Introduction and a few questions.

[Peter Knowles]

Hello from Nova Scotia Canada,

 

My name is Peter Knowles and I'm intent on coming to the UK to cruise continuously.

I was born in London but spent most of my life in Canada.

Two years divorced with two girls in university.

Sold everything and have been travelling the US and Canada in a vintage Land Rover and Airstream.

 

The blog is,... blog.travelswithgeordie.com a bit out of date.

 

OK, with that out of the way I'll be landing in Britain around the first of December and will immediately, or as immediately as possible buy a boat to live on. A cheap boat, +- 10,000 GBP

I realize this is not an ideal time of year to start the lifestyle but I'm very hardy and capable.

I also realize my budget is small but I actually prefer a project.

 

Something like,...

http://motorboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=371294

 

I'm an avid boater, power and sail, inland and offshore.

I can handle just about any repair work, but am not looking to be hauling and sistering ribs and replanking right off.

 

I realize most of you lot are narrow boaters but I see enough regular owners that I feel comfortable to drop my hook here and look for guidance.

 

I've been dreaming of this for years.

Apollo Duck is my home page!

 

Eventually I'd like to cruise the continent as well.

I travel everywhere with my dog Geordie.

I love how England loves dogs.

 

As a baseline, my ideal boat would be a Broom 30.

But I can't afford one.

 

 

The boat above is very attractive in my eyes, both aesthetically and functionally.

The obvious concerns are,..

 

- Broken/ rotten ribs

- Rotten planking

- Planking fastening failure

- Keel, garboard rot

- Engines, gearboxes

 

Just about anything else I can cope with, electrical, plumbing etc is of little concern.

I see ratty decks and water damage below, but even that doesn't discourage me.

 

Now the questions,...

 

- What am I missing that could be drastic?

- Can I trust the owners two year old survey?

- I don't quite understand the UK boat tax, it says inc. does that mean the tax is already paid?

- My baseline test for diesels is to evaluate a start from cold, then open oil filler to asses blowby.

Is this relevant for these engines?

 

 

I've requested more info and pictures, I'm sure to have more question.

Especially about continuous cruising but I'll keep reading in the meantime.

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Peter

 

 

 

[Ray T]

Welcome, nice boat. I'd check on the price though.

 

Price, Contact & Location Status: Available Price: GBP 9,995 |

 

last survey 2 years ago with no issues. valued at £20,000. this boat is a true classic in very sound condition. fully serviceable and built to last. weight 11 tonne. loads of history and photos available. ships registered, true classic. price to sell. for more info phone mark, 07814083656

£14,995

Edited October 31, 2014 by Ray T

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya, & Welcome to the Forum.

 

As you know, That type of boat wouldn't be (most) canal friendly, But in my view perfect for Estuaries, and Coastal Hops, with an interesting River exploration thrown in for a change or even to use as a bolt hole when required !, Which is exactly what I do, & have done quite happily as a Continuous Cruiser (or at least my interpretation of CCr) for years now, so there would be plenty of cruising grounds for you to play in.

I think you should spend your first month or so hireing a camper, or even buying a van put a bed roll in the back and actually travel around the boat yards,marinas Looking etc so you don't 'Panic buy'.

Good luck

Edited October 31, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Neil2]

Hello Peter and a warm welcome to CWDF.

 

I'd echo what Paul says about trawling the boat yards. I've never seen a boat advertised under £25,000 that was anywhere near its description on AD, and if this is your main source of potential buys you will need a very high disappointment threshold. The boat in question is a good example, nothing at all said about its negative points which will be many, always a bad sign. I speak from bitter experience.

 

Also, please consider that many of the UK's most interesting waterways are restricted to narrow beam craft. I would have a wide beam boat in a heartbeat but the reason narrowboats are so ubiquitous over here is they are so versatile within the context of the UK. If you think you can manage in a boat under 40 foot there are serious bargains to be had as "entry level" length is creeping up all the time.

 

One more thing - lots of dog lovers on this forum but if you think the country as a whole is dog friendly try to find a pub/cafe/shop that will allow you to bring your dog in, try to find a beach you can walk your dog on in the summer and have a look round the overflowing dog sanctuaries some of which closed their doors when the recession hit. Not being cynical, just realistic.

The waterways community is very different of course.

