Connecting water system direct to mains supply

[Boatingbiker]

In buildings that need to meet BREEAM requirements, credits are awarded for saving water by switching off the water supply in the event of leaks. Which is what I believe the OP was asking for . A domestic system is approx £200 A typical manufacturer is the Waterguard Home system. Google waterguard This sytem works on the basis that is water is running for more than a preset time then a leak is assumed and will switch off the water supply. They are approved by the water authorities be be installed in buildings so could be used for a supply to a boat. Hope this helps

 

Edited to add, reference to non-return valve. Under current water regulations this is a requirement, irrespective of the above device.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Boatingbiker

[magnetman]

Interesting information

Thanks

[smileypete]

A spin-off from my previous topic.

 

How do you 'safely' connect the boats domestic water system to a mains water supply?

 

whats the best way to do this? I am a bit bothered by the idea but maybe there is a recognised way of doing It. Pretty sure a lot of boats are plumbed like this but are there any 'tricks' like a pressure switch or do you just have a water flow alarm which alerts you if there is water running but no tap open.

 

I have always fundamentally disliked the idea but it would be very useful to be able to bypass the pump while on the mooring

 

Depending on circumstances, a water metering valve, bottom left on the first page, or a 'water block':

 

http://www.everyvalve.com/page13.html

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/101.asp

 

There's also various issues to consider including leaks before the valve, excess mains pressure, and frost.

 

Something I'd like to try is have the main tank fed by small header tank and cistern valve, itself fed by a tiny trickle of water from the stand pipe, but that retains the use of the 12V pump.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited December 23, 2014 by smileypete

[MtB]

Surely the problem is easily solved. If the boat sinks, turn the bilge pump ON.

 

Or more seriously, have an automatic bilge pump which can pump the water OUT faster than the hose pipe can squirt it IN should a pipe split.

 

Oh, and connect the bilge pump batteries to a shoreline charger.

 

Is this really still a boat?

 

 

MtB

[Iain_S]

THIS (also suggested by Smileypete) would limit the extent of leakage from a burst pipe.

 

If connected directly to the tank, there should be a double check valve in the line as well, to prevent possible back contamination of the mains supply. (There should be one in the shore tap, but there may not be ...)

 

The header tank idea would work if the water level in the header was below the level of the tank vent, which might be difficult to arrange, depending on water tank layout.

 

Alternative is the previous suggestion of blocking tank vent, and running boat system at mains pressure,

 

Iain

[smileypete]

The header tank idea would work if the water level in the header was below the level of the tank vent, which might be difficult to arrange, depending on water tank layout.

 

Fortunately the tank on my boat is in the bow so quite high up. May also need a check valve in the outlet of the header tank, would also be wise to include an overflow in the header tank.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited December 24, 2014 by smileypete

[magnetman]

 

Depending on circumstances, a water metering valve, bottom left on the first page, or a 'water block':

 

http://www.everyvalve.com/page13.html

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/101.asp

 

There's also various issues to consider including leaks before the valve, excess mains pressure, and frost.

 

Something I'd like to try is have the main tank fed by small header tank and cistern valve, itself fed by a tiny trickle of water from the stand pipe, but that retains the use of the 12V pump.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Thanks. I did another topic a little before this one as I had been considering doing exactly that

 

I'm not really planning to do the direct to mains connection as its just too dodgy but I was interested in the principle. I prefer the boat to be free from umbillicals but as I'm moored beside a tap all winter it seems to make sense to have it automated in some way.

 

What I'll probably do is just have a hozelock timer on it so it runs for x minutes every few days then stops, with the tank overflowing if necessary..

 

Thanks for all the ideas and comments though, its been a good thread

[Maffi]

Ooops

Edited December 24, 2014 by Maffi

[saltysplash]

A lot of the liveaboards in Holland have mains water set up.

 

On my mates old Barge that we brought back from amsterdam, the mains entered the boat via a skin fitting through the hull and connected to the plumbing just past the water pump. a stop cock after the water pump to isolate the water tank and a stopcock on the mains pipe before it joins the plumbing to isolate the mains when away from base.

 

The landside water pipe attatched to the skin fitting with a screw thread.

 

Showers were lovely and powerful and no noisy water pumps to disturb anyone during the night.

 

The mains water was always turned off when no one was on board. It was a routine you got into just like making sure you'd locked the doors and closed the windows.

 

Its an option I would do if i could get permission from my landlord to fit a permanent waterpipe from the tap to the Boat

[BEngo]

I doubt that, even with a double check valve in the tap, any direct connection to a boat would conform to the water bye-laws or whatever they are called these days. Canal water is a category 5 contaminant and 150mm (IIRC) air gap is required in the supply line to conform if there is the slightest risk of back contamination by canal water. Such might occur through a split hose falling in the water.

 

Matty's header tank idea could be made to comply.

 

N

[Tacet]

How about putting a ball valve through the side of the boat with the float in the canal, so that as the boat sinks (due to a burst pipe), it cuts off the supply?

