Canals and alcohol

[PaulG]

 

Google cannabis links to mental health and read some of the links to mental health charities.

 

If one person is saying categorically that something is completely safe (which must make it about the only thing in the known universe that is) and someone else is saying "hey I've got evidence that this is a bit dodgy" you would be a blxxdy fool to totally accept the first

 

edit to catch up...I'm not speaking for or against use what I have been saying all along is that to claim something is totally safe when there is considerable evidence to show that it is not....is plainly batty

I am not a cannabis user so I have no "axe to grind".

The trouble is that the evidence is much less clear than you are lead to believe.

 

For example, from the New Scientist website:

 

The headline reads "Cannabis link to mental illness strengthened".

So you would imagine that it is a "cut and dried" case. Cannabis makes you nuts.

 

But if you take the trouble to read right to the bottom, you will read that researchers at King's College London say "The overall weight of evidence is that occasional use of cannabis has few harmful effects overall."

 

So that begs the question - how much is occasional use? Of course the article does not say.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3098-cannabis-link-to-mental-illness-strengthened.html

[Paul G2]

 

Google cannabis links to mental health and read some of the links to mental health charities.

 

If one person is saying categorically that something is completely safe (which must make it about the only thing in the known universe that is) and someone else is saying "hey I've got evidence that this is a bit dodgy" you would be a blxxdy fool to totally accept the first

 

edit to catch up...I'm not speaking for or against use. What I have been saying all along is that to claim something is totally safe, when there is considerable evidence to show that it is not....is plainly batty

 

edit to add some punctuation

 

Now you are putting words in my mouth to try to justify your intransigence. I made a statement comparing cannabis to alcohol and said, in that context, that cannabis is harmless.

 

You turned that around to me saying it is totally safe. Don't be a moron, you are arguing with your own words, not mine!

 

And, anyway, I'm still waiting on even the slightest hint of that considerable evidence you are talking about.

[RLWP]

Thanks Paul, that helps

 

Richard

[Paul G2]

 

Google cannabis links to mental health and read some of the links to mental health charities.

 

 

Better yet, instead of searching links to organizations that make money off drug rehab, here's a link to hundreds of real scientific studies that show the beneficial uses of marijuana in treating mental health problems.

 

http://ks392457.kimsufi.com/stuff/grannylist2013.pdf

 

Dude, you cannot win this debate. I've had it too many times with people much better prepared than you are. The evidence, the facts, the truth are all on my side. Instead of continuing to make ignorant remarks, PLEASE, educate yourself, if not for your own edification, then perhaps to put an end to bloodshed that this inane war on drugs is causing.

 

"Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

 

We tried prohibition with alcohol back in the 1920's. It didn't work then, it only led to increased crime and violence. Now we have drug prohibition with the same affects. We've been there and done that and now prohibition has failed twice and we need to end it, now!

[John V]

 

But we haven't seen any evidence (on this thread) that cannabis is 'a bit dodgy'

 

 

Not sure why you cited post 85 as 'evidence' of cannabis mortality because if you bother to read the key you'll see that direct mortality is zero for cannabis according to the table in post 85

 

you need to educate yourself dude

 

 

check the other sections...dude Read the whole thread before you jump in

[JDR]

Drug use should be treated as a medical issue with an emphasis on education and harm reduction.In the US somewhere in the region of 50% of the Federal Prison population were convicted on drugs related charges.

 

Portugal decriminalised drug use over ten years ago as an attempt to combat spiralling levels of HIV infection from intravenous drug use and the experiment has worked, infection rates have dropped dramatically.

[John V]

Better yet, instead of searching links to organizations that make money off drug rehab, here's a link to hundreds of real scientific studies that show the beneficial uses of marijuana in treating mental health problems.

 

http://ks392457.kimsufi.com/stuff/grannylist2013.pdf

 

Dude, you cannot win this debate. I've had it too many times with people much better prepared than you are. The evidence, the facts, the truth are all on my side. Instead of continuing to make ignorant remarks, PLEASE, educate yourself, if not for your own edification, then perhaps to put an end to bloodshed that this inane war on drugs is causing.

 

"Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

 

We tried prohibition with alcohol back in the 1920's. It didn't work then, it only led to increased crime and violence. Now we have drug prohibition with the same affects. We've been there and done that and now prohibition has failed twice and we need to end it, now!

 

 

try reading what is written before you mouth off....also you had better read what YOU have written in #67 you state categorically that cannabis is safe. no ifs buts or in moderations...you have also failed to note that not once have I said anything about legality nor choice, nor have I suggestedthat anyone should not do as they choose. All I have done is point out that there is some evidence that suggests a link to mental illness. one wonders about paranoia

[GUMPY]

 

Define dope?

 

 

Cannabis

or anything else that contains THC.