 

 

 

 

[John V]

Hi Peter welcome to the forum, I would echo the previous posts. It is well worth taking note of Paul's(Paul's Nulife) comments, as his cruising is similar to the way you are describing you would like to go.

There are a lot of boats on sale at the moment but many of them are clunkers (aren't they always)

A lot never get advertised on sites and sit around in yards with a fading handwritten notice stuck to them. It can be a very time consuming business tracking down the right boat........Good luck, John

Edited October 31, 2014 by John V

[Paul C]

 

A cheap boat, +- 10,000 GBP

I realize this is not an ideal time of year to start the lifestyle but I'm very hardy and capable.

I also realize my budget is small but I actually prefer a project.

 

 

 

Now the questions,...

 

- What am I missing that could be drastic?

- Can I trust the owners two year old survey?

- I don't quite understand the UK boat tax, it says inc. does that mean the tax is already paid?

- My baseline test for diesels is to evaluate a start from cold, then open oil filler to asses blowby.

Is this relevant for these engines?

 

 

r

 

 

 

 

Boats are £10000 because they are projects. ie they need work. Some work is cheap on parts and labour intensive; some work is simple but needs parts replacing, which cost money (possibly a lot of money). You could flap around for ages trying to refurb/recondition something knackered and get nowhere, and it would still need replacing. So you'll need a budget of several £££ as well as the purchase price.

 

Answers:

 

A1: at £10k, possibly £20k of work required on a boat to make it usable.

A2: no

A3: VAT is likely to be paid already on the kinds of boats you're looking at. Apolloduck has it as a field because it lists all types of boats including commercial vessels etc.

A4: That's a test but a crude test, all told is pretty meaningless.

[Neil2]

That's a good point Paul's making about the cost of a project. At the risk of challenging accepted wisdom, the condition of the hull of a boat might not be your prime concern, especially if you are up to the task of repairing it yourself. But there are things where even forgoing the price of your own labour won't help and I reckon, especially with a twin engine boat, the power unit(s) are the main consideration. A relatively inexpensive oil sample test will go a long way in telling you whether an engine has been looked after and whether it's likely to need major work in the foreseeable future. I have backed out of two purchases based on an oil test, a cheap boat is not cheap if you have to replace the engine.

 

Also, you can't underestimate the cost of replacing fixtures and fittings especially if they are "marine only" items, it's scary how things mount up, I have the receipts to prove it.

[kevinl]

If you google the phone number in the ad you get some interesting things

07814083656

but unfortunately they all seem to have been removed from sale, I think the expression "too good to be true" springs to mind.

Other than that welcome.

K

[Alan de Enfield]

You can sometimes be very lucky - at a tangent but a bit of a story based on budget buys.

 

For his 21st, my Son decided to take a 'few months out' and "do" Australia.

A few days after his arrival he phoned and said he was buying a car and was going to go 'from the bottom, up the West coast and across the top'.

 

I asked the price of this car and was told he had fond it on a notce board in a back-packers hostel and it was Aus$ 150 (one hundred and fifty) Incredulous I asked if he was serious - he was.

 

He had a local garage give it an oil change, check for water/fuel/oil leaks and it was all ok.

Loaded up with water, fuel and some emergency rations he, and a couple of friends set off from Adelaide and headed North on the Coastal route.

 

Anyway - a few weeks later he arrived (having been off roading, stuck in dry ditches, etc etc) at Darwin, put a for-sale notice up in the back-packers hostel and sold it for AUS$150

 

Somtimes God smiles on the adventurous

 

Anyway - if you want to do it - do it but be prepared for the odd problem on the way.

[dmr]

Hello Peter and a warm welcome to CWDF.

 

I'd echo what Paul says about trawling the boat yards. I've never seen a boat advertised under £25,000 that was anywhere near its description on AD, and if this is your main source of potential buys you will need a very high disappointment threshold. The boat in question is a good example, nothing at all said about its negative points which will be many, always a bad sign. I speak from bitter experience.

 

Also, please consider that many of the UK's most interesting waterways are restricted to narrow beam craft. I would have a wide beam boat in a heartbeat but the reason narrowboats are so ubiquitous over here is they are so versatile within the context of the UK. If you think you can manage in a boat under 40 foot there are serious bargains to be had as "entry level" length is creeping up all the time.

