Fwd article "Bargees collision course with CaRT"

[Laurence Hogg]

I was made aware of this article on NBW written by Eric Weiss yesterday. To my eyes its right on the ball and is a good reflection of the true situation which is unfolding.

 

<<

Bargees collision course with CaRT

 

 

 

Friday, 17 April 2015 10:05

I FIND it strange how the National Bargees Travellers Association and supporters, seem set on a permanent collision course with CaRT by claiming they are being intimidated with threats of ‘eviction and intimidation', writes Eric Weiss.

These highly emotive terms are the current smokescreens of choice for those who cry ‘foul' when challenged for not complying with the rules that apply to everyone who chooses to licence their boat, with or without access to a home mooring. Can anyone really be evicted from a boat they own?

Virtually static

They are neither Bargees nor Travellers if they don't carry freight or are virtually static. The Towpath Squatters Not-Moving-Far Boat Association would be more appropriate; however, it has a less romantic ring to it I suppose.

Everyone in the world should have access to accommodation, so why don't they collectively find a piece of land alongside the canal and buy caravans, instead of pretending to be bona-fide continuous cruisers?

Not a cheap option

Here on the 42 miles Lancaster we are disconnected from the main system for nine months of the year, yet we have ‘continuous cruisers' who stay on year after year while other liveaboards with moorings are even being hit with Council Tax demands as well as mooring fees. Living afloat is definitely not a cheap option.

CaRT is not ‘landlord': neither when it was established, was it charged with functioning as an alternative social housing organisation. The fact that inner London and associated waterways seem over burdened with continuous cruisers who barely move and have forced CaRT's hand to attempt to define in specific terms words such as ‘distance' ‘place' ‘area' ‘range' so that they stand up to legal scrutiny.

Floating shanty town

Lawyers being lawyers, charge like wounded bulls, and we compliant boaters will have to pick up the bill. What the NBTA are actually doing will affect everyone. Even the non-boaters who appreciate the canals for walking, fishing, nature rambling and such will effectively be tramping past accumulations of boats running the risk of resembling the equivalent of a Calcutta floating shanty town.

The prospect even now, begs the unsavoury question of what is happening to the water quality and immediate environment with the unavoidable detritus and effluent being generated by concentrated living conditions.

Deny access to boaters

Mooring blockers in such concentrations deny access to continuous cruisers and leisure boaters alike. More sanitary stations and water-points although always desirable, are costly to provide and maintain and will effectively encourage the sense of permanency that will attract even more ‘residents' unless CaRT and the boating associations hammer out an acceptable and binding agreement.

The last thing we want to see is our national licence fee being increased disproportionately and used to fund a British waterways police force or the introduction of complex legislation along the lines of the Queen's Military Regulations. >>

 

[onionbargee]

I certainly don't want to be represented by any organisation with "traveller" in the title. Boaters have no connection to that well known criminal gang .

[cotswoldsman]

Nothing like a bit of divide and conquer

[nicknorman]

I think it was NBTA that started the divide.

[blackrose]

I certainly don't want to be represented by any organisation with "traveller" in the title. Boaters have no connection to that well known criminal gang .

 

Which well known criminal gang?

[David Schweizer]

I certainly don't want to be represented by any organisation with "traveller" in the title. Boaters have no connection to that well known criminal gang .

 

Unfortunately that term has been hijacked in recent years to describe any untidy person who lives in a vehicle parked in a layby or field Originally it was the preferred term used by Romany Gypsies in the 1960's to describe themselves.

[Guest]

 

Unfortunately that term has been hijacked in recent years to describe any untidy person who lives in a vehicle parked in a layby or field Originally it was the preferred term used by Romany Gypsies in the 1960's to describe themselves.

Yes it has become something of a stereotype, which is rather sad.

I can think of a few undesirable folk who have pleasure boats.

[peterboat]

Seems a well written well balanced article and its highlighted the point of what does happen to all the crap they produce

 

Peter

[alan_fincher]

Seems a well written well balanced article and its highlighted the point of what does happen to all the crap they produce

 

Peter

 

The only way this rant is "balanced" is that it takes one extreme position on the scales, whereas many who support NBTA is largely at the other extreme.