 

Whilst you may be correct about deaths due to overdose of THC the psycotic damage done by it is well known. As I said I have two family members that have been damaged by it directly one luckily is not permanent.

 

You are talking like an evangalist who is promoting his drug of choice hence my direct question that so far you have avoided

[Delta9]

the psycotic damage done by it is well known.

 

Then you won't have a problem linking to some evidence...

[LoneWolf]

 

 

check the other sections...dude Read the whole thread before you jump in

 

there you go making more assumptions that aren't true - i have read the whole thread. There was no evidence so i'm still waiting for you to provide it

 

Not sure what you mean my 'other sections'

 

you're sounding a bit addled yourself now

[Paul G2]

Cannabis

or anything else that contains THC.

 

Whilst you may be correct about deaths due to overdose of THC the psycotic damage done by it is well known. As I said I have two family members that have been damaged by it directly one luckily is not permanent.

 

You are talking like an evangalist who is promoting his drug of choice hence my direct question that so far you have avoided

 

I freely admit to smoking marijuana. Why would I deny it? there is absolutely nothing wrong with smoking marijuana.

 

That you have family members who may be predisposed to mental illness is not proof that marijuana is harmful.

 

How have I promoted marijuana use? Have I encouraged anyone to use it? Are you so terrified of the truth that you have to make things up?

[W+T]

I dont see a problem with any of the drugs or alcohol or any other pass times we want to do, To the OP, just dont do it,i am sure its the same as if you go to town for a drink, at nihgt there will be folk getting out of there heads on both drink and drugs and also doing them together.

I love to have apint of what ever is on board when cruising, but i can take a few pints and i know my limits, but some dont in all ways of life , not just on the canal,

I have 100l of strawberry cider home brew waiting to be supped if i still had a boat i would be there when ever possible with a few bottles and living the life

 

Its todays ways that alcohol and drugs are the norm for relaxing, if you read as gospal what you see and read you would never go out. Just do what you want aslong as you dont infringe on others your ways when pissed. If you see these folk doing so then walk away and leave them to the bad head the day after and empty pockets.

[Paul G2]

 

 

try reading what is written before you mouth off....also you had better read what YOU have written in #67 you state categorically that cannabis is safe. no ifs buts or in moderations...you have also failed to note that not once have I said anything about legality nor choice, nor have I suggestedthat anyone should not do as they choose. All I have done is point out that there is some evidence that suggests a link to mental illness. one wonders about paranoia

 

John, your rambling, try to focus. LOL Seriously, here's what I said:

 

"Well, since you asked, no one has ever died from cannabis sativa or its by-product, hashish. No one, ever! So, aside from the fact that cannabis is harmless and alcohol in excess can be deadly, I guess there's not much difference - oh, unless you count the fact that potheads don't go ballistic the way drunks sometimes do."

 

Granted, "harmless" is a pretty inclusive word, however, taken in context it is not the "you state categorically that cannabis is safe. no ifs buts or in moderations" statement that you want to make it out to be. Even if it were, it is closer to the truth than anything you have said on the subject.

[John V]

 

there you go making more assumptions that aren't true - i have read the whole thread. There was no evidence so i'm still waiting for you to provide it

 

Not sure what you mean my 'other sections'

 

you're sounding a bit addled yourself now

 

try looking at the bit at the top of the cannabis section marked "drug related mortality" and also notice its damage score is about 3 times higher than LSD (come back Timothy Leary all is forgiven)

[Ray T]

 

A greenie to you for some actual facts. I always find it hard to understand why societies that allow alcohol outlaw other drugs, when alcohol is by far the worst drug of them all. I can understand that a lot of people were brought up on drug war propaganda, but those folks need to shed that burden and look at drugs in realistic terms, not drug war terms.

 

You'll notice that your government may not have money to maintain your canals, but they certainly have hundreds of millions to spend on a failed drug war. It's the same thing here. We spend billions every year on drug enforcement that does absolutely nothing to decrease the availability of drugs.

 

I would love to see that chart with two other inclusions, tobacco and sugar

 

Our canals are now run by C&RT which is a charity. The Govenrment is commited to give the C&RT some money for a limited period but they no longer maintain our canals

 

About time you kept up with todays economic climate and brought yourself up to speed (not the drug).

[carlt]

 

Whilst you may be correct about deaths due to overdose of THC the psycotic damage done by it is well known. As I said I have two family members that have been damaged by it directly one luckily is not permanent.

The general thinking, in the mental health professional circles is that Cannabis does not cause mental issues but can exacerbate existing conditions unlike substances like speed which can cause damage to otherwise healthy brains.

[boathunter]

All drugs would appear to cause some damage. The anomally is that while most are illegal, the one that causes the most damage is state sanctioned and taxed to the hilt.

