Volunteer spreading the love - Gifford Park Mooring - merged topics

[RLWP]

obnoxious selfish boaters are the ones that always seem to pointing at others that they say behave badly , had it last year from a pr**k who was moored on the anderton lift waiting area way before his time to go up , preventing those going up before him from getting into the waiting area.

 

Where's that pot/kettle image gone?

 

Richard

[gaggle]

Try looking up your harris.

[RLWP]

You don't see a parallel between

 

the ones that always seem to pointing at others that they say behave badly

 

and

 

had it last year from a pr**k etc.

 

Richard

 

Or 'obnoxious' and 'Try looking up your harris' for that matter

Edited July 27, 2015 by RLWP

[gaggle]

Whatever love .

[cotswoldsman]

Not feeling at all guilty. You were implying that one shouldn't discriminate between CCers / liveaboards and leisure boaters, and I am pointing out that since there are fundamental differences, discrimination is appropriate. In the same way that the law discriminates between boaters with a home mooring and those without. "Discriminate" in its true sense, not its trendy PC sense.

It always amazes me how you find it so easy to discriminate against a group of people that chose to live a different lifestyle than the majority.

[nicknorman]

It always amazes me how you find it so easy to discriminate against a group of people that chose to live a different lifestyle than the majority.

You are using the word "discriminate" as if it were an intrinsically bad thing, when in fact it is an inevitable feature of the fact that we are all different. Is it right or wrong to discriminate between men and women in that only men should enter the "gents" whilst only women should enter the "ladies" (sexism)? Is it right or wrong to discriminate between adults and children regarding, for example, the purchase of alcohol? (ageism). Is it right or wrong to discriminate between those having a home mooring and those not? Not an -ism but they are subject to different sections of the law. So to pretend that there is/should be no discrimination in this world is just wooly-thinking wooly-liberal woolyness. Oh sorry, I am discriminating between natural and man-made fibres there!

 

Anyway, to almost answer your point directly I find it easy to discriminate between a group of people that chose to live a different... etc. But note I have changed your "against" to my "between". Your "against" gives a negative connotation to "discriminate", whereas mine just accepts the facts that different groups have different behaviours and interactions with the the others.

Edited July 27, 2015 by nicknorman

[bigcol]

Ok I'll ask...

 

Are the boaters on the spot thinking the fire was deliberately started?

No don't think so Mike, the fire was reported very quickly, no one was on board, fire engines arrived really quick.

Next door neighbor didn't see anyone.

 

Just one of those weekends

 

Col

Edited July 27, 2015 by bigcol

[bassplayer]

You are using the word "discriminate" as if it were an intrinsically bad thing, when in fact it is an inevitable feature of the fact that we are all different. Is it right or wrong to discriminate between men and women in that only men should enter the "gents" whilst only women should enter the "ladies" (sexism)? Is it right or wrong to discriminate between adults and children regarding, for example, the purchase of alcohol? (ageism). Is it right or wrong to discriminate between those having a home mooring and those not? Not an -ism but they are subject to different sections of the law. So to pretend that there is/should be no discrimination in this world is just wooly-thinking wooly-liberal woolyness. Oh sorry, I am discriminating between natural and man-made fibres there!Anyway, to almost answer your point directly I find it easy to discriminate between a group of people that chose to live a different... etc. But note I have changed your "against" to my "between". Your "against" gives a negative connotation to "discriminate", whereas mine just accepts the facts that different groups have different behaviours and interactions with the the others.

 

Interestingly after a quick Google. One of the definitions of 'discriminate' is 'to make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.' The other definition is softer 'to recognise a distinction or differentiate' , I don't often see the word used in the latter context.

[nicknorman]

Interestingly after a quick Google. One of the definitions of 'discriminate' is 'to make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.' The other definition is softer 'to recognise a distinction or differentiate' , I don't often see the word used in the latter context.

True, the word has become a bit distorted by its common usage in a negative way, with resultant confusion! The latter of your two definitions is the original and "purer" one, the former is a modern invention. As I said, the key is whether it is followed by "between" or "against".

[Mike Tee]

No don't think so Mike, the fire was reported very quickly, no one was on board, fire engines arrived really quick.

Next door neighbor didn't see anyone.

 

Just one of those weekends

 

Col

That'll be the householder dancing round his pentacle - you've had the fire, look out for the pestilence and plague

 

eta - whenever he kicks off and moans at you, just imagine him dancing round his pentacle NAKED and it will either make you laugh or throw up - either will annoy him.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Mike Tee

[Bettie Boo]

The assumption here from some recent posts is that the householder's comment I have cut and pasted is an accurate statement of how things are.

