Dispute at Pillings

[tupperware]

 

 

Loved the picture of the loco working hard up the grade. Nonetheless, your choice of subject matter does indicate that a role as an investigative reporter for one of the "red-tops" might not be your forte.

Well, it is half-term and obviously his holiday with his life partner, who is a school teacher, is much more important than attending to the interests of his customers

 

One should not, of course, deny anyone a rest break from their everyday toil but one wonders whether a holiday at this time is tactically sound given that the IP will obviously wish to interview the gentleman concerned as part of his duties. One does also question whether resigning as a director is entirely a smart move.

 

 

As at April 2013..He was taking community charge from people who have a status of residential..

There was a booklet/story sent through by Mr Roy Rollings stating everyone who lived on site had to pay council /community charge.

Absolute nonsense of course..

Another scam no doubt!

If the Charnwood council got that is any ones guess

I wish that i went to the berth holders meeting for once to say my piece on this one ,but i thought why not someone else load the rifle of dispute.

 

Someone said they queried this notion with the local authority and they had no idea what they were on about

 

JohnLillie has posted that the original planning permission excluded residential berths yet there appears to be a number of liveaboards permanently moored at the marina. Quite how that works is something of a mystery and one wonders if the additional BSS requirements for such craft have been met. For an ostensibly straightforward liquidation, it does seem to be becoming increasingly complicated.

What about the service and workshop building as there is a separate company in there now?

 

The engineering company at the marina could, presumably, have leased the space and building from either QMP and PLM. If the former, the IP can, of course, declaim any responsibility to continue the lease arrangements which might leave the engineering company without premises. As they must rely on boats being able to enter and leave the marina, any CRT blockade will also damage their business. Like the moorers, it would seem that their interests have also jeopardised by recent events.

[MtB]

A few randon commetns:

 

If PLM were making the mortgage payments to Steadman on behalf of QMP for eight years, might this account for the £1.6m QMP owes PLM according to the statement of affairs at the creditors' meeting?

 

 

One does also question whether resigning as a director is entirely a smart move.

 

One also wonders what the legal effect having no directors has on a Ltd Co. I suspect under normal circumstances it would be in grave danger of being struck off or a wind up order issued, but when it is in voluntary insolvency, then what?

 

 

 

Quite how that works is something of a mystery and one wonders if the additional BSS requirements for such craft have been met.

 

There aren't any as far as I know. Are you thinking of the fact that liveaboards additionally fall within the scope of Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 perhaps?

 

 

MtB

[TruckDrivingMan]

 

For a sole trader I would agree. Nonetheless, for limited liability companies, given that the financial records need to be rather more comprehensive and need to be filed annually, then hiding such a malpractice would be more difficult. Furthermore, for a company registered for VAT, a return must be filed quarterly to cover the ingoings/outgoings for the previous three months and any sum due remitted to HMRC within about a month of the quarter-end. Failure to comply will result in the usual red letters and, after a suitable period, proceedings will be instituted which includes the right for HMRC to examine the financial records to determine the reasons for non-compliance and what sum plus interest and charges, if any, is due.

 

 

Well, I like many others here have a great deal of sympathy for those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in this position. In my own case, however, that sympathy is not likely to be proof against a tendency for people to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that everything will be all right on the night. It is most improbable that such individuals have sought reassurance from CRT whose own position and intent seems crystal clear.

I am moored at Pillings (until this Sunday) and have been communicating with CRT because I don't believe anything that PLM staff tell me. Personally I hope CRT pile across the entrance and leave it in place until all the management rats have left the sinking ship.

[MtB]

I am moored at Pillings (until this Sunday) and have been communicating with CRT because I don't believe anything that PLM staff tell me. Personally I hope CRT pile across the entrance and leave it in place until all the management rats have left the sinking ship.

 

That's intriguing. What have CRT been saying as a result of you communicating with them?

 

It would seem fairest for CRT to chain off the entrance so boats could be let out easily after April 13th but not let back in. Other people have said CRT are planning to insert the stop planks in the marina entrance.

 

I doubt they'll pile across the entrance unless it becomes clear PLM MkII refuses to accept any conditions CRT might require for a new access agreement and stalemate descends. It's CRT's nuclear option.

 

MtB

[Ex- Member]

I am moored at Pillings (until this Sunday) and have been communicating with CRT because

I don't believe anything that PLM staff tell me.

