Canals and alcohol

[Delta9]

I'll take issue with this one, I have twice been offered free samples of class A drugs by a dealer (my friend was doing some business with, don't ask) so where quite possibly of itself smoking dope does not cause people to progress to harder drugs the dealers aren't called pushers for nothing.

Possibly smoking dope is no worse than alcohol but the drug culture environment exposed you to people who do try to drag you in.

K

The problem there is just with the legislation and nothing to do with cannabis itself. If it were legalised you wouldn't need to meet those illegal "pushers"

[Sir Nibble]

I'll take issue with this one, I have twice been offered free samples of class A drugs by a dealer (my friend was doing some business with, don't ask) so where quite possibly of itself smoking dope does not cause people to progress to harder drugs the dealers aren't called pushers for nothing.

Possibly smoking dope is no worse than alcohol but the drug culture environment exposed you to people who do try to drag you in.

K

The gateway drug is tobacco. Ever hear of anyone smoking weed without smoking a cigarette first? Legalise it, then you don't even need to deal with the bloke who wants to sell you something harder. Even, (and this is radical) accept that whatever you do with whatever you buy be it a fast car a bag of weed or a bottle of scotch is up to you and the person who sold it to you does not take responsibility for the consequences, you do.

[Paul G2]

I'll take issue with this one, I have twice been offered free samples of class A drugs by a dealer (my friend was doing some business with, don't ask) so where quite possibly of itself smoking dope does not cause people to progress to harder drugs the dealers aren't called pushers for nothing.

Possibly smoking dope is no worse than alcohol but the drug culture environment exposed you to people who do try to drag you in.

K

 

And the drug culture environment is a product of the war on drugs. It's not the cannabis that was introducing you to harder drugs, it was the environment.

 

Here, I walk into a government regulated and government taxed shop and buy pot. There are no harder drugs, there are no "pushers". There's a glass display case with marijuana in it. You see, it is prohibition that is the gateway, not marijuana.

 

Let me ask you a real simple question, because you seem to be level-headed about this. Who would you rather have in charge of whether or not your kids get drugs, the government or drug dealers?

 

The government, right?

 

The only way that you are ever going to have the government in charge is if you eradicate the black market and the only way to eradicate the black market is to legalize drugs. That may not be what you want to hear, but those are the facts, plain and simple.

[John V]

Sir Nibble...I would take issue with the fast car, you are as likely to kill someone else with that

[boathunter]

More bullsh*t propaganda...

Whatever. I speak from personal experience. Skunk is simply far too strong for me and many of my sons friends who smoke it do bugger all else with their lives. It has been bred to be biased towards one natural ingredient and whatever technique was used to do that is by-the-by. I'm not anti cannabis, as I said I smoked it all day long for the greater part of my life with no ill effect. Perhaps you are too young to have experienced real natural stuff imported from around the world. They're all different, but never did I wake up with a skunk type hangover.

[Jerra]

I don't claim to know anything about drugs, even smoking hasn't attracted me. However the statement that nobody has died from cannabis I found interesting so I googled.

 

The first hit I got was the Daily Wail which lead to the New Scientist who do say death from Cannabis alone has occurred

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25092-cannabis-can-kill-without-the-influence-of-other-drugs.html#.U0wgEKKdHjl.

[carlt]

Sir Nibble...I would take issue with the fast car, you are as likely to kill someone else with that

 

A bit like alcohol then...

[Sir Nibble]

Whatever. I speak from personal experience. Skunk is simply far too strong for me and many of my sons friends who smoke it do bugger all else with their lives. It has been bred to be biased towards one natural ingredient and whatever technique was used to do that is by-the-by. I'm not anti cannabis, as I said I smoked it all day long for the greater part of my life with no ill effect. Perhaps you are too young to have experienced real natural stuff imported from around the world. They're all different, but never did I wake up with a skunk type hangover.

I've never woken with a skunk type hangover either. Smoked tons of the stuff mind. The thing is that even after a few beers if I fancy some Pussers rum I don't drink it by the pint.

[Delta9]

Whatever. I speak from personal experience. Skunk is simply far too strong for me and many of my sons friends who smoke it do bugger all else with their lives. It has been bred to be biased towards one natural ingredient and whatever technique was used to do that is by-the-by. I'm not anti cannabis, as I said I smoked it all day long for the greater part of my life with no ill effect. Perhaps you are too young to have experienced real natural stuff imported from around the world. They're all different, but never did I wake up with a skunk type hangover.

To be honest it sounds like you don't even know what skunk is. The Moroccan hash that used to be really popular in the UK back in the 90's had a higher percentage of THC than any skunk on the market today. (about 25% vs 16-18%)

[John V]

 

A bit like alcohol then...

 

don' know about that hic think its the two together that's a problem......isn't it 15% of accidents are caused by drunk drivers so 85% are caused by sober ones ?

[Delta9]

I don't claim to know anything about drugs, even smoking hasn't attracted me. However the statement that nobody has died from cannabis I found interesting so I googled.

 

The first hit I got was the Daily Wail which lead to the New Scientist who do say death from Cannabis alone has occurred

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25092-cannabis-can-kill-without-the-influence-of-other-drugs.html#.U0wgEKKdHjl.