 

I smoked cannabis for 35 years pretty well non-stop from when I got up to when I retired and TBH I don't think it's done me any harm. I sat in my office (at the bottom of the garden) as a very successful engineering design consultant - I was the best in my field and I know this for a fact as my customer measured design success in quite a complicated way. I was 97% successful, my nearest competitor was 48% successful.

 

However I did not ever smoke skunk. Skunk is a different drug altogether and I do believe causes severe mental health issues, I've seen it with my own eyes amongst my childrens friends. Skunk is an artificially biased drug high in thc which sends you whacko. Natural cannabis strains have a balance of THC and "other stuff" that counteracts it and keeps you from going nuts. A good analogy might be to say natural strains are like real ale and skunk is like over-proof rum. Naturally if you drink over-proof rum all day long it's going to do you more damage than real ale.

 

I believe this is where a lot of the discussion gets confused, with the detractors citing the effects of skunk, while the for votes are talking about some columbian grass.

 

A similar situation exists with alcoholics, where cider drinking tramps look down on wino's who in turn look down on meths drinkers.

 

It's all relative (man), so unless we're talking about the same things there will never be any agreement.

[Paul G2]

 

Our canals are now run by C&RT which is a charity. The Govenrment is commited to give the C&RT some money for a limited period but they no longer maintain our canals

 

About time you kept up with todays economic climate and brought yourself up to speed (not the drug).

Seriously? This is the best you can come up with?

 

Your government gives £XXX to CRT, much of that money for maintenance. How is that inconsistent with what I said?

 

BTW - It's my understanding that not all of the canals have been transferred to CRT, some are still under other authorities. Is this correct?

[Ray T]

Seriously? This is the best you can come up with?

 

Your government gives £XXX to CRT, much of that money for maintenance. How is that inconsistent with what I said?

 

BTW - It's my understanding that not all of the canals have been transferred to CRT, some are still under other authorities. Is this correct?

 

It'll do for me I don't get involved in keyboard semantics. Bye.

[Sir Nibble]

Skunk is a strain of weed bred with normal horticultural techniques at the sensi seedbank in Amsterdam. It is not genetically engineered, chemically enhanced or alien. It is more powerful certainly but the unedifying spectacle of some MPs saying that the little weed they smoked at university (presumably like Bill Clinton they couldn't even do that right) is OK but now Skunk is available YOU mustn't do it oh no.

[kevinl]

For example, the whole "gateway drug" theory is nothing but pure propaganda. There is absolutely no real causative evidence whatsoever that marijuana leads to harder drugs

I'll take issue with this one, I have twice been offered free samples of class A drugs by a dealer (my friend was doing some business with, don't ask) so where quite possibly of itself smoking dope does not cause people to progress to harder drugs the dealers aren't called pushers for nothing.

Possibly smoking dope is no worse than alcohol but the drug culture environment exposed you to people who do try to drag you in.

K

[Delta9]

 

 

However I did not ever smoke skunk. Skunk is a different drug altogether and I do believe causes severe mental health issues, I've seen it with my own eyes amongst my childrens friends. Skunk is an artificially biased drug high in thc which sends you whacko. Natural cannabis strains have a balance of THC and "other stuff" that counteracts it and keeps you from going nuts. A good analogy might be to say natural strains are like real ale and skunk is like over-proof rum. Naturally if you drink over-proof rum all day long it's going to do you more damage than real ale.

 

More bullsh*t propaganda...

[John V]

Skunk is a strain of weed bred with normal horticultural techniques at the sensi seedbank in Amsterdam. It is not genetically engineered, chemically enhanced or alien. It is more powerful certainly but the unedifying spectacle of some MPs saying that the little weed they smoked at university (presumably like Bill Clinton they couldn't even do that right) is OK but now Skunk is available YOU mustn't do it oh no.

 

you mean its like a pint of mild against a pint of grandads parsnip wine...better known as "journey into space" or "Lunatics broth" ?

[Paul G2]

 

It'll do for me I don't get involved in keyboard semantics. Bye.

 

Really? What is this crap then?

 

Ray T, on 14 Apr 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

 

Our canals are now run by C&RT which is a charity. The Govenrment is commited to give the C&RT some money for a limited period but they no longer maintain our canals

 

About time you kept up with todays economic climate and brought yourself up to speed (not the drug).

 

What I said about how your taxes are used was pretty clear in the context I used it. You decided to play keyboard semantics to demean what I said. Then you do it again to seemingly say, "I don't stoop that low."

 

Pretty transparent, really.

 

Now, I'm outta here. This debate is getting redundant and personal and is just going in circles. The only thing it shows is that years of propaganda and misinformation are hard to undo.

[Sir Nibble]

 

you mean its like a pint of mild against a pint of grandads parsnip wine...better known as "journey into space" or "Lunatics broth" ?

No it's like a pint of mild against a glass of single malt.