Triple-whammy wood fuel warning

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Boaters using damp wood and logs in their stoves could be risking a triple whammy including increased costs, stove damage and carbon monoxide poisoning says the Boat Safety Scheme.

 

It is crucial that wood fuel is kept in a dry, well-ventilated area. If not, the damp fuel will cause the stove to run at a lower temperature as the heat of the fire will be producing steam and so the stove needs much more fuel to keep the boat warm.

 

Even worse, the steam dissolves-out flammable, acidic tars which will cling to and block up, as well as inevitably damage, the stove and its chimney.

 

Damaged stove installations are more likely to leak combustion gases into the cabin space, and because of incomplete combustion as the fuel is damp, those gases are more likely to contain carbon monoxide (CO) – giving the vicious cycle that could see a highly toxic atmosphere in the boat. Stove flues lined with tar could also lead to a chimney fire...

 

...read more at http://bit.ly/woodfuelwisdom

 

Hope it helps forumites to avoid being hit by unnecessary costs, carbon monoxide or fire.

 

Regards

Rob

[casper ghost]

Still seems odd that the BSS doesn't insist on a CO alarm, when it insists on so much unnecessary other stuff.

Casp'

[nicknorman]

Still seems odd that the BSS doesn't insist on a CO alarm, when it insists on so much unnecessary other stuff.

Casp'

Just what I was thinking.

[Sabcat]

Still seems odd that the BSS doesn't insist on a CO alarm, when it insists on so much unnecessary other stuff.

Casp'

 

A healthy sense of self preservation of anyone living in what amounts to a metal box that contains gas appliances and another smaller metal box for keeping fire in insists on a CO alarm.

 

A person would have to be simple not to have one. Or a canary.

[Mac of Cygnet]

On the other hand, a leaking stove burning smokeless fuel will also produce CO, and will be much less obvious than if burning wood. I hope this article will not deter people from using wood as a fuel.

 

I have a CO alarm.

[Lady Muck]

Still seems odd that the BSS doesn't insist on a CO alarm, when it insists on so much unnecessary other stuff.

Casp'

I think it might be to do with them not being specifically designed for boats?

[Timleech]

On the other hand, a leaking stove burning smokeless fuel will also produce CO, and will be much less obvious than if burning wood. I hope this article will not deter people from using wood as a fuel.

 

I have a CO alarm.

 

Burning damp or unseasoned wood is to be discouraged, though. Apart from the issues raised by the OP, the fumes from it can be antisocial and unhealthy for others - especially if burned slowly.

 

Tim

[Lady Muck]

Its horrible but a few boaters do it for reasons of poverty - it's nigh on impossible to claim benefits if you are a ccer, I see it all the time, boaters with virtually no income, existing on goodwill of other boaters and burning any old damp or scrap wood that they can.

[mrsmelly]

Its horrible but a few boaters do it for reasons of poverty - it's nigh on impossible to claim benefits if you are a ccer, I see it all the time, boaters with virtually no income, existing on goodwill of other boaters and burning any old damp or scrap wood that they can.

I think thats a sad but true statement. I never burn wood. I tried it years ago when I first became a liveaboard but havnt burnt any for well over twenty years. Its simply far more hassle than smokeless but one day I may well have to burn it.....oh thats after Ive fitted a stove next week on the latest boat. Yes believe it or not people still build boats without solid fuel stoves I kid you not. Simply barmy.

 

Tim

[b0atman]

Due to global warming being a failure the summer is not enough time to collect fuel wood in quantities that will last through the cold part of the year.

The benefit of CCing is that one will come across far more free wood than a CMer but will it last a winter season ?

[MtB]

I think it might be to do with them not being specifically designed for boats?

 

I think this is right. When you read this instructions it is usually impossible or inappropriate to comply with the fitting requirements when installing in a boat, IIRC.

 

MtB

[Boaty Jo]

Here's something I've not come across before, Oak Nuggets. Price is favourable compared with smokeless coal, but very eco-friendly (according the them)

Scroll down the page.

http://www.fourseasonsfuel.co.uk/logs-firewood-and-kindling/hardwood-loose-logs-7-0-P-5/

 

It's an interesting site with lots of info.

We used to burn about 4 m3 over a winter. Based on that smokeless composites are cheaper than seasoned hard-wood in the UK based on a couple of 25kg bags / week.

CO alarms do work on boats based on my friend's experience (despite the fact that it's nearly impossible to comply with fitting instructions). For a time he had 2 ash-pans for his Squirrel and used to put a full one under the fire to cool off before bagging and chucking. Fumes from the hot residue set the CO alarm off.

[Machpoint005]

Due to global warming being a failure the summer is not enough time to collect fuel wood in quantities that will last through the cold part of the year.

The benefit of CCing is that one will come across far more free wood than a CMer but will it last a winter season ?

 

"Global warming" is just one aspect of what should properly be called "climate change".

You need a lot of wood, though, if you're burning it from September to May.

[David Schweizer]

 

I think this is right. When you read this instructions it is usually impossible or inappropriate to comply with the fitting requirements when installing in a boat, IIRC.

 

MtB

 

We have a CO alarm fitted in our boat, but I do not recall experiencing any problems fitting it in accordance with the instructions. From memory, the critical issues were distance from potential CO generating equipmentm, and the height from the floor and ceiling, all of which could be accomodated.