"Two of the deaths could not be attributed to anything but cannabis intoxication. Both were men who died of cardiac arrhythmia – when the heart beats too quickly or slowly. The team surmises that this was triggered by smoking cannabis."

 

​Running can also trigger cardiac arrhythmia.

 

The LD50 of cannabis is so high that it is physically impossible to ingest/smoke enough to kill you.

[Guest]

"Two of the deaths could not be attributed to anything but cannabis intoxication. Both were men who died of cardiac arrhythmia – when the heart beats too quickly or slowly. The team surmises that this was triggered by smoking cannabis." [/size]

 

​Running can also trigger cardiac arrhythmia.

 

The LD50 of cannabis is so high that it is physically impossible to ingest/smoke enough to kill you.

 

Yes but just because something else can kill you is not the same as saying cannabis cannot...

[Delta9]

Yes but just because something else can kill you is not the same as saying cannabis cannot...

I didn't say running could kill you. Triggering an underlying heart problem is not the same as killing. If cannabis triggered the cardiac arrhythmia in those people they would have probably also died if they went for a run or had sex instead of getting stoned. It wasn't the cannabis that killed them it was the heart problem that they already had... The only way cannabis can kill you is if a pallet of it falls on your head.

[Guest]

I didn't say running could kill you. Triggering an underlying heart problem is not the same as killing. If cannabis triggered the cardiac arrhythmia in those people they would have probably also died if they went for a run or had sex instead of getting stoned. It wasn't the cannabis that killed them it was the heart problem that they already had... The only way cannabis can kill you is if a pallet of it falls on your head.

If the underlying problem is there and the causation factor that causes your death is introduced that counts as killing you.

[Paul G2]

Yes but just because something else can kill you is not the same as saying cannabis cannot...

 

First of all, it is foolish of me to speak in absolutes because people will always come along and use that as an excuse to come up with all kinds of inane scenarios.

 

If you read the article Jerra referenced, the is no causation shown between the cannabis and the cardiac arrhythmia. The doctors themselves admit that they have failed to find causation, merely association, and they then draw specious conclusions, which happen to coincide with the outcome they were searching for.

 

I could reach the same associative conclusions with any lifetime habit in which the deceased had engaged in the 24 hours prior to their deaths, be it drinking milk or taking a bath. This "study" reaches conclusions without showing causation. That makes it not a scientific study, but propaganda.

[boathunter]

To be honest it sounds like you don't even know what skunk is. The Moroccan hash that used to be really popular in the UK back in the 90's had a higher percentage of THC than any skunk on the market today. (about 25% vs 16-18%)

 

You can quote percentages all day long, but I'm sticking to "Skunk is too strong and causes problems for people". That's my opinion based on my experience.

[Sir Nibble]

If the underlying problem is there and the causation factor that causes your death is introduced that counts as killing you.

People have collapsed and died after running a marathon. Best make running illegal.

[Delta9]

If the underlying problem is there and the causation factor that causes your death is introduced that counts as killing you.

So here is a story about a 13 year old kid that during a football match. He had an underlying heart condition that was triggered by him exercising vigorously (playing football)

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-25486184

 

Try to guess what the cause of death was listed as on his death certificate.

 

1) Heart Attack

 

or

 

2) Football

Edited April 14, 2014 by Delta9

[Paul G2]

If the underlying problem is there and the causation factor that causes your death is introduced that counts as killing you.

 

It says right there in the article, they failed to find causation!

 

It is not clear how cannabis could trigger arrhythmias. There might be unknown channelopathies that increase the risk of cardiac conditions triggered by the drug, says Hartung.

 

 

"There might be unknown...." C'mon, give me a friggin break. This is supposed be science, not Monty Python!

[Sir Nibble]

 

You can quote percentages all day long, but I'm sticking to "Skunk is too strong and causes problems for people". That's my opinion based on my experience.

There are always pitfalls for the unwary. Gin is too strong if you drink it in pints.

[Delta9]

 

You can quote percentages all day long, but I'm sticking to "Skunk is too strong and causes problems for people". That's my opinion based on my experience.

"You can quote science or real facts all day long, I'm basing my opinion on one anecdote"

[carlt]

 

don' know about that hic think its the two together that's a problem......isn't it 15% of accidents are caused by drunk drivers so 85% are caused by sober ones ?

I was thinking more about the negative violent effect alcohol has on folks' moods compared to the opposite effect cannabis has but yes, you are absolutely right, alcohol is a significant factor in many road deaths too.

Edited April 14, 2014 by carlt

[Guest]

People have collapsed and died after running a marathon. Best make running illegal.

Why?

 

Of course they have. A guy died on Sunday on completion of the London marathon.

 

My point is cannabis is unlikely to kill you neither is running, but if you have a pre existing condition either might....

[Sir Nibble]

Why?

 

Of course they have. A guy died on Sunday on completion of the London marathon.

 

My point is cannabis is unlikely to kill you neither is running, but if you have a pre existing condition either might....

Which unless you lump running and cannabis together as harmful fails to make any point at all.

[Guest]

Which unless you lump running and cannabis together as harmful fails to make any point at all.

You think?

 

Maybe my point is too complex, even though I thought it was really simple.