 

Personally I hope CRT pile across the entrance and leave it in place until all the management rats have left the sinking ship.

 

It's astonishing that so many moorers at Pillings are willing to keep taking it up the proverbial.

 

Well done for getting out, you're clearly not susceptible to brainwashing. Hopefully you haven't lost money either. happy cruising

[deckhand]

I am moored at Pillings (until this Sunday) and have been communicating with CRT because I don't believe anything that PLM staff tell me. Personally I hope CRT pile across the entrance and leave it in place until all the management rats have left the sinking ship.

Thinking of you and I cant imagine being in this situation. Its not fair when innocent people are affected.

[Ray T]

 

That's intriguing. What have CRT been saying as a result of you communicating with them?

 

It would seem fairest for CRT to chain off the entrance so boats could be let out easily after April 13th but not let back in. Other people have said CRT are planning to insert the stop planks in the marina entrance.

 

I doubt they'll pile across the entrance unless it becomes clear PLM MkII refuses to accept any conditions CRT might require for a new access agreement and stalemate descends. It's CRT's nuclear option.

 

MtB

 

Another "ultimate option" sink a boat in the entrance? Ala Scappa Flow block ship.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Ray T

[tupperware]

A few randon commetns:

 

If PLM were making the mortgage payments to Steadman on behalf of QMP for eight years, might this account for the £1.6m QMP owes PLM according to the statement of affairs at the creditors' meeting?

 

 

 

One also wonders what the legal effect having no directors has on a Ltd Co. I suspect under normal circumstances it would be in grave danger of being struck off or a wind up order issued, but when it is in voluntary insolvency, then what?

 

 

 

 

There aren't any as far as I know. Are you thinking of the fact that liveaboards additionally fall within the scope of Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 perhaps?

 

 

MtB

 

If an only director were to throw in the towel, this would not, of course, absolve such an individual from being required to account for his or her actions prior to resignation. As I said, not entirely a smart move.

"If PLM were making the mortgage payments to Steadman on behalf of QMP for eight years, might this account for the £1.6m QMP owes PLM according to the statement of affairs at the creditors' meeting?"

 

Well, it might but do past accounts show a build of such a debt? If not, then that debt has been incurred relatively recently. If the debt has built up then how could QMP ever be in a position to liquidate that debt?

[johnlillie]

If PLM were making mortgage payments on behalf of QMP, then surely PLM would have to be paying "rent" to QMP in order to operate at the site owned by QMP. One would sort of cancel the other out. I still think the £1.6m owed by QMP, is the development costs, sources as stated before.

[MtB]

If PLM were making mortgage payments on behalf of QMP, then surely PLM would have to be paying "rent" to QMP in order to operate at the site owned by QMP. One would sort of cancel the other out. I still think the £1.6m owed by QMP, is the development costs, sources as stated before.

 

How did PLM raise the cash to fund the development costs then?

 

More to the point, why? Given that QMP owns the site.

 

 

MtB

[Mike Todd]

 

OK. The scheme is flawed, in my view, and for reasons I have stated and expanded upon. Lumbering a marina with high fixed costs unrelated to actual turnover is a good way to drive it out of business.

 

But nowhere have I stated that the flaws in the agreement justified Pillings withholding payment.

 

Your little lecture clearly suggested that I had said that.

 

Now, you have also made a number of other really quite untrue and unpleasant statements, but we are all human (well, most of us), and I don't think we need dwell on them, other than for me to record the fact that I don't think they were justified.

 

Let us put this behind us.

You describe the NAA as 'a high fixed cost'. In the scale of the overall marina investment and the turnover needed to service the debt, that claim seems overly excessive. After all, it was not more the gross cost of one salaried employee.

[TruckDrivingMan]

Thanks everyone for messages of support, it is very welcome.

 

Mtb,

It seems clear to me from dialog with CRT that their focus is on protecting themselves against any future defaults (not just at Pillings) also they are keen to pursue the financial dealings of QMH/QMP/PLM with the IP.

I am not exposed (but many friends are) as I chose to pay monthly last year (not a premonition just luck!).

 

I cancelled my payments to PLM in January because since the high court judgement we have no legal access to the network, merely the physical access due to the marina not carrying out the court's ruling.

 

I have no doubt that CRT will block the entrance in April and I believe they will not enter into a new agreement with any company structure which replicates the previous one. As I see it they can just sit tight until the marina goes completely out of business.

