Paint pimpleing

[Ray T]

Went to the boat today and was presented with the left hand half of the slide looking like this:

 

20141201_123700

 

20141201_123838

 

20141201_124530

 

The slide was ok when I last visited the boat 10 days ago.

 

It looks as if moisture has got beneath the lacquer coating and lifting it. Each of the blotches is raised. The boat was professionally painted in 2010. The slide has been polished twice a year with Craftmaster carnauba polish. The slide has also suffered worse winters than we have had so far with no ill effects.

 

I am hoping that I will be able just to smooth it down with fine wet and dry and re lacquer, not when the weather is damp or cold though. I feel the risk I run leaving it 'till spring is that the slide will get worse.

 

Any ideas of cause and effect or action to repair the damage?

 

Thank you.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ray T

[ditchcrawler]

Join the club. I bet you left the boat out in the rain. O and it did freeze the other night, you didn't get ice on it did you. Am I cynical, you bet I am after a 6 grand paint job.

 

How old is you paint job?

[ChimneyChain]

Join the club. I bet you left the boat out in the rain. O and it did freeze the other night, you didn't get ice on it did you. Am I cynical, you bet I am after a 6 grand paint job.

 

How old is you paint job?

You paid 6 grand to have your boat painted...... Jesus.

 

Darren

[Ray T]

Join the club. I bet you left the boat out in the rain. O and it did freeze the other night, you didn't get ice on it did you. Am I cynical, you bet I am after a 6 grand paint job.

 

How old is you paint job?

 

 

Paint job is 5 years old. Yes I believe there had been one rainy night followed by frost / ice since I last visited.

 

I should have looked at other boats. As I mentioned it is only one half of the slide. the half towards the North as the boat is moored roughly east - west, bow pointing to the east.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ray T

[Keeping Up]

You paid 6 grand to have your boat painted...... Jesus.

Darren

That's about average for a good professional paint job.

[frangar]

6 grand is not a bad price....I've recently heard up to £10k.....I did wince a bit...well a lot tbh.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

Paint job is 5 years old. Yes I believe there had been one rainy night followed by frost / ice since I last visited.

 

I should have looked at other boats. As I mentioned it is only one half of the slide. the half towards the North as the boat is moored roughly east - west, bow pointing to the east.

I would suggest you were lucky then

[mark99]

I would suggest you were lucky then

 

 

Can you be precise in what you are saying, I'm having trouble understanding it (possibly being a bit thick). Are you saying it's ice bumps?

 

On Saturday I was out fiddling late at night in the dark with the aerial and I happened to feel a load of bumps over the paintwork. In the morning I checked and noticed loads of microblisters which you can only see if you look real close. I wish I took photo cos now away from boat.

 

My boat was painted three years ago and has been waxed twice per year Carnuba wax. I was under the impression microblisters showed immediately after painting........... perhaps they take time. Perhaps it's the wax.

 

Ray - what brand of paint was it?

Edited December 1, 2014 by mark99

[Ray T]

 

 

Can you be precise in what you are saying, I'm having trouble understanding it (possibly being a bit thick). Are you saying it's ice bumps?

 

On Saturday I was out fiddling late at night in the dark with the aerial and I happened to feel a load of bumps over the paintwork. In the morning I checked and noticed loads of microblisters which you can only see if you look real close. I wish I took photo cos now away from boat.

 

My boat was painted three years ago and has been waxed twice per year Carnuba wax. I was under the impression microblisters showed immediately after painting........... perhaps they take time. Perhaps it's the wax.

 

Mark, this is exactly what has happened to our boat. I have tried some research and not found any answers - yet. With polished surfaces water forms beads on flat surfaces. I think what has happened is the beads have frozen and affected the lacquer surface, not sure why yet. My polishing regime has been similar to yours and this is the first occurrence in 5 years of having the boat repainted.

 

This is why it beads: http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/081094.html

 

Here as well: http://www.ehow.co.uk/facts_6790315_water-beads-silicone-car-polish.html

 

 

I will be going to the boat again later this week and will look at other boats in the marina.

