Am I going to die...

[arbutus]

How come the engine fumes affected you but the sulphurous fumes from the stove chimney, much closer to you, didn't?

Occasionally the stove chimney did affect me, but on a still day the fumes exit by by head, at head height, so as the boat moves, the fumes were left behind, as opposed to the engine exhaust which I had to travel into. On a windy day, for most wind directions the stove fumes didn't get to me.

 

 

Apologies for using the wrong term for the boatman's cabin or back cabin or whatever but I'm sure I got the message across.

I should have called it the last 8' 6' of cabin space on the boat

[mark99]

I did wonder from time to time whether I was damaging my health breathing in all the exhaust from the Seffle. It was, I have to admit, a pretty filthy engine, despite being great fun. At the end of each day's boating I'd take my specs off to reveal two white rings.

 

However, what a difference when we fitted the Kelvin. There is absolutely no visible exhaust and after a day's boating the underside of the cutter is still shiny!

That's because it only fires/exhausts once every half a mile! Edited April 27, 2015 by mark99

[Athy]

 

 

 

Apologies for using the wrong term for the boatman's cabin or back cabin or whatever but I'm sure I got the message across.

I should have called it the last 8' 6' of cabin space on the boat

Across the length and breadth of the canals, men with beards are getting their tape measures out...

That's because it only fires/exhausts once every half a mile! )

...or, as it was delightfully described to me once, at every second lamp post.

[junior]

Certainly do-able. SANDBACH has a raw water cooled engine which has been fitted with a heat exchanger and calorifier. This gives hot water and makes winterising easy as the engine/exchanger/calorifier are protected by anti freeze in a closed circuit.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

As did ALBION with a Petter PH2W raw water cooled, but fed a calorifier.

 

There's a lot of sweeping statements and twaddle on this thread (and some informative stuff i grant thee).

[MtB]

Yes, "view" is absolutely the right word.

 

Oh, that one beginning with "t" ain't bad either.

 

Mr. Vale, with respect to your considerable boating experience, I don't see the logic of your remark "redesign a back cabin and it is no longer a back cabin". of course it is: it hasn't suddenly moved to the front, has it? We sleep in the back cabin of Trojan and it is by no means a trad one (no stove or table, 4'6" wide cross bed) but it's still the back cabin.

 

 

Thank you for your kind comments Mr thy.

 

Addressing your last point, I agree, yours would be the back cabin, as opposed to a Back Cabin.

 

[captain birdseye]

Having one of these modern traditional boats with a DM2 in I find that once the engine has been running for a short while there is very little smoke from the exhaust and I only occassionaly get a whiff of diesel fumes with a longish pipe and a splitter fitted.

My feeling is there are far more things likely to see you off than a bit of diesel smoke.

Ther RN has a sealed cooling system which runs the calorifier. The engine runs at a good even tempreture, whether this helps is to run clean I don't know.

[OldGoat]

Richard,

Smoky exhaust - Heavens to Murgatryod - that's rich coming from you (your avatar...) enough in one second or less to give you a lifetime's ingestion of fumes and carbon particles....

 

If you don't want smoke - don't buy a Gardner (in-house joke)...

I wont join the debate about a separate engine room - it's not so much about the use of cabin space BUT can you really make good use of the space behind the engine room everyday ? It's possible to 'waste' not only the engine room's 8 ft but also the ten (?) feet behind it.

OTOH the joy of a big lump with loadsa' torque (provided it's deep draught plus a large prop will dig you out of any mud) and think of all that brass and copper you can keep polished. Another plus point is that you will have a good space for clothes drying.

 

If you eschew a traditional smoke stack how's about a heat exchanger 'fresh' water cooled system with side discharge of both said water and exhaust fumes overboard. Traditionalists will hate you - simply Not Done Old Chap doncha know...

 

I'm in agreement with Tim; I too have a rear engined trad stern boat that hums away charging an huge battery bank and the extra long bay gives me some storage for tools as well as a place to keep wet weather gear.

[Richardcn]

Hi all

 

Many thanks for all of your opinions and thoughts.

 

As always, the depth of knowledge and experience and the willingness of forum members to pitch in and help gives one a comforting feeling when on this quest 'into the unknown'. I honestly think that without this help (often gleaned from other's questions) the quest may well have faltered by now. Trying to get to grips with exactly what we 'needed' and what to look for in a boat would have been tricky in the least and viewing would have been a nightmare without this forum. Several kindly members have also pm'd us offering assistance in looking at boats for which we cannot thank them enough. This and many other factors (sometimes from an unexpected quarter) provide us with our continuing determination to succeed. Now where's that boat...