 

Just a thought, but if the Steadmans do have ambitions to develop the site for housing, how many people would want to buy a house less than 200 yards due East of a sewage treatment works? Nevermind the extra costs of building on a gravel pit and the unlikleyhood of the council allowing development (though as we know this can change on a whim if the govt of the day wants it).

 

For the record, my contract was with PLM although I am unsure whether this applies to the leases too.

 

Take care

Tdm

[MtB]

Mtb,

It seems clear to me from dialog with CRT that their focus is on protecting themselves against any future defaults (not just at Pillings) also they are keen to pursue the financial dealings of QMH/QMP/PLM with the IP.

 

 

Thank you for that. VERY encouraging to hear CRT are not going to sleepwalk into the same thing again three years down the line.

 

MtB

[tupperware]

Thanks everyone for messages of support, it is very welcome.

 

Mtb,

It seems clear to me from dialog with CRT that their focus is on protecting themselves against any future defaults (not just at Pillings) also they are keen to pursue the financial dealings of QMH/QMP/PLM with the IP.

I am not exposed (but many friends are) as I chose to pay monthly last year (not a premonition just luck!).

 

I cancelled my payments to PLM in January because since the high court judgement we have no legal access to the network, merely the physical access due to the marina not carrying out the court's ruling.

 

I have no doubt that CRT will block the entrance in April and I believe they will not enter into a new agreement with any company structure which replicates the previous one. As I see it they can just sit tight until the marina goes completely out of business.

 

Just a thought, but if the Steadmans do have ambitions to develop the site for housing, how many people would want to buy a house less than 200 yards due East of a sewage treatment works? Nevermind the extra costs of building on a gravel pit and the unlikleyhood of the council allowing development (though as we know this can change on a whim if the govt of the day wants it).

 

For the record, my contract was with PLM although I am unsure whether this applies to the leases too.

 

Take care

Tdm

 

Thanks for passing on your thoughts. I suspected that CRT would be assiduous in communicating their interests to the IP and it seems that they are determined to pursue this matter wherever it may lead. There does seem little doubt that CRT are firm in their intent to sever the marina from the network come April and anyone moored in the marina who signs up to the claim advanced by the marina staff that it is all a storm in a teacup and has been resolved seems to inhabit some alternative universe.

 

Thank you for that. VERY encouraging to hear CRT are not going to sleepwalk into the same thing again three years down the line.

 

MtB

 

MTB. It does seem that your fear,expressed some pages back, that CRT would not keep themselves well informed about the conduct of the IP and participate in the liquidation accordingly may be groundless. This is excellent news for all those whose marinas.do not fail to pay their debts.

[johnlillie]

 

How did PLM raise the cash to fund the development costs then?

 

More to the point, why? Given that QMP owns the site.

 

 

MtB

development funds came from leases £500k, shareholders input £800k

[tupperware]

You describe the NAA as 'a high fixed cost'. In the scale of the overall marina investment and the turnover needed to service the debt, that claim seems overly excessive. After all, it was not more the gross cost of one salaried employee.

 

Indeed so. I have heard an annual figure of £44,000 suggested which would represent the annual mooring charges of some 25 craft. To describe this as excessive seems somewhat perverse particularly as a contract was entered into with CRT which would have explicitly stated the charges. Lastly, the fees payable under an NAA are on a sliding scale to permit a new marina to become established.

[Captain Fizz]

I was at Pillings Lock earlier this week, there are plenty of boats still there.

I wonder when/if the mass exodus will begin.

Does anyone know what the setup is with the workshop. Is it a stand alone operation or run by Plm. There was not much going on while I was there and the workshop was seriously untidy with no boats in.

If it is stand alone, presumably, if the entrance is blocked, it too will cease trading.

[tupperware]

development funds came from leases £500k, shareholders input £800k

 

Are the leases in the name of QMP or PLM? I would assume the former as they owned the land. If so, then the £500K could not represent a debt arising from PLM lending QMP the money. Likewise, unless PLM are a shareholder of QMP which seems somewhat improbable, then the £800k would also not seem a candidate for part of the QMP debt to PLM. Furthermore, even if PLM passed that sum across to QMP as a loan, where would it obtain such a sum?

 

It still seems most odd for the owner of a property to own £1.6million to its tenant.

I was at Pillings Lock earlier this week, there are plenty of boats still there.

I wonder when/if the mass exodus will begin.