 

I am hoping one of the paint guru's on the forum will come up with a not too drastic solution.

 

No idea what make paint but in my case it is the lacquer which has been affected.

 

What has happened to my boat has happened in the last 10 days, not taken years so this is why I think it is ice damage.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ray T

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

Can you be precise in what you are saying, I'm having trouble understanding it (possibly being a bit thick). Are you saying it's ice bumps?

 

On Saturday I was out fiddling late at night in the dark with the aerial and I happened to feel a load of bumps over the paintwork. In the morning I checked and noticed loads of microblisters which you can only see if you look real close. I wish I took photo cos now away from boat.

 

My boat was painted three years ago and has been waxed twice per year Carnuba wax. I was under the impression microblisters showed immediately after painting........... perhaps they take time. Perhaps it's the wax.

 

Ray - what brand of paint was it?

I think mine was between 18 months and 2 years before you could feel the pimples on the flat horizontal serfaces, it was probably a couple of years later when it started looking like the photos above.

[mark99]

 

Mark, this is exactly what has happened to our boat. I have tried some research and not found any answers - yet. With polished surfaces water forms beads on flat surfaces. I think what has happened is the beads have frozen and affected the lacquer surface, not sure why yet. My polishing regime has been similar to yours and this is the first occurrence in 5 years of having the boat repainted.

 

 

 

 

I was too wondering about the wax - it does cause beads and also,I wonder if it seals in moisture after all, I wash boat, rinse it, leather the boat down then put on wax - the boat surface is never fully "dry" before waxing. After all you are meant to clear snow off boat to prevent trapping moisture and not coil ropes and leave on roof for same reason.

 

Possibly better off just washing a boat and not waxing it.

 

Who knows.

 

Perhaps I'll use smooth Hammerite next time! all the stuff I coat with that in the garden is perfect.

 

How come cars don't have this issue? (I assume correct, controlled application conditions).

Edited December 1, 2014 by mark99

[bizzard]

Beads of water on a polished, painted surface can also act as tiny magnifying lenses which can magnify the sun and cause burn spots on the paintwork.

[Neil2]

 

 

...................How come cars don't have this issue? (I assume correct, controlled application conditions).

There was a time when cars did - I had a yellow Ford Escort many years ago that used to display bubbles in the paintwork when it was really hot, they would go down again when it was cool. Car owners would put up with all manner of faults during the 1970's that simply would not be tolerated today.

[Neil Smith]

Micro blistering normally happens when the boat is slightly damp when painted and the moisture gradually pushes the paint upwards to the surface, the only real cure is to take it back to bare metal again. saying that I have a mk 2 jag that was taken to bare metal and sprayed 20 years ago and a few blisters appeared a year later but have not got any worse over the years so if you can live with it leave well alone and don't flat off.

 

Neil

[matty40s]

I am looking again, is it just the thick waxy coating that is blistering, or the actual top coat of enamel?.

When you say laquer, is this something you did subsequent to paint job, or was this on top of the final enamel topcoat?.

If it;s the laquer, probably best leaving as is until it warms up in the spring, as anything you do in December is likely to be a short lived fix.

[Texasboater]

 

 

I was too wondering about the wax - it does cause beads and also,I wonder if it seals in moisture after all, I wash boat, rinse it, leather the boat down then put on wax - the boat surface is never fully "dry" before waxing. After all you are meant to clear snow off boat to prevent trapping moisture and not coil ropes and leave on roof for same reason.

 

Possibly better off just washing a boat and not waxing it.

 

Who knows.

 

Perhaps I'll use smooth Hammerite next time! all the stuff I coat with that in the garden is perfect.

 

How come cars don't have this issue? (I assume correct, controlled application conditions).

Cars get baked?