 

"Balance" in my view needs at least a degree of being able to see the other person's viewpoint, (however much it differs from your own), and maybe having some understanding of how history, and in particular BW doing nothing over the years that was likely to change an outcome, has led us to where we are.

 

There is extreme bigotry possible on either side of the chasm that has opened up around attitudes to some live-aboard boats, and in my view playing on that situation just widens the divides, and makes it increasingly less likely that there can be any working towards more sensible positions.

 

I imagine CRT love this kind of crap - whilst boaters can attack each other in this way, they can continue to sit back and not do a lot, arguing, if they choose to, that anything they do do will not meet the approval of large numbers of boat owners.

 

How about we be less extremist, and start to think how some of the issues could be solved.

 

Unfortunately, in my view some of the latest "initiatives" by CRT will do nothing to improve things at all - quite the reverse, as they have pissed off many of the normally most moderate of us.

[BargeeSpud]

I've never collided with C&RT in my life!

 

Weren't me guv.

[Wanted]

Just more divisive tripe from those that fail to accept difference.

[peterboat]

Sorry read it again and it still makes sense cant see a rant just facts NBTA are nether bargees are travelers because they do neither. I pay my way in 3 years or so I want to be a CCer under the current legislation I can do this and will. However dreamers are destroying the waterways I love, they dream of a cheap life where everyone else pays for their lifestyle and when they are asked to pay they cry foul.

When the canals are blocked with rubbish and filth then maybe some people will remove those rose tinted specs

 

Peter

[cuthound]

If (apparently), they don't move, how can they collide with anything?

[GoodGurl]

CRT can be and sometimes are very helpful, it depends how you approach them with problems, if you go in demanding something be done inevitably it wont be done and they will dig their heels in, on the other hand if you talk to them civilly they will respond in the same manner, threatening and attacking them will get you nowhere.

[alan_fincher]

Sorry read it again and it still makes sense cant see a rant just facts NBTA are nether bargees are travelers because they do neither. I pay my way in 3 years or so I want to be a CCer under the current legislation I can do this and will. However dreamers are destroying the waterways I love, they dream of a cheap life where everyone else pays for their lifestyle and when they are asked to pay they cry foul.

 

So, if I understand, in about three years you will be paying for a licence for a boat that you will be living on, and will be "paying your own way".

 

In the meantime most of these alleged "non movers", are paying for a licence at exactly the same rates as you will be paying, (there is only one class of licence), but they are apparently having "a cheap life", and somebody else is "paying for their life-style".

 

I must be missing something here, I think!

[MtB]

 

So, if I understand, in about three years you will be paying for a licence for a boat that you will be living on, and will be "paying your own way".

 

In the meantime most of these alleged "non movers", are paying for a licence at exactly the same rates as you will be paying, (there is only one class of licence), but they are apparently having "a cheap life", and somebody else is "paying for their life-style".

 

I must be missing something here, I think!

 

I think the argument goes that if you stay put in one place you should be paying for a mooring. CRT would benefit from a proportion of the mooring fees.

[Lady Muck]

Can I suggest that anyone who holds the opinions on this thread attends one of NBTA legal meetings? As Maffi did the other month and was surprised, he mentioned it on his blog. No one is being told to not cruise - the reverse is true.

They are the only ones explaining things to boaters in plain english. I know at least two boater orgs, NABO and ACC have been very approving of some of the work they've done in this area, it's a shame more boaters can't recognise this too.

Boaters are being refused licenses for cruising well over 100 miles a year in some cases. The boat counting is a mess, there is no guarantee that any ccer won't be targetted because of this. So people are really very scared of what is happening.

All NBTA are asking is that CRT abide by the canal act. In many cases they are not doing this. In many cases they are not following their own procedures. Boaters are not even getting letters. The other week I heard that a boater who had requested her movement records was refused them, this is a breach of the data protection act. The whole situation is a mess. So, I think, before boaters begin attacking each other, they ought to encourage CRT to get their own house in order.

Yes their pr is sensationlist and the name of their org is lame and I think it does them no favours, when in truth, behind the scenes they have more in common with the waterways chaplaincy.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Lady Muck

[BargeeSpud]

!

Can I suggest that anyone who holds the opinions on this thread attends one of NBTA legal meetings? As Maffi did the other month and was surprised, he mentioned it on his blog. No one is being told to not cruise - the reverse is true.

