larryjc Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 So - not a question on alternators or batteries for a change. Last summer we were pootling along and came across that famous steam powered boat who's name I've forgotten. Looked a lot of fun and her steam whistle made a great noise. However, it got my brain cells churning. One of the things I dislike about narrow boating is the rattle of the diesel engine. Wouldn't it be nice to glide along in silence? I know one can use electickery for this but cost is a major issue as well as range. So why not a steam engine? They were making steam cars a hundred years ago. I've done a bit of research on the interweb and the only steam plants I can discover are old things like the ones in the old Scammel trucks and they change hands for a fortune. Does anyone know of a modern equivalent? The best solution would probably be a nice small turbine system with a condenser but even a total loss system would be fine as water supply will hardly be a problem. Maybe if no one is making such a thing there is a business opportunity here - it could run on just about anything that burns, be almost silent yet make a great noise when you blew the whistle. Just a thought. Oh and if anyone thinks this is a daft idea - a few years ago I installed a one thousand two hundred horsepower Gnome gas turbine from a Wessex helicopter into a triumph TR4 so have a track record of 'innovative' engine installations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 May be of interest, not updated since 2013 but it is still out there. http://www.tunneltug.org.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0atman Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 A fellow I worked with said for a narrowboat size steam engine you need to look at the USA . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) DHutch (owner of CWDF) has a steam powered narrowboat... Here is his blog - http://www.emilyanne.co.uk/ Edited January 9, 2015 by Robbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryjc Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 There seems to be quite a few articles on the web and few innovative designs but nothing in the power/size volume that my boat would need - about 30-40 hp. I shall keep looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Davis Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 There seems to be quite a few articles on the web and few innovative designs but nothing in the power/size volume that my boat would need - about 30-40 hp. I shall keep looking. Would you need that HP from a steam engine? I would suggest you talk to one of the engine makers to see what they say. Quite often the power can be varied by the use of different cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 There is also this boat: http://nb-president.org.uk/ A thread here: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10971 and here: http://nbepiphany.co.uk/1940-to-steam-or-not-to-steam-on-a-narrowboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryjc Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Would you need that HP from a steam engine? I would suggest you talk to one of the engine makers to see what they say. Quite often the power can be varied by the use of different cylinders. My problem is finding these elusive 'engine makers' I found this lot in the UK http://prestonservices.co.uk/category/steam-engines/marine-engines/ but they only sell old stuff. There are several in the US but most of are like this lot http://www.steamlaunch.com/engines/index.html. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I believe Brinklow Boat Services and the owner of Hasty manufactured the engine for Hasty, have a word with them: http://brinklowboatservices.com/ Edited January 9, 2015 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 a few years ago I installed a one thousand two hundred horsepower Gnome gas turbine from a Wessex helicopter into a triumph TR4 so have a track record of 'innovative' engine installations. Why not stick that in a narrowboat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryjc Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Why not stick that in a narrowboat. Well it ticked over at 16000 rpm and the exhaust was 22 inches in diameter so it sort of negates the point about a quiet system. Mind you it would be fun to see a 60ft narrow boat on the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) There seems to be quite a few articles on the web and few innovative designs but nothing in the power/size volume that my boat would need - about 30-40 hp. I shall keep looking.Better still would be steam-electric, instead of needing a large boiler to cater for the occasional need for full power a smaller boiler could supply a small steam turbine driving an alternator to charge batteries for electric drive. Turbine could be run in near silence for long hours, even 24/7 perhaps. More flexible than steam alone. ETA: Problem is finding a true miniature steam turbine, there is one in existence somewhere, built by RAF apprentices I believe, but otherwise none I think. Edited January 9, 2015 by nb Innisfree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Vectis Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 This web site might prove useful: http://www.steamboatassociation.org.uk/. Have a look at the 'engines' page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titus Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Have you seen Whistle down the Wind (based on the Leeds and Liverpool) Edited January 9, 2015 by Titus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Would you need that HP from a steam engine? I would suggest you talk to one of the engine makers to see what they say. Quite often the power can be varied by the use of different cylinders. I'd look at more like 15 - 20 bhp, 40 would need a BIG boiler (in narrowboat terms). Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 >>Oh and if anyone thinks this is a daft idea - a few years ago I installed a one thousand two hundred horsepower Gnome gas turbine from a Wessex helicopter into a triumph TR4 so have a track record of 'innovative' engine installations. Even though you've done it, it was still a daft idea, but you proved it was possible. Did you drive it legally on the highway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) I used to help run a couple passenger steam boats on the Thames. Being in charge of the boiler and engine is great, but when you have to load coal into the bunkers and clean the boiler out before the next trip you realise why steam died out. This is a very short video clip I took on my phone a few years ago. Edited January 10, 2015 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHutch Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 It seems I should post on this thread! You have seen our website, and also details of some of the other boats on the system, and a link to the SBA which is a fountain of knowledge including a large library of boiler and engine designs. As you might expect, new steam plant is slightly less 'off the shelf' than a 4 cylinder diesel but perfectly available. Tixal, Emilyanne and Whistle down the wind all have the larger of the three 'A.A.Leak' compounds which Arthur Leak designed for recreational use and measured 4.5+7.5*4, Tixals and Emilyannes where made for the boats in questions by Anthony Beaver in 1986 and 1991 respectively, the latter being one of the last one Leek himself made. Adamant, another boat, also has a very similar sized compound, which is a vintage Cocraine unit and measures 4+8*5 from memory. This size gives around around 20 IHP I am told, and certainly is well matched to a narrow boat. The second larges Leek unit is around 3+6*3 , is very common in Thames/Windermere launches running a compound and much of the points concerning it is relevant. Hasty then has a slightly larger engine, which is also in it second home, having been repatriated from a technical collage, details on the tunnel-tug website. - All run with a vertical fire tube boiler, condensing, using an in board condenser, and is what I would favour. Most of the other boats on the list I have at emilyanne.co.uk run a single of one form or another. Steam equipment it rairely cheap to acquire, but do not use the Preston Marine services site as a benchmark for priced. How available would you be for a days boating in the Northwest/Midlands? Unforeseen events aside, EmilyAnne will be recommissioned for the summer around Easter time and will boat every 2-3 weekends from then onwards until early October. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryjc Posted January 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Even though you've done it, it was still a daft idea, but you proved it was possible. Did you drive it legally on the highway? No - drove it on an old airfield but never had the time or money to take it further. Thanks for the other replies - need to think on this including how to explain to the wife that she might end up shovelling more coal than we put on the Morso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHutch Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 No - drove it on an old airfield but never had the time or money to take it further. Very good! Coal wise, while it is clearly a while away from a turn-key diesel engine, our steam plant can quite happily manage canal cruising fired briefly every 20 minutes. Daily consumption being around 100kg for ten hours boating, of which 25kg is the initial raising of steam. We have capacity to carry 1.5 ton, which is purchased online in 1 ton canalside deliveries. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarUKKiwi Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Wrong thread ....stupid phone Edited January 9, 2015 by StarUKKiwi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George94 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I would use diesel for fuel. Much cleaner and more convenient. You could probably convert an old Rayburn. Or two or three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpur Hill Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Try www.steamtractionworld.com may give you some ideas. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryjc Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Going back to my original post, it seems that steam in the sense of modern technology is a non starter. All the boats mentioned here and all the web sites I've found are based around either vintage engines or rebuilt versions thereof. I suppose it goes down to the power of the automotive industry who are so set in their ways with the internal combustion engine. Even as we move to hybrids they still use them as the on board power source. Gas turbines or steam turbines would be far more efficient and flexible. Any motive power source that burns fuel continually has to be more thermodynamically efficient and certainly more flexible as to what fuels you can use. In my RN days when I flew helicopters there were a raft of alternate fuels we could use if normal aviation fuel wasn't available. At one time the even experimented with the Nimbus in a Wasp running on powdered coal. Maybe I'll re look at the gas turbine idea - the Auxiliary Power Unit in an F4 Phantom kicked out about 250 bhp and was the size of a suitcase - now that would make the boat go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpur Hill Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 My link, above, was not the one I originally intended but if you follow it to the Lykamobile you will find more than a model. I have seen one of these running & was quite impressed. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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