[MtB]

How about putting a ball valve through the side of the boat with the float in the canal, so that as the boat sinks (due to a burst pipe), it cuts off the supply?

 

 

Excellent idea, but you'd need a device to alert you if the ball on the ball float on the valve sprang a leak and sank....

[saltysplash]

I doubt that, even with a double check valve in the tap, any direct connection to a boat would conform to the water bye-laws or whatever they are called these days. Canal water is a category 5 contaminant and 150mm (IIRC) air gap is required in the supply line to conform if there is the slightest risk of back contamination by canal water. Such might occur through a split hose falling in the water.

 

Matty's header tank idea could be made to comply.

 

N

Yet peoples hoses often fall in the water or are even partially draped in the water when filling up tanks

[magnetman]

Thats an idea Tacet

 

yes Saltysplash, I assumed a lot of the bigger barges do this

 

teeing in just after the pump. Good.

I would only want mains pressure for shower and bath so perhaps could use a dedicated hot water tank and just run the mains water through it to the shower. With a normally closed solenoid valve which is turned on when the shower is in use

That'd be quite good and a lot safer than exposing all of the (18 year old Hep20 hidden behind the lining ) plumbing to mains water pressure..

[DaveP]

Put boat on hardstanding, then connect to mains?

 

Instead of bringing the supply in through the front of the boat (which is presumably where the main tank is) bring it in through the rear and have a float valve connected to a in-line solenoid valve (set fail-safe so float down powers valve to open - so either lack of power or float rise cuts power and closes valve).

 

[Presumably any method needs to bypass the main water tank - or seal the breather on the tank]

[magnetman]

Put boat on hardstanding, then connect to mains?

 

Instead of bringing the supply in through the front of the boat (which is presumably where the main tank is) bring it in through the rear and have a float valve connected to a in-line solenoid valve (set fail-safe so float down powers valve to open - so either lack of power or float rise cuts power and closes valve).

 

[Presumably any method needs to bypass the main water tank - or seal the breather on the tank]

First sentence

[ditchcrawler]

I doubt that, even with a double check valve in the tap, any direct connection to a boat would conform to the water bye-laws or whatever they are called these days. Canal water is a category 5 contaminant and 150mm (IIRC) air gap is required in the supply line to conform if there is the slightest risk of back contamination by canal water. Such might occur through a split hose falling in the water.

 

Matty's header tank idea could be made to comply.

 

N

Would you not get that from the sink outlets to the canal water level

[Phil Ambrose]

Lots of wonderful ideas but the kit already exists and has done so for a number of years.

Phil

[blackrose]

I'd say that anyone who's fortunate enough not to need to move their boat to get water because their mooring has its own water point, but who still feels it's a chore to top up their water tank weekly, should perhaps be starting to think about moving back onto land.

 

Lets face it, if you have shore power and your own water point then you're pretty much already living in a floating flat while at the mooring, So there's really no need to devise systems to make shore services even more convenient, especially if these systems have the potential to sink your boat!

Edited December 26, 2014 by blackrose

[Phil Ambrose]

Certain amount of truth in what Blackrose says,however as I have already pointed out the kit is readily available which requires nothing other than a skin fitting. The hose just plugs onto it via a normal hose plug as you would fit a hose to a standpipe tap. Though I did go belt and braces for added security and backed up the pressure reducing valve on the kit by adding an additional pressure reducing valve in the boat. All the solutions offered all have merit but also a touch of Heath Robinson about them.

Phil

[Robbo]

Certain amount of truth in what Blackrose says,however as I have already pointed out the kit is readily available which requires nothing other than a skin fitting. The hose just plugs onto it via a normal hose plug as you would fit a hose to a standpipe tap. Though I did go belt and braces for added security and backed up the pressure reducing valve on the kit by adding an additional pressure reducing valve in the boat. All the solutions offered all have merit but also a touch of Heath Robinson about them.

Phil

Got any links fir the skin fitting?

[Phil Ambrose]

Have a look on Plastimo website.

Phil

[magnetman]

I'd say that anyone who's fortunate enough not to need to move their boat to get water because their mooring has its own water point, but who still feels it's a chore to top up their water tank weekly, should perhaps be starting to think about moving back onto land.

 

Lets face it, if you have shore power and your own water point then you're pretty much already living in a floating flat while at the mooring, So there's really no need to devise systems to make shore services even more convenient, especially if these systems have the potential to sink your boat!

Yes

 

Quite agree, simply a humble discussion topic not something I am desperate to do, although a lot of people on boats do it..

Its not about the 'chore' of filling the tank but never mind.

[Paul C]

Have a look on Plastimo website.

Phil

 

Can you be a bit more specific? Plastimo's website has a lot of stuff on it!

[John Williamson 1955]

I knew you could still get them:-

 

http://www.basepump.com/products/waterblock/

 

Lets an adjustable amount through, then closes the valve. It resets itself whenever flow stops, so you can use up to, say, 50 gallons at a time as long as you turn the tap off in time, but when you get even a slow leak, the maximum amount of water that will enter the boat is the preset limit.

Edited December 26, 2014 by John Williamson 1955