many cruise regularly outside of thier marina....or even have a boat?

 

It's only when you use a boat in CRT waters that you are likely to come across CRT nonsense.

 

Indeed, as someone else mentioned, CRT's plan is working.

We have a boat, use our boat on CRT waters (amongst others), come out of the marina pretty much every week unless the flood gates are on and have yet to come across any "CRT nonsense"

 

If you stick to the very few very simple guidelines you will not attract any attention from CRT and will be free to enjoy your boating.

 

The people who are finding themselves in the spot light are those who have been testing the limits of what CRT will consider reasonable, those who have been pushing the limits.

 

If you have a genuine reason that you can't move on, be that for CCers or those with a home mooring, communicating with CRT at the earliest possible chance is the best course of action rather then waiting for the enforcement officer/letter to come to you.

I think the idea of keeping a log to use in self defence should it be necessary just shows how nervous and compliant people have become. It is not for us as customers to disprove daft allegations of infringments - that's their job. I am not a number - or a sheep. How do you type the anarchist symbol on this keyboard?

Some people enjoy keeping a log rather then seeing it as self defense.

[kris88]

We have a boat, use our boat on CRT waters (amongst others), come out of the marina pretty much every week unless the flood gates are on and have yet to come across any "CRT nonsense"

 

If you stick to the very few very simple guidelines you will not attract any attention from CRT and will be free to enjoy your boating.

 

The people who are finding themselves in the spot light are those who have been testing the limits of what CRT will consider reasonable, those who have been pushing the limits.

 

If you have a genuine reason that you can't move on, be that for CCers or those with a home mooring, communicating with CRT at the earliest possible chance is the best course of action rather then waiting for the enforcement officer/letter to come to you.

 

Some people enjoy keeping a log rather then seeing it as self defense.

Do you live aboard? Or do you CC ?

 

Regards kris

[mango]

Can we assume that the post by the OP is factually correct? Obviously those who want to have a go at CRT assume that it is.

[bottle]

My other half has kept a diary (log) all her life and since being on the boat, we have blogged (now stopped) it has not been a log for any other reason than it is nice to remember where and what we have done.

 

It may be handy if there is a jobs worth about but have yet to meet one.

 

Whether you wish to keep one is entirely down to your own decision.

ps. we are CCers, in case you need to know Kris

[MtB]

Please don't be put off by anything you read on here. There are a number of people that post on here that seem to spend their whole life immersed in a pool of negativity regarding CRT and they become obsessed. That is not a true reflection of life on the cut. I think this is shown well in the CRT poll on this forum where when i last read it over 80% of those who had voted were in favour of keeping CRT.

 

Thousands of people manage to CC without ever having any contact with CRT except for renewing their licence annually.

 

This is very good advice.

 

The problems seem to start when people start probing for ways to minimise their cruising range for whatever reason, as the OP says he is doing for health reasons.

 

The OP thinks he should be given a minimum distance to cruise so he can maintain compliance, CRT can't give him one. And so the collision course has been set.

[bassplayer]

Can we assume that the post by the OP is factually correct? Obviously those who want to have a go at CRT assume that it is.

You could say that about anyone posting on here.

 

We had a lockie overusing his authority with us recently near Uxbridge. It happens!

[DeanS]

The new enforcement regime is not only aimed at CC-ers. I left my marina for a while recently, for a few months and received a letter...and after asking for my logs, they revealed they had missed a few of my travels and clocked me at the same place 3 weeks apart (facing opposite directions).

 

This is just the new "way" of the canals. It's very sad, but the only way forward is to keep your own logs, deal with CRT via email only, and try not let it get to you. That's what I'm going to try and do. Dealing face to face with enforcement bods on a permanent basis would seriously get to me and force me off the canals...so if ever one approaches, I'll ask them to never knock on my boat again, and only send me written correspondence. That way I can try and retain the old feeling of canal life I came to love when I started boating.....the feeling of freedom

[rupertbear]

Putting to one side all considerations of CRT employee and/or boater behaviour, the one factor which continually astounds me in these tales is the idea that the boater should have to prove their boat's movements have been within the rules. This is completely against all usual concepts of natural justice.

 

Imagine the scenario:

 

Car Park Security Officer: "I'm issuing you with a penalty notice and £100 fine for leaving your car here for 24 hours when the maximum stay is 4 hours."

 

You: "It hasn't been here for 24 hours."

 

Car Park Security Officer: "I saw it here at this time yesterday and it's still here now."

 

You: "But I drove home yesterday and came back today!"

 

Car Park Security Officer: "Prove it or you get the fine."

 

I know that "natural justice" is a very woolly concept but it is still very important as the foundation of much of our legislation. Is there a member of the legal profession here who might want to comment on this?

[Arthur Marshall]

The OP thinks he should be given a minimum distance to cruise so he can maintain compliance, CRT can't give him one. And so the collision course has been set.

In this case, it seems he was asking because he was ill and unable to follow his previous pattern. If this is the case, it seems fair enough to ask CRT fo advice about how to maintain compliance while temporarily disabled. It may have been better to ask the managers rather than the EO, who probably would neither know nor want to risk being quoted out of context by either the OP or oher boaters who he may have talked to.

[Graham Davis]

I wonder why the OP hasn't been back since he opened this thread?

 

Did he notify CaRT of his medical problem as soon as he could?

Did he ask CaRT at that time if he could overstay?

Did he only notify them after they had started their "procedure"?

Did he fail an "attitude test" by being stroppy when first approached?

[bassplayer]

 

The OP thinks he should be given a minimum distance to cruise so he can maintain compliance, CRT can't give him one. And so the collision course has been set.

It takes two to be on a collision course. In case you didn't notice, he is trying to comply but has been incorrectly assesed as not moving enough due to a logging system which is unfit for purpose.

 

Or do you think it is fit for purpose? I mean, if it's purpose is to P boaters off so we don't use CRT waters.

[Arthur Marshall]

The new enforcement regime is not only aimed at CC-ers. I left my marina for a while recently, for a few months and received a letter...and after asking for my logs, they revealed they had missed a few of my travels and clocked me at the same place 3 weeks apart (facing opposite directions).

 

This is just the new "way" of the canals. It's very sad, but the only way forward is to keep your own logs, deal with CRT via email only, and try not let it get to you. That's what I'm going to try and do. Dealing face to face with enforcement bods on a permanent basis would seriously get to me and force me off the canals...so if ever one approaches, I'll ask them to never knock on my boat again, and only send me written correspondence. That way I can try and retain the old feeling of canal life I came to love when I started boating.....the feeling of freedom

Boating's changed. I haven't talked to anyone over the past five years who has been doing it for more than twenty who doesn't think that the attitude on the canal has changed, from that of BW/CRT to that of a lot of other new boaters. It's just something we have to come to terms with, which is hard for those of us who started when it as a lot freer (and cheaper, for that matter). Compliance is part of it, sadly. Like everything else, it was so much better in the old days...