 

Richard & Paula

[captain birdseye]

 

 

 

I wont join the debate about a separate engine room - it's not so much about the use of cabin space BUT can you really make good use of the space behind the engine room everyday ? It's possible to 'waste' not only the engine room's 8 ft but also the ten (?) feet behind it.

 

 

 

We make great use of the space behind the engine room, my two children sleep in it. It does mean that once they are in bed we are seperated by the engine room doors so we don't keep them awake. They also love having their own space with a table they can eat at or play at. My daughter especially likes having her own 'little house'. The warm engine room is also very handy for drying all the small clothes that you end up washing when you have two junior school aged children.

[Athy]

Hi all

 

Many thanks for all of your opinions and thoughts.

 

 

 

Richard & Paula

You're most welcome. But are you going to go for a boat with an engine room housing what a former CWFer charmingly called a "chuggy engine" or not?

[furnessvale]

 

Mr. Vale, with respect to your considerable boating experience, I don't see the logic of your remark "redesign a back cabin and it is no longer a back cabin". of course it is: it hasn't suddenly moved to the front, has it? We sleep in the back cabin of Trojan and it is by no means a trad one (no stove or table, 4'6" wide cross bed) but it's still the back cabin.

Playing with words perhaps, but to me a back cabin has a certain form and function (especially as the OP referred to a BMC).

 

Anything else is a cabin, or simply accommodation which happens to be nearest the stern of the boat.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Athy]

a cabin, or simply accommodation which happens to be nearest the stern of the boat.

 

 

Yes, or the "back" as it is sometimes known (said he sternly).

 

As for a BMC, that's an engine!

Edited April 27, 2015 by Athy

[Richardcn]

You're most welcome. But are you going to go for a boat with an engine room housing what a former CWFer charmingly called a "chuggy engine" or not?

Well we'll just have to wait and see if a chuggy finds us! I do believe we have a boat on 'the list' with a Kelvin, would that count?

 

Richard

 

PS. Please don't be surprised, or disappointed though, if we end up with something completely at the other end of the scale. I am just trying to keep our options open so that the boat has a better chance if finding us

Edited April 27, 2015 by Richardcn

[Phil Ambrose]

Certainly do-able. SANDBACH has a raw water cooled engine which has been fitted with a heat exchanger and calorifier. This gives hot water and makes winterising easy as the engine/exchanger/calorifier are protected by anti freeze in a closed circuit.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

On the Broads it's more than do-able it is te norm, almost all boats are raw water cooled and have calorifiers, in fact most boaters there would have no idea what a skin tank is.

Phil

[Athy]

Well we'll just have to wait and see if a chuggy finds us! I do believe we have a boat on 'the list' with a Kelvin, would that count?

 

Richard

 

PS. Please don't be surprised, or disappointed though, if we end up with something completely at the other end of the scale. I am just trying to keep our options open so that the boat has a better chance if finding us

A Kelvin most certainly counts, though very slowly!

 

You are quite right to keep your options open - indeed I am mulling over putting Trojan (with chuggy engine) on the market and going for something at the other end of the scale right now.

in fact most boaters there would have no idea what a skin tank is.

Phil

Oh, that's easy. Surely it's a sleeveless top worn by 1970-ish bovver boys?

[Richardcn]

A Kelvin most certainly counts, though very slowly!

 

You are quite right to keep your options open - indeed I am mulling over putting Trojan (with chuggy engine) on the market and going for something at the other end of the scale right now.

Oh, that's easy. Surely it's a sleeveless top worn by 1970-ish bovver boys?

Would it be worth us waiting then . If you like you could pm basic details length, price bracket etc. Just a thought!

 

Richard

[junior]

Hi all

 

Many thanks for all of your opinions and thoughts.

 

As always, the depth of knowledge and experience and the willingness of forum members to pitch in and help gives one a comforting feeling when on this quest 'into the unknown'. I honestly think that without this help (often gleaned from other's questions) the quest may well have faltered by now. Trying to get to grips with exactly what we 'needed' and what to look for in a boat would have been tricky in the least and viewing would have been a nightmare without this forum. Several kindly members have also pm'd us offering assistance in looking at boats for which we cannot thank them enough. This and many other factors (sometimes from an unexpected quarter) provide us with our continuing determination to succeed. Now where's that boat...

 

Richard & Paula

To help you decide if you're likely to die or not i have just taken this short video showing how much smoke you ccould expect from a trad engine with just a titch pipe fitted.

 

 

Edit: if anyone knows how to make the clip appear in the post, feel free to do the honours.

Edited April 27, 2015 by junior

[MtB]

You're most welcome. But are you going to go for a boat with an engine room housing what a former CWFer charmingly called a "chuggy engine" or not?