 

One more thing - lots of dog lovers on this forum but if you think the country as a whole is dog friendly try to find a pub/cafe/shop that will allow you to bring your dog in, try to find a beach you can walk your dog on in the summer and have a look round the overflowing dog sanctuaries some of which closed their doors when the recession hit. Not being cynical, just realistic.

The waterways community is very different of course.

 

 

 

 

 

Going a bit off topic but I can't resist as its a favourite subject of mine.

Outside of big cities most canalside pubs, and "almost canalside" pubs will take dogs.Those that don't will not get my custom.

Surprisingly the posher the pub the more likely they are to takes dogs and have water and dog treats. Many "eating pubs" will also take dogs though you might have to eat in the pub bit rather than the posh bit (suits me fine).

Do ask in shops, a few shops will take dogs. Almost all hardware shops will.

Currently in Kintbury (K&A) and had a few drinks at the slightly posh Dundas Arms. They do B&B and every room has a bed for the dog and a cabinet for the guns!!!!!

 

............Dave

[David Mack]

Tha same chap has recently advertised for sale:

 

1941 Fleet Air Arm Pinnace Fast Seagoing Motor Boat

Classic 1930s Motor Launch

1929 Gentlemans Launch

 

All at exactly the same price. How likely is that?

 

Whilst I am not really familiar with this type of boat, £10k looks very cheap for the boat in the OP's link.

 

Draw your own conclusions

[Peter Knowles]

All great points, thanks so much.

 

Very interesting Googling the phone number, I'm usually savvy to that but didn't think of it here.

It looks like this particular boat may be a problem. Also no reply from seller after several emails.

Bummer, I really like the boat.

 

Another option, similar to buying a van is buying a dirt cheap GRP outboard with a minimum cabin and tour the canals and rivers hunting for the right one. Will get pretty chilly.

 

I'd love to be able to cruise the narrow canals, so many of them.

But I'd also like to cross the channel.

I don't expect narrowboats and ocean swell mix well.

 

However if I could find a shortish narrowboat project at the right price, a fit out project is right up my alley.

 

 

Again, thanks all.

 

Best cheers

Peter

 

On dogs is public places.

Anywhere is better than North America,...

[Bod]

http://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/

 

Peter this is a link to a site that has been known to have project boats(!) don't know what they have at present.

(Usual disclaimers, no interests, not a client, buyer or seller etc.)

Gives you an idea of cost verse's condition.

 

Bod

[Alan de Enfield]

http://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/

 

Peter this is a link to a site that has been known to have project boats(!) don't know what they have at present.

(Usual disclaimers, no interests, not a client, buyer or seller etc.)

Gives you an idea of cost verse's condition.

 

Bod

 

But dont be thrown off when instead of saying "project" in the description, they say "move straight aboard, ideal liveaboard,cruise to London, get on the housing ladder and enjoy the London life at a 'penny on the pound'

[Ray T]

 

I'd love to be able to cruise the narrow canals, so many of them.

But I'd also like to cross the channel.

I don't expect narrowboats and ocean swell mix well.

 

However if I could find a shortish narrowboat project at the right price, a fit out project is right up my alley.

 

 

Again, thanks all.

 

Best cheers

Peter

 

On dogs is public places.

Anywhere is better than North America,...

 

Crossing the English Channel in a narrowboat is not really on, unless you modify the boat or can guarantee a flat calm for 7-8 hours. Unlikely in the Channel.

 

Also the Straits of Dover (the narrowest part of The English Channel) is one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world.

Narrow boats often have engine air vents and other orifices about 12 - 18" above the waterline, with the swell that some ocean going vessels create even on a flat calm, this swell could easily cause a NB to pitch and rock so these may let in water unless sealed.

 

Chris Coburn's NB Progress has sailed the briney several times but as said it is highly modified. http://www.nb-progress.com/

 

Wyvern Shipping also built a sea going NB, Ocean Princess: again highly modified. http://www.canalholidays.co.uk/about-us/ocean-princess-cruise

 

Another, modified: http://www.narrowdog.com/frenchpictures.htm

 

This one managed to cross The Atlantic, once more not your normal narrow boat. http://iwn.iwai.ie/v29i2/ifrances.PDF

 

If you wish to cross the Channel probably better doing it in a vessel constructed for the purpose.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Ray T

[MtB]

There has been at least one long thread on here discussing someone's desire to find a boat suitable for both narrow canals and coastal hopping.

 

The consensus emerged that no such boat existed IIRC.