 

Edited:- to correct CO2 CO error ( I never was any good at chemistry!!)

Edited January 22, 2015 by David Schweizer

[MarkHez]

 

the critical issues were distance from potential CO2 generating equipment

What, like people?

[PaulG]

 

We have a CO2 alarm fitted in our boat, but I do not recall experiencing any problems fitting it in accordance with the instructions. From memory, the critical issues were distance from potential CO2 generating equipmentm, and the height from the floor and ceiling, all of which could be accomodated.

*pedant alert*

I think you mean a CO alarm.

CO is poisonous.

CO2 is not poisonous , but is heavier than air and can cause suffocation in enclosed spaces.

[David Schweizer]

*pedant alert*

I think you mean a CO alarm.

CO is poisonous.

CO2 is not poisonous , but is heavier than air and can cause suffocation in enclosed spaces.

 

Yes, I realise my mistake, original post now corrected.

Edited January 22, 2015 by David Schweizer

[Radiomariner]

Its horrible but a few boaters do it for reasons of poverty - it's nigh on impossible to claim benefits if you are a ccer, I see it all the time, boaters with virtually no income, existing on goodwill of other boaters and burning any old damp or scrap wood that they can.

Yes, I see this frequently on BSS examinations. I know CO alarms are not very expensive, but when a boater has to scrape a few pence to meet the cost of his BSS Exam, no matter how much advice I give or pamphlets I issue I know the boater is not going to rush out and buy one. It will always be on their "intentions" list for a time they can afford it. Come summer the solid fuel stove is no longer required and the CO alarm gets forgotten. Cold weather returns and back it goes on to the intention list.

 

One boater asked for an extra CO pamphlet because it was just the correct size to block off his ventilators to reduce drafts!!!

Edited January 22, 2015 by Radiomariner

[Machpoint005]

*pedant alert*

I think you mean a CO alarm.

CO is poisonous.

CO2 is not poisonous , but is heavier than air and can cause suffocation in enclosed spaces.

 

A CO₂ alarm would go off rather too often as well, given that we breathe the stuff out along with other atmospheric gases.

Not pedantry - you wouldn't write 'hydrogen peroxide' if you meant 'water'.

(vice versa, strictly speaking, of course!)

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Here's something I've not come across before, Oak Nuggets. Price is favourable compared with smokeless coal, but very eco-friendly (according the them)

Scroll down the page.

http://www.fourseasonsfuel.co.uk/logs-firewood-and-kindling/hardwood-loose-logs-7-0-P-5/

 

It's an interesting site with lots of info.

We used to burn about 4 m3 over a winter. Based on that smokeless composites are cheaper than seasoned hard-wood in the UK based on a couple of 25kg bags / week.

CO alarms do work on boats based on my friend's experience (despite the fact that it's nearly impossible to comply with fitting instructions). For a time he had 2 ash-pans for his Squirrel and used to put a full one under the fire to cool off before bagging and chucking. Fumes from the hot residue set the CO alarm off.

 

I turned to burning the manufactured logs when I ran out of natural logs recently. I was very sceptical as the packs are comparatively expensive compared with bulk log deliveries. However, I find that both brands I have used burn longer than same size logs and they are much, much warmer. One brand lasts longer than the other and each 'log' unit probably lasts three or more times longer than the size equivalent seasoned hardwood log. And it gives out more heat for the whole of the burn.

 

A lot of work is going on behind the scenes on the subject of CO on boats. Keep watching the BSS space for a while.

 

Keep in mind the potential for fire from potential tar lining the stove chimney pipe, especially if the fire starts running away.

[Keeping Up]

One issue I had with some manufactured logs, was that they appeared to be made of sawdust bound with glue. The first thing to burn away was the glue, so that when I opened the front door of my stove, after a few seconds the whole lot tumbled forwards as a heap of smouldering sawdust - straight out of the front of the stove and on to the hearth. Some of it spilled over to the carpet in front of the hearth and burnt a large patch of my brand-new carpet!

[MtB]

Did you die as a result?

[Keeping Up]

Did you die as a result?

Very nearly (Pingu would have killed me if she could)

[Phil Ambrose]

Here's something I've not come across before, Oak Nuggets. Price is favourable compared with smokeless coal, but very eco-friendly (according the them)

Scroll down the page.

http://www.fourseasonsfuel.co.uk/logs-firewood-and-kindling/hardwood-loose-logs-7-0-P-5/

 

It's an interesting site with lots of info.

We used to burn about 4 m3 over a winter. Based on that smokeless composites are cheaper than seasoned hard-wood in the UK based on a couple of 25kg bags / week.

CO alarms do work on boats based on my friend's experience (despite the fact that it's nearly impossible to comply with fitting instructions). For a time he had 2 ash-pans for his Squirrel and used to put a full one under the fire to cool off before bagging and chucking. Fumes from the hot residue set the CO alarm off

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that CO alarms work on boats at least not me because I experienced a situation due to me over banking the fire in rather windy conditions

Phil

Edited January 22, 2015 by Phil Ambrose

[churchward]

Its horrible but a few boaters do it for reasons of poverty - it's nigh on impossible to claim benefits if you are a ccer, I see it all the time, boaters with virtually no income, existing on goodwill of other boaters and burning any old damp or scrap wood that they can.

Yes indeed and probably worse still burning scrap wood with paint or other residues on them that can also produce quite toxic fumes as well as any CO risks.