[Leo No2]

I had my boat painted 2 and a half years ago so it is out of any 'guarantee'. It is in for the cabin top to be painted again (taken out of the water yesterday). The cabin top erupted down both sides (like a 17-year-old with acne) over the summer. No amount of contacting the previous painter has borne fruit and sueing him is, IMHO, out of the question because, even if I win, he won't have the necessaries to pay up so it would be a piric victory. Those who have looked at it have suggested moisture entrapment in the metal. It was painted in a poly tunnel in hot weather and the suspicion is that it was painted when, as Mark99 points out, the dew point and temperature were probably quite close - temperature and dew point being equal means fog! Also, in my case, I think the amount of paint used was considerably less than agreed. The cabin sides remain very good.

 

Not wishing to raise a political issue but I do think, from what I have understood from those with experience in the trade, is that the content of modern paint, dictated by the EU, has a lot to contribute to the issues being experienced.

 

It is interesting that Ray T has problems with is cabin top as do I - I do regard the cabin top as a 'working' part of the boat although I don't walk on it unless absolutely necessary but it does come in for a lot more 'abuse' than other parts of the boat especially from the elements.

 

I have taken the view that, within reason, what it costs to fix the issue I have, is worth the expense as it protects the investment I have in it. Should it have lasted longer, of course it should, but sometimes things that 'should' don't always happen.

 

I understand Dave Moore, of this parish, may have a chance to look at it in the next few days and, if so, I would value his comments on what he sees.

[Ray T]

I am looking again, is it just the thick waxy coating that is blistering, or the actual top coat of enamel?.

When you say laquer, is this something you did subsequent to paint job, or was this on top of the final enamel topcoat?.

If it;s the laquer, probably best leaving as is until it warms up in the spring, as anything you do in December is likely to be a short lived fix.

 

Matty, the lacquer coat was applied by the dock who did the painting. I had the cabin sides and slide lacquered but not the roof, the roof is unaffected. Moisture appears to have got beneath the lacquer coating via the raised pimples as if the lacquer has been pulled up, stretched and then ruptured.

 

The interesting part is it is only the north facing half of the slide which is affected, along the fore aft line of the boat, almost as if the sun did not heat up that side and melt the ice droplets.

 

The vertical edges of the slide are unaffected, only the horizontal surface affected where the water droplets sat and then were frozen.

 

My main concern is that there is now water trapped between the lacquer and the top coat of paint and any further frost / ice may damage the paint coats. The slide was also covered in a layer of black dust. Having read some car forums this dust, if corrosive, can get trapped in the water droplets and corrode the surface.

 

Kathryn, my paint has only shown damage in the last 10 days, the paint having been on for five years now, so I have discounted any reaction coming from the base layers of paint.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Ray T

[Leo No2]

The slide was also covered in a layer of black dust. Having read some car forums this dust, if corrosive, can get trapped in the water droplets and corrode the surface.

I have often wondered if boats in the marinas close to the west coast mainline ever suffer from damage from the brake dust from the inter-city trains? With the west coast mainline running to the west of the marina I am in (Blisworth) and the prevailing wind being westerly there's an opportunity for brake dust to make its way onto the boats but I am uninformed enough not to know if the area around Blisworth is a braking area and if the EU approved brake pads they may have on trains are 'toxic'.

[David Schweizer]

Ray, my first reaction is to contact the painter and seek his advice, he may have come across that problem before, and may have a solution even if you have to pay for it. I also have a small problem with the crimson lake on the top of one hand rail on our boat, tghe paint appearts to be shrinking, with small cracks appearing in a few places. I spoke to John Sanderson (who painted the boat) and he explained the probable reason, which is mainly down to the amount of pigment in the paint, and suggested how I could rectify it myself. He also explained that the problem will probably recurr because of the effect of sunlight on that particular colour.