 

My memory suggests the term "chuggy engine" is not the name she coined for them.

 

She (whose name I cannot remember!) used to refer to them as "chuffy engines". An even more endearing term in my opinion!

 

 

MtB

 

 

Edit to add: It was Ally Charlton. Example thread discussing chuffy engines here:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61385&hl=%2Bchuffy+%2Bengine#entry1170689

Edited April 27, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[gary955]

I am unsure as to where you come from but around these parts what you seem to define as 'rudeness and scorn' is more usually defined as plain speaking.

Ah....I see

Well in a thread which has stayed broadly on topic for four pages and on which the OP expressed his thanks for the many helpful contributions, your "plain speaking" seems to have contributed absolutely nothing.

Edited April 27, 2015 by gary955

[OldGoat]

A Kelvin would be tops for me for a chuggy - chuffy engine.

Rumour had it that it could be made to run on Jet-A1 (or kerosene for ordinary folk) cheaper than diesel - but sourcing it on the canals would be a problem.

Never mind get a butty full of the stuff and carry it around with you...

[Athy]

 

My memory suggests the term "chuggy engine" is not the name she coined for them.

 

She (whose name I cannot remember!) used to refer to them as "chuffy engines". An even more endearing term in my opinion!

 

 

MtB

 

 

Edit to add: It was Ally Charlton. Example thread discussing chuffy engines here:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61385&hl=%2Bchuffy+%2Bengine#entry1170689

You are perfectly correct - thanks for the correction.

What has happened to the cheery Ally? I have not seen her posting on here lately. I wonder if she and her husband ever got their boat, with or without chuggy/ chuffy/ chubby (for widebeams) engine.

[mrsmelly]

You are perfectly correct - thanks for the correction.

What has happened to the cheery Ally? I have not seen her posting on here lately. I wonder if she and her husband ever got their boat, with or without chuggy/ chuffy/ chubby (for widebeams) engine.

 

Sad to say that many good posters are no longer around. My mates PJ and Bones for two no longer bother with this forum and such as Roger Gunkel went long ago. I suppose its the nature of the beast but in many ways the forum is less friendly than twas a while ago but I still hang around like a bad smell as my skin is rather thick

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

To help you decide if you're likely to die or not i have just taken this short video showing how much smoke you ccould expect from a trad engine with just a titch pipe fitted.

 

 

Edit: if anyone knows how to make the clip appear in the post, feel free to do the honours.

 

Couldn't be easier - just paste the direct URL straight into the post - don't attempt anything else.

 

 

The only way either of my HAs would look like that is if they are not running.

 

If the former owner has got the engine as good as that you are a lucky man - most HAs smoke rather a lot!

 

EDIT:

 

This is why I think it can be reasonable to ask if it might be doing you harm!

 

Edited April 27, 2015 by alan_fincher

[mark99]

Some in this forum say it's worth dying early just to be able to blow smoke rings out of your chuffer. Take that how you want.

Edited April 27, 2015 by mark99

[Ssscrudddy]

Er, have you been reading Wikipaedia again, Ssscrudddy? I don't know where else you could get such misleading information from.

My boat's engine certainly goes clunk clunk. It is most certainly old style, as the design dates back to 1931. But it is most certainly water cooled and heats domestic water through a calorifier. It is a Gardner 2LW by the way. Yes, you can get a new engine suitably sized and shaped for an engine room: the Russell Newbery DM2 if you want truly trad, the Beta Tug JD3 if you want modern dressed up to look trad. Both are water cooled.

 

Richard, you can get engine exhaust chimneys filled with what's known as a cutter. This is a semicircular band of metal mounted fore-and-aft on the top of the chimney. It, as the name suggests, cuts or splits the exhaust emissions so that they leave the chimney sideways. Of course they may sometimes blow back into the steerer's face depending on the wind speed and direction. Perhaps a kind colleague whose computer skills are superior to mine (that's probably most of them) would post a photo of one. Our first boat had an old engine (a Petter PH2) whose exhaust came out through the counter, and it was smokier than our present through-the-roof set-up, especially in locks.

 

 

Well actually only a few types of older engines are air cooled, (e.g. Lister H series, Armstrong AS types etc), and probably more are water cooled.

 

However the water cooling is often raw water, not skin tank, making heating domestic water more of a challenge, but not impossible.

 

Not to everybody's taste, but the Beta JD3 or BD3 tug engine is often considered as looking not out of place in an engine room, and being "modern". Many think they don't really replicate a truly traditional sound though.

That's good to know.

 

Wikidpedia? That's a bit mean.