Does anyone know what the setup is with the workshop. Is it a stand alone operation or run by Plm. There was not much going on while I was there and the workshop was seriously untidy with no boats in.

If it is stand alone, presumably, if the entrance is blocked, it too will cease trading.

 

I believe that the engineering company is an entirely separate entity from QMP and PLM and that its owners moved the premises then relatively recently. They will, of course, be one of the businesses that are likely to suffer as a result of recent events.

[Naughty Cal]

I was at Pillings Lock earlier this week, there are plenty of boats still there.

I wonder when/if the mass exodus will begin.

Does anyone know what the setup is with the workshop. Is it a stand alone operation or run by Plm. There was not much going on while I was there and the workshop was seriously untidy with no boats in.

If it is stand alone, presumably, if the entrance is blocked, it too will cease trading.

 

No doubt the forum will be bombarded with complaints against CRT from moorers still at Pilings when they block off the marina entrance

[Dangerous Dave]

It's no good i cannot keep this to myself any longer...

 

Yesterday afternoon i had a visit from the Police on a basis that a complaint had been made to them by a Mr Paul Lilie..

 

It is alleged that i have been making threatening malicious comments on a forum known as CWDG (??)!

 

The information sheet went on that PL has found this threatening and has caused him distress!

 

No further action is going to be made but the evidence may be used against me if i was to continue(?) such actions!

 

I don't know how i managed to keep a straight face with the interview!

The Policeman was fine with me and when asking the backgound to this i suggested to read page 3 of the "dispute at Pillings Lock Marina" on the CWDG or spend a few hours reading through the thread and form his own opinion of such a stinker of a person!

[johnlillie]

I have trawled back through, albeit hastily, and can find no comments whatsoever that could be construed as a personal insult, criticising his management skills, yes, but personal?

[Paul C]

It's no good i cannot keep this to myself any longer...

 

Yesterday afternoon i had a visit from the Police on a basis that a complaint had been made to them by a Mr Paul Lilie..

 

It is alleged that i have been making threatening malicious comments on a forum known as CWDG (??)!

 

The information sheet went on that PL has found this threatening and has caused him distress!

 

No further action is going to be made but the evidence may be used against me if i was to continue(?) such actions!

 

I don't know how i managed to keep a straight face with the interview!

The Policeman was fine with me and when asking the backgound to this i suggested to read page 3 of the "dispute at Pillings Lock Marina" on the CWDG or spend a few hours reading through the thread and form his own opinion of such a stinker of a person!

 

Lets hope the police read this thread, then get back to Paul Lillie and have a word about wasting police time.

[JerryP]

It's no good i cannot keep this to myself any longer...

 

Yesterday afternoon i had a visit from the Police on a basis that a complaint had been made to them by a Mr Paul Lilie..

 

It is alleged that i have been making threatening malicious comments on a forum known as CWDG (??)!

 

The information sheet went on that PL has found this threatening and has caused him distress!

 

No further action is going to be made but the evidence may be used against me if i was to continue(?) such actions!

 

I don't know how i managed to keep a straight face with the interview!

The Policeman was fine with me and when asking the backgound to this i suggested to read page 3 of the "dispute at Pillings Lock Marina" on the CWDG or spend a few hours reading through the thread and form his own opinion of such a stinker of a person!

 

 

I do hope you showed him the letter he sent you ?

[tupperware]

It's no good i cannot keep this to myself any longer...

 

Yesterday afternoon i had a visit from the Police on a basis that a complaint had been made to them by a Mr Paul Lilie..

 

It is alleged that i have been making threatening malicious comments on a forum known as CWDG (??)!

 

The information sheet went on that PL has found this threatening and has caused him distress!

 

No further action is going to be made but the evidence may be used against me if i was to continue(?) such actions!

 

I don't know how i managed to keep a straight face with the interview!

The Policeman was fine with me and when asking the backgound to this i suggested to read page 3 of the "dispute at Pillings Lock Marina" on the CWDG or spend a few hours reading through the thread and form his own opinion of such a stinker of a person!

 

Let me know your place of incarceration and I'll send you a cake with a file in it.

 

This is beyond parody.

[Dangerous Dave]

 

Let me know your place of incarceration and I'll send you a cake with a file in it.

 

This is beyond parody.

 

If i get arrested by a gorgeous WPC i know from LCC i'll be staying put thank you..lol