 

As far as smoothing down is concerned, John advised me not to use wet and dry paper because it introduces mouisture into the pain which may cause more problems in the future if used wet, and clogs to easily if used dry. He recommanded Production Paper P500 which is what they use in the trade, it is almost impossible to buy in shops but can be bought on line. I got some from these people who are near you, based in Nuneaton :- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261594579333?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Edited December 2, 2014 by David Schweizer

[bizzard]

Any trade auto refinishing shop like Morrelli will sell all grades of production paper in sheet form and disc. I buy the stick on discs for my orbital buzzer. Although Velcro or hook and eye is more usual these days.

[David Schweizer]

Any trade auto refinishing shop like Morrelli will sell all grades of production paper in sheet form and disc. I buy the stick on discs for my orbital buzzer. Although Velcro or hook and eye is more usual these days.

 

A link would be useful, a quick google search did not find them.

 

I actually tried all the trade outlets in this area and none of them stocked it, which is why i went through eBay. There used to be three auto finishing shops near me where i used to get small supplies, but they have all closed in the last few years.

Edited December 2, 2014 by David Schweizer

[LEO]

 

Not wishing to raise a political issue but I do think, from what I have understood from those with experience in the trade, is that the content of modern paint, dictated by the EU, has a lot to contribute to the issues being experienced.

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I have come to the conclusion that modern paint is the root of the problem. A boat can be painted in perfect conditions (under cover, well ventilated and mid summer) and still have problems, even with a bare metal re-paint.

 

I have completely polished my boat this year (in good dry conditions) with AutoGlym products, finishing it with Autoglym wax (which contained some Carnuba wax)., it will be interesting to see it problems occur.

 

In most cases it seems that the roof or flat areas have the blistering problem. I do not store anything on my roof and do not allow it to be used as a walkway, it has a good curve to allow for speedy run off of water and has a handrail as opposed to a gutter.

 

The sides if my boat were finished with Craftmaster Graphite grey and are perfect, as are the front and rear surfaces, but the roof has a small patch of minor blistering - this could be a small area of residual silicone.

 

I don't think it's the painter's fault - but as stated earlier, modern paint has 'no guts', as the problem is becoming widespread on repainted narrowboats.

 

Googling brought up some interesting information on micro blistering.

 

L.

[ditchcrawler]

I had my boat painted 2 and a half years ago so it is out of any 'guarantee'. It is in for the cabin top to be painted again (taken out of the water yesterday). The cabin top erupted down both sides (like a 17-year-old with acne) over the summer. No amount of contacting the previous painter has borne fruit and sueing him is, IMHO, out of the question because, even if I win, he won't have the necessaries to pay up so it would be a piric victory. Those who have looked at it have suggested moisture entrapment in the metal. It was painted in a poly tunnel in hot weather and the suspicion is that it was painted when, as Mark99 points out, the dew point and temperature were probably quite close - temperature and dew point being equal means fog! Also, in my case, I think the amount of paint used was considerably less than agreed. The cabin sides remain very good.

 

Not wishing to raise a political issue but I do think, from what I have understood from those with experience in the trade, is that the content of modern paint, dictated by the EU, has a lot to contribute to the issues being experienced.

 

It is interesting that Ray T has problems with is cabin top as do I - I do regard the cabin top as a 'working' part of the boat although I don't walk on it unless absolutely necessary but it does come in for a lot more 'abuse' than other parts of the boat especially from the elements.

 

I have taken the view that, within reason, what it costs to fix the issue I have, is worth the expense as it protects the investment I have in it. Should it have lasted longer, of course it should, but sometimes things that 'should' don't always happen.

 

I understand Dave Moore, of this parish, may have a chance to look at it in the next few days and, if so, I would value his comments on what he sees.

Sounds just like mine. most visible on the slide, cants, gas locker lid. One point of note was that the slide was not on the boat when it was painted.

[bizzard]

 

A link would be useful, a quick google search did not find them.

 

I actually tried all the trade outlets in this area and none of them stocked it, which is why i went through eBay. There used to be three auto finishing shops near me where i used to get small supplies, but they have all closed in the last few years.

It's the Morelli group. 020 8351 5171. enquiries@morelli.co.uk. They were the original suppliers of Valantines paint including the old Valflash and Valspar.