They are the only ones explaining things to boaters in plain english. I know at least two boater orgs, NABO and ACC have been very approving of some of the work they've done in this area, it's a shame more boaters can't recognise this too.

Boaters are being refused licenses for cruising well over 100 miles a year in some cases. The boat counting is a mess, there is no guarantee that any ccer won't be targetted because of this. So people are really very scared of what is happening.

All NBTA are asking is that CRT abide by the canal act. In many cases they are not doing this. In many cases they are not following their own procedures. Boaters are not even getting letters. The other week I heard that a boater who had requested her movement records was refused them, this is a breach of the data protection act. The whole situation is a mess. So, I think, before boaters begin attacking each other, they ought to encourage CRT to get their own house in order.

Yes their pr is sensationlist and the name of their org is lame and I think it does them no favours, when in truth, behind the scenes they have more in common with the waterways chaplaincy.

Well said!

[Guest]

Can I suggest that anyone who holds the opinions on this thread attends one of NBTA legal meetings? As Maffi did the other month and was surprised, he mentioned it on his blog. No one is being told to not cruise - the reverse is true.

They are the only ones explaining things to boaters in plain english. I know at least two boater orgs, NABO and ACC have been very approving of some of the work they've done in this area, it's a shame more boaters can't recognise this too.

Boaters are being refused licenses for cruising well over 100 miles a year in some cases. The boat counting is a mess, there is no guarantee that any ccer won't be targetted because of this. So people are really very scared of what is happening.

All NBTA are asking is that CRT abide by the canal act. In many cases they are not doing this. In many cases they are not following their own procedures. Boaters are not even getting letters. The other week I heard that a boater who had requested her movement records was refused them, this is a breach of the data protection act. The whole situation is a mess. So, I think, before boaters begin attacking each other, they ought to encourage CRT to get their own house in order.

Yes their pr is sensationlist and the name of their org is lame and I think it does them no favours, when in truth, behind the scenes they have more in common with the waterways chaplaincy.

An enlightening post.

[jenlyn]

Can I suggest that anyone who holds the opinions on this thread attends one of NBTA legal meetings? As Maffi did the other month and was surprised, he mentioned it on his blog. No one is being told to not cruise - the reverse is true.

They are the only ones explaining things to boaters in plain english. I know at least two boater orgs, NABO and ACC have been very approving of some of the work they've done in this area, it's a shame more boaters can't recognise this too.

Boaters are being refused licenses for cruising well over 100 miles a year in some cases. The boat counting is a mess, there is no guarantee that any ccer won't be targetted because of this. So people are really very scared of what is happening.

All NBTA are asking is that CRT abide by the canal act. In many cases they are not doing this. In many cases they are not following their own procedures. Boaters are not even getting letters. The other week I heard that a boater who had requested her movement records was refused them, this is a breach of the data protection act. The whole situation is a mess. So, I think, before boaters begin attacking each other, they ought to encourage CRT to get their own house in order.

Yes their pr is sensationlist and the name of their org is lame and I think it does them no favours, when in truth, behind the scenes they have more in common with the waterways chaplaincy.

Virtual greenie. Well said.

[Guest]

 

The only way this rant is "balanced" is that it takes one extreme position on the scales, whereas many who support NBTA is largely at the other extreme.

 

"Balance" in my view needs at least a degree of being able to see the other person's viewpoint, (however much it differs from your own), and maybe having some understanding of how history, and in particular BW doing nothing over the years that was likely to change an outcome, has led us to where we are.

 

There is extreme bigotry possible on either side of the chasm that has opened up around attitudes to some live-aboard boats, and in my view playing on that situation just widens the divides, and makes it increasingly less likely that there can be any working towards more sensible positions.

 

I imagine CRT love this kind of crap - whilst boaters can attack each other in this way, they can continue to sit back and not do a lot, arguing, if they choose to, that anything they do do will not meet the approval of large numbers of boat owners.

 

How about we be less extremist, and start to think how some of the issues could be solved.

 

Unfortunately, in my view some of the latest "initiatives" by CRT will do nothing to improve things at all - quite the reverse, as they have pissed off many of the normally most moderate of us.

Indeed. Unfortunately though, some people are not content unless they have their knife in somebody else.

