Dispute at Pillings

[FredDrift]

Thnak for the advice, i guess we will just have to watch this space and see gow it pans out. All I can say is what a mess, rummer has it, already the moorers are looking into getting licence fees back, who knows what will happen now

 

Is that all of the moorers or just a handful?

 

It seems exceedingly unlikely at this stage that licence fee refunds are at the top of most moorer's agenda unless of course, they all want to be permanently confined to the marina and they all expect / want the connection to remain permanently severed.

 

Hopefully a solution will be found, beneficial to those moored there and to CaRT. Ideally such a solution will exclude entirely the person(s) responsible for bring about the whole situation through his/their dishonesty and sharp practise.

[gaggle]

If we all leave, then the company will deffinalty not be able to survive? It is one option. Again, the impact this will have in the waterways of, I think about 300 boats coming out together would certainly hit the head lines "300 boats block up British cannals" :-)

surely it is already dead.

[RLWP]

If we all leave, then the company will deffinalty not be able to survive? It is one option. Again, the impact this will have in the waterways of, I think about 300 boats coming out together would certainly hit the head lines "300 boats block up British cannals" :-)

 

I think in your situation, I would sit tight and keep myself informed. As Mike the Boiler says, I'm sure that there will be a trading marina there in 12 months time, no matter who is running it

 

If the worst happens, I'm sure you'll get plenty of notice of the entrance being closed, so you can move your boat much nearer the date. You'll have some facts to work with then rather than speculation, rumour and worry

 

Richard

[MtB]

If we all leave, then the company will deffinalty not be able to survive? It is one option. Again, the impact this will have in the waterways of, I think about 300 boats coming out together would certainly hit the head lines "300 boats block up British cannals" :-)

 

Definitely not. Pillings under whatever hat will not survive with no boats paying £xk a year in mooring fees.

 

And yes 300 boats 'blocking up' the cut will certainly change the dynamic of the negotiations. I think it is what you will all have to do.

 

MtB

[Thorfast]

Who appoints the administrator?

My first thought is that the company do this, but somewhere I seem to remember that if there is one large creditor (CaRT) they can decide who gets appointed at the creditors meeting that has been called.

If CaRT appoint the administrator it could make it harder for a 'phoenix' company to take over.

[Gatesofrome]

Is that all of the moorers or just a handful?

 

It seems exceedingly unlikely at this stage that licence fee refunds are at the top of most moorer's agenda unless of course, they all want to be permanently confined to the marina and they all expect / want the connection to remain permanently severed.

 

Hopefully a solution will be found, beneficial to those moored there and to CaRT. Ideally such a solution will exclude entirely the person(s) responsible for bring about the whole situation through his/their dishonesty and sharp practise.

I do not know how many, like I said rummer at the moment!

[Mike Todd]

Now I only know a little bit , and his was from the meeting, it seems that there has been some payments, if I remember rightly, we were told £45000 and he ows £16000, I think that was the figue anyway.

What has been claimed on this thread is that PL offered to pay a lesser amount, going so far as to send CaRT a cheque. It has not been clarified, but I'd hazard a guess that it was returned because it was offered with conditions such as full and final settlement of all outstanding debts and a commitment to a lower rate in future. Unsurprisingly, that would not be acceptable and the action does not amount to 'paying' anything, as the court judgement indicates.

[MtB]

Any boater reclaiming their licence fee is clearly planning to stay on the inside of the stanking on 13th April, so can be ruled out of the mass exodus plan!!

 

MtB

[Gatesofrome]

Definitely not. Pillings under whatever hat will not survive with no boats paying £xk a year in mooring fees.

 

And yes 300 boats 'blocking up' the cut will certainly change the dynamic of the negotiations. I think it is what you will all have to do.

 

MtB

We have a solution lol

[MtB]

Yes, and the media will love it, too. You're gonna be a TV star!