 

MtB

[Peter Knowles]

Perhaps I misled.

I would not consider taking a narrow boat out to sea.

 

I've been looking at some very cheap, tiny cruisers.

Not altogether comfortable but capable of all the inland waterways while I discover what it is I should do.

 

Thanks again.

[Bee]

Just a suggestion, to widen the search its worth looking at botentekoop, marktplaats etc, these are dutch sites, virtually everything is steel or grp, there are project boats and 'cascos' (unfitted shells) and I think that the cheaper boats are cheaper than in the UK, the same caution applies, plenty of awful old stuff around but there is no Boat Safety Scheme across the channel to spend money on. Good Luck

[Arthur Marshall]

If you wander round almost every linear mooring on the canal you'll find a couple of boats for sale. Most of the other moorers on the site know the boat's history well enough to make sure you're not being sold a dud, or at least know what's wrong with it. Probaby cheaper than going to a broker or a marina, too.

[Neil2]

If I was single and had a budget of £10,000 I'd be looking for a 32 foot "Highbridge" with an outboard. The Highbridge was an attempt to create a canal friendly grp cruiser, so it can cope with the general rough and tumble of lock work etc whilst retaining the advantages of grp ie it doesn't rust. They often come with a solid fuel stove which makes them very usable all year round and visually they have a certain charm as well. The big advantage of an o/b powered boat is that in the event it packs up you can keep moving with a secondhand unit costing hundreds rather then the thousands a diesel would cost. The main disadvantage is the problem of finding petrol on the uk waterways.

[David Mack]

Another option, similar to buying a van is buying a dirt cheap GRP outboard with a minimum cabin and tour the canals and rivers hunting for the right one. Will get pretty chilly.

Well here's a pretty cheap GRP with an inboard:

 

http://www.alanpease.co.uk/boats/swallow.htm

[Peter Knowles]

David,

 

Thanks, I've seen that listing.

Petrol sterndrive is unappealing.

 

But there's lots of boats like this out there.

 

Cheers

[Peter Knowles]

Now this looks interesting,...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-BROADS-BOAT-28FT-CLASSIC-CRAFT-SHINING-DAWN-/331338626236?pt=UK_Power_Boats&hash=item4d255234bc

 

Haven't scrutinized too much or snooped the seller yet.

 

Would love opinions,...

 

It also brings up the question.

Being a Broads boat, Is it awkward to license it on the Thames?

Would the run down to the Thames estuary be insane in winter?

Perhaps I'd just stay put on the Broads till spring.

 

Only boated on the broads one as a kid. Loved it especially after reading Arthur Ransome a few dozen times....

 

Peter

[Phil Ambrose]

Now this looks interesting,...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-BROADS-BOAT-28FT-CLASSIC-CRAFT-SHINING-DAWN-/331338626236?pt=UK_Power_Boats&hash=item4d255234bc

 

Haven't scrutinized too much or snooped the seller yet.

 

Would love opinions,...

 

It also brings up the question.

Being a Broads boat, Is it awkward to license it on the Thames?

Would the run down to the Thames estuary be insane in winter?

Perhaps I'd just stay put on the Broads till spring.

 

Only boated on the broads one as a kid. Loved it especially after reading Arthur Ransome a few dozen times....

 

Peter

You can license any boat on any water, but remember the Broads do have a maximum lenght restriction. Nothing wrong with Broads boats (we lived on the Broads in one for 10 years)

Phil

[Jim Riley]

What you need is a dawncraft rover or Highbridge crusader 32 or a highbridge 27, or maybe one of the 27/30 ft centre cockpit dawncraft, the highbridge and rover both have a small bow well. 10k should get you summat you can sail away. They are narrowboat style cruisers, 6'10" beam so can go anywhere, which a broads cruiser couldn't, too fat in the beam. Check out the dawncraft forum, http://dawncraftowners.com

There's also info on other types of grp tupperware jellymoulds. There's also a Norman forum.

 

apolloduck.... https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CFAQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apolloduck.co.uk%2Ffeature.phtml%3Fid%3D332943&ei=tKNUVKGkDeae7gaGxYCQCw&usg=AFQjCNFYGtOCtL3rtOHt5PEc5QR9brQgcg&sig2=tS4tNG9CM9x8cXhrB9DWiA

Edited November 1, 2014 by Jim Riley