 

I regularly boat past Giffard Park, and would not have thought this particular location is one that is one of the most "colonised" in the area. It if far from always full with residential boats, and I would say breasting up is rare, (if only because there are regularly wide beams there).

 

If the householder does his research, "smokeless fuel" regulation do not apply to canal boats anyway, but I would hazard a guess that most burning stoves there will be using a smokeless fuel anyway - very little house coal is now sold on the canals, I think.

 

CRT have tried to accommodate residents by the introduction of a voluntary "Quiet Zone" here, although I have not been there recently enough to know if the signs are yet in place.

 

It is not somewhere that should have 24 or 48 hour moorings thrust upon it, because these are not necessary to relieve congestion, and doing it as an oblique way of solving another perceived problem could open the floodgates for doing it all over the place.

 

Anybody who boats though Milton Keynes will realise there is nothing exceptional about Giffard Park - there are thousands of metres of towpath with housing built next to potential mooring sites - are we going to make it all short stay, to keep live-aboard boats away? Anyway a Wyvern or Alvechurch hire boat, complete with stag party, supermarket beer, and disposable barbecue can cause just as much annoyance as someone who lives on a boat permanently.

 

Agree with all of the above Alan and well said.

 

Since there are people from all different walks of life on the canals there are bound to be inconsiderate boaters in all of the groups whether they be share, hire's, live aboard or leisure. With our limited experience, we have found there are considerate and not so considerate in each group whilst out on the cut, thankfully the vast majority have been friendly and considerate.

 

Yes on occasion we've had both leisure and live aboard's running their engines near us well past the 8PM mark, but never so late that it has got to the point of us feeling the need to ask them to shut it off. We've moored near boat's that burn wood rather than smokless fuel (I Love the smell of wood smoke, so no issue for us at all), and yes some of them were share / leisure boats in the early spring (April / May) or last fall (Oct / Nov).

 

My point being, it's not "just" live aboards. And it is, we've found, the exception rather than standard practice that either of these infractions occur.

 

The way his comments are written (home owner) is implying that there were 80 days in 2013 that the location in question did not have a boat moored, and that for each day a boat was moored they either had their engine / genny running or they were burning a fuel which produced smoke! That seems a "little" over the top to me.

 

The other thing we've encountered is there are numerous folks who consider themselves leisure boater's who actually live on their boats from spring to fall and then go back to their bricks & mortar for the cold winter months. They don't tend to race around the system trying to cover as many miles as possible, but rather moor like we as full time live aboards do, & moor up for anywhere from 3 - 14 days in any given spot and have a good explore around the area. So it wouldn't "just" be us full time live aboards the 24 & 48 hr mooring restrictions effect, but them as well. And yes, the majority of those types of boaters we've encountered do have mulit fuel stoves and run their engines to top up their battery banks.

 

BTW - nice find with the consultation link/quote

[MtB]

No don't think so Mike, the fire was reported very quickly, no one was on board, fire engines arrived really quick.

Next door neighbor didn't see anyone.

 

Just one of those weekends

 

Col

 

 

Good. I was very concerned in case the boaters felt it was arson, and the householder was prime suspect. This would have been an escalation into very serious territory, whatever the real truth of the matter. Escalation of the dispute is the last thing we need.

[bigcol]

Just had CRT ring me up, Hannah Roe, who ask me for the pictures of the dug out towpath, As far as she knows no works are known to be here, there regards to the dug out moorings.

I have sent photos as requested

What Hannah Roe CRT did confirm, there will be signage erected, making it a quite Zone, asking boaters to be aware there are houses near.

As far as she knows there should be no damage to grass mooring area.

 

Is it really the case that CRT know nothing, is it the case that everyone takes it as gospel that this is the CRT situation??? And never been reported to anyone??

 

Also had neighbor Michael knock at my boat, who is also reading this post on forum, who said he did hear footsteps running just before he reported the fire. Why would a boat been there unattended for a day or so, catch fire on its own?

Proberly a electric fault.

Edited July 27, 2015 by bigcol

[nicknorman]

Also had neighbor knock at my boat, who is also reading this post on forum, who said he did hear footsteps running just before he reported the fire. Why would a boat been there unattended for a day or so, catch fire on its own?

Proberly a electric fault.

Seems a bit unlikely if it's not on shore power nor with a stove going. Not impossible though. However the fire brigade / police can usually tell how the fire started especially if it was put out before the boat was totally destroyed.

[starman]

Also had neighbor knock at my boat, who is also reading this post on forum, who said he did hear footsteps running just before he reported the fire. Why would a boat been there unattended for a day or so, catch fire on its own?

Proberly a electric fault.

Equally, why an electrical fault when unattended. Could have been vandalism.

[Bettie Boo]

And further more....