[nicknorman]

Whilst it does seem as though CRT have some failings, (I say "seems" because for me it's only hearsay) let's not forget that we got here as a result of people entering into an agreement with BW/CRT that from the outset they had not intention of abiding by. It' may well be true that BW / CRT have not handled that dishonesty well, but as I said, let's remember who started it.

[cotswoldsman]

Can I suggest that anyone who holds the opinions on this thread attends one of NBTA legal meetings? As Maffi did the other month and was surprised, he mentioned it on his blog. No one is being told to not cruise - the reverse is true.

They are the only ones explaining things to boaters in plain english. I know at least two boater orgs, NABO and ACC have been very approving of some of the work they've done in this area, it's a shame more boaters can't recognise this too.

Boaters are being refused licenses for cruising well over 100 miles a year in some cases. The boat counting is a mess, there is no guarantee that any ccer won't be targetted because of this. So people are really very scared of what is happening.

All NBTA are asking is that CRT abide by the canal act. In many cases they are not doing this. In many cases they are not following their own procedures. Boaters are not even getting letters. The other week I heard that a boater who had requested her movement records was refused them, this is a breach of the data protection act. The whole situation is a mess. So, I think, before boaters begin attacking each other, they ought to encourage CRT to get their own house in order.

Yes their pr is sensationlist and the name of their org is lame and I think it does them no favours, when in truth, behind the scenes they have more in common with the waterways chaplaincy.

Great post as I was reading what some are saying I was wondering how to reply seems that between you and Alan there is no need except maybe to ask some that seem to want to knock NBTA because of what they read on here to provide a link to where NBTA support staying more than 14 days in one place

[kris88]

Can I suggest that anyone who holds the opinions on this thread attends one of NBTA legal meetings? As Maffi did the other month and was surprised, he mentioned it on his blog. No one is being told to not cruise - the reverse is true.

They are the only ones explaining things to boaters in plain english. I know at least two boater orgs, NABO and ACC have been very approving of some of the work they've done in this area, it's a shame more boaters can't recognise this too.

Boaters are being refused licenses for cruising well over 100 miles a year in some cases. The boat counting is a mess, there is no guarantee that any ccer won't be targetted because of this. So people are really very scared of what is happening.

All NBTA are asking is that CRT abide by the canal act. In many cases they are not doing this. In many cases they are not following their own procedures. Boaters are not even getting letters. The other week I heard that a boater who had requested her movement records was refused them, this is a breach of the data protection act. The whole situation is a mess. So, I think, before boaters begin attacking each other, they ought to encourage CRT to get their own house in order.

Yes their pr is sensationlist and the name of their org is lame and I think it does them no favours, when in truth, behind the scenes they have more in common with the waterways chaplaincy.

Now that's a balenced we'll written post

Regards kris

[gazza]

Can I suggest that anyone who holds the opinions on this thread attends one of NBTA legal meetings? As Maffi did the other month and was surprised, he mentioned it on his blog. No one is being told to not cruise - the reverse is true.

They are the only ones explaining things to boaters in plain english. I know at least two boater orgs, NABO and ACC have been very approving of some of the work they've done in this area, it's a shame more boaters can't recognise this too.

Boaters are being refused licenses for cruising well over 100 miles a year in some cases. The boat counting is a mess, there is no guarantee that any ccer won't be targetted because of this. So people are really very scared of what is happening.

All NBTA are asking is that CRT abide by the canal act. In many cases they are not doing this. In many cases they are not following their own procedures. Boaters are not even getting letters. The other week I heard that a boater who had requested her movement records was refused them, this is a breach of the data protection act. The whole situation is a mess. So, I think, before boaters begin attacking each other, they ought to encourage CRT to get their own house in order.

Yes their pr is sensationlist and the name of their org is lame and I think it does them no favours, when in truth, behind the scenes they have more in common with the waterways chaplaincy.

I've got to ask this.

 

Hand on heart do you think well over 100 miles in a year is a progressive and continuous journey?

 

Let's call it 8.5 miles a month, or 0.28 of a mile a day. Not a great deal is it?

 

I do a quarter of the well over 100 miles in one day during our trips onto the Great Ouse.

 

If the Bargee and Travellers barged and traveled a bit more they wouldn't be in this mess.

 

As for the ridiculous suggestion by C&RT that 20 odd miles is sufficient cruising in a year - words fail me!