 

We tend to not shut the engine off until we are moored both front & back lines, if on pins this can take up to 10 - 15 minutes depending on the ground and if I've got the front line on the right side of the boat. We start the engine before untying to leave a mooring 5 - 10 minutes.

 

Now if we were the type of folk (we're not, but a fair few hire's & leisure boater's do) that make early starts, anywhere from 5:30 - 8:00 AM or tend to not moor up for the day till 7 or 8 PM (sometimes this is the case with us) then the home owner would potentially be listening to engines running twice daily at very unsociable hours albeit for a shorter time frame, but more than likely enough to wake him up in the morning or interrupt his quiet peaceful evening in the garden.

 

Would he really be happier with that?

 

I don't personally know the gentleman in question, but I would hazard a guess that it's not really a 24 or 48 hour mooring restriction he's looking for, but rather a complete ban on mooring on the 80 yards of bank side in question.

[nicknorman]

 

I don't personally know the gentleman in question, but I would hazard a guess that it's not really a 24 or 48 hour mooring restriction he's looking for, but rather a complete ban on mooring on the 80 yards of bank side in question.

I'm sure you are right there, but that is why I am suggesting a mooring restriction as a compromise. That is a better outcome for boaters and would hopefully appease him or at least take the wind out of some of his argument. Doing nothing risks losing it all (ie a complete mooring ban such as exists elsewhere).

[cotswoldsman]

I'm sure you are right there, but that is why I am suggesting a mooring restriction as a compromise. That is a better outcome for boaters and would hopefully appease him or at least take the wind out of some of his argument. Doing nothing risks losing it all (ie a complete mooring ban such as exists elsewhere).

Elsewhere? Where?

[nicknorman]

Elsewhere? Where?

Ansty is the one closest to us. I noticed a couple of CRT no mooring signs near housing on our recent trip to Boston, can't remember where but either in Nottingham or on the lower T&M. I've also seen them on the Staffs &Worcs, can't remember exactly where.

 

So if your point is questioning whether they actually exist, they certainly do, although fortunately in relatively small numbers so far. But with the endless march of populism I can only see the problem getting worse.

Edited July 27, 2015 by nicknorman

[bigcol]

I've had a email. Hannah confirmed there are going to be posts notices erected at this area

Making it a quite area etc along this stretch. Waiting for further email re the dug out mooring photos.

 

Waiting for phone calls re the volunteer CRT ranger.

 

Col

[Mac of Cygnet]

Elsewhere? Where?

 

 

Ansty is the one closest to us. I noticed a couple of CRT no mooring signs near housing on our recent trip to Boston, can't remember where but either in Nottingham or on the lower T&M. I've also seen them in the Staffs &Worcs, can't remember exactly where.

 

The one I've seen most recently is on the Staffs & Worcs, on the stretch in front of a house above Hyde Lock north of Kinver. I've also seen them in several other places, including a stretch of about 100 yards (can't remember where) where moorers would be able to look across to the upstairs windows of a row of houses. All official CRT signage.

[cotswoldsman]

Ansty is the one closest to us. I noticed a couple of CRT no mooring signs near housing on our recent trip to Boston, can't remember where but either in Nottingham or on the lower T&M. I've also seen them on the Staffs &Worcs, can't remember exactly where.

 

So if your point is questioning whether they actually exist, they certainly do, although fortunately in relatively small numbers so far. But with the endless march of populism I can only see the problem getting worse.

If you see any of these signs they should be reported to CRT as they have stated catagoricly that they have not authorised any no mooring due to housing

 

 

 

The one I've seen most recently is on the Staffs & Worcs, on the stretch in front of a house above Hyde Lock north of Kinver. I've also seen them in several other places, including a stretch of about 100 yards (can't remember where) where moorers would be able to look across to the upstairs windows of a row of houses. All official CRT signage.

The one near Kinver I have spoken to CRT about and they asured me that it was not one of their signs and we're going to ask the householder to remove their logo. They can not stop householders putting up signs but they can stop them using the logo

[nicknorman]

If you see any of these signs they should be reported to CRT as they have stated catagoricly that they have not authorised any no mooring due to housing

They're lying. Or at best, personally misinformed. The Ansty ones have been there for years and have changed from BW to CRT.

[BruceinSanity]

If you see any of these signs they should be reported to CRT as they have stated catagoricly that they have not authorised any no mooring due to housing

There have been official BW/CRT no mooring signs on the Ansty embankment for donkey's years. There's a short stretch at Nantwich too, IIRC. It might be that they are justified by bank stability issues, possibly, but I reckon that would be post hoc rationalisation.

[cotswoldsman]

They're lying. Or at best, personally misinformed. The Ansty ones have been there for years and have changed from BW to CRT.

Of I was going to put up a sign I would have changed the logo.