 

 

MtB

[SoosieQ]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum business, but have been watching/reading it with some interest. I do not moor at Pillings Lock and am in no way connected with the manager, Mr Lillie...I do know of him tho. I wont comment on my thoughts about him as the discussion does not call for it. I have read with interest all of the posts (it took some time ) and have a question to ask. If in all the negotiations that Mr Lillie has had with CaRT, whereby they told him that if he was to reduce his marina berths the cost of the NAA would reduce.....why have his berths increased instead? If you view the marina plan and then view the site on BING maps,there is a new pontoon....surely increasing his revenue thereby enabling him to pay his dues?

http://www.bing.com/maps/?FORM=Z9LH3#Y3A9NTMuMzgzMDk5fi0xLjQ2NDgwMCZsdmw9NiZzdHk9ciZlbz0wJnE9bGUxMiUyNTIwOGZl the site as it currently is

 

the marina plan

 

 

http://www.pillingslock.com/images/componants/berth_plan.jpg

[Gatesofrome]

surely it is already dead.

Then it would be worth less and we poss could take it over, yet another solution yey potential number 2 solution

Yes, and the media will love it, too. You're gonna be a TV star!

 

 

MtB

Now there a plan, but I don't think I will make the famous money for it, pants

 

Why when ever there is a plus there is a minus! :-)

Edited January 25, 2014 by Gatesofrome

[MtB]

Then it would be worth less and we poss could take it over, yet another solution yey potential nume 2 solution

 

Very much so in my opinion. This depends on you lot getting a solicitor or someone familiar with company law to guide you. A marina with no network access is worth virtually nothing.

 

Before opening up the access again you'll need to make a new NAA with CRT and agree to pay future NAA fees (and collect the mooring fees) but CRT will probably be fine with this as you are not Paul Lillie.

 

MtB

Edited January 25, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[Alan de Enfield]

Mike the Boilerman, on 25 Jan 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:Mike the Boilerman, on 25 Jan 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

 

Very much so in my opinion. This depends on you lot getting a solicitor or someone familiar with company law to guide you. A marina with no network access is worth virtually nothing.

 

Before opening up the access again you'll need to make a new NAA with CRT and agree to pay future NAA fees (and collect the mooring fees) but CRT will probably be fine with this as you are not Paul Lillie.

 

MtB

 

Maybe I have misunderstood the situation but I thought it was Quorn Marinas that has gone into liquidation, the companies "either side of them" (ie the Marina Owner and Pillings Lock Marina) are still in existence.

 

If the moorers 'buy-up' Quorn Marinas they will only be a 'land management company' they will not be a 'Marina Operator' which will still be PLM (AKA Paul Lillie)

 

The 'new company will pay a fee to the Marina Owner (AKA Paul Lilie) to allow them to rent out the marina to PLM ( AKA Paul Lillie)

 

The 'new' company will have no say in the running of the marina and will not collect mooring fees. They will collect an 'fee' from P Lillie (as he is 'renting' the marina from them) and they will be responsible for paying C&RT the NAA fee.

 

If I've got it all wrong I'll delete it - but - this is my undserstanding of the 'tangled web' of companies involved.

 

Edit :

Companies House listing showing 'Business Activities'

 

1) Quorn Marina Properties = Management of real estate on a fee or contract basis

2) Quorn Marina Holdings = Other letting and operating of own or leased real estate

3) Pilings Lock Marina = Other amusement and recreation activities

Edited January 25, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Athy]

. I have read with interest all of the posts (it took some time )

 

[quote

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome along, Soosie.

 

Yes, I have never known such a fast-moving thread. This morning I decided to catch up with it, I noted that I had two pages' worth to read. I read them, and found that so many people had been posting their opinions and questions that I STILL had two pages to read! I have finally caught up - I think. No doubt by the time I post this, fifteen more bods will have snuck in ahead of me.

As the thread's posts hurtle towards the four-figure barrier (will this be a record, apart from the long-standing "Friday Joke"?), we don't seem to be much closer to a solution or even to a consensus of opinion.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Athy

[SoosieQ]

Thank you Athy...it is certainly a topic that is garnering some conversation. But then, its peoples homes & lives that are being disputed I guess. Its such a shame, something underhand appears to have been happening. People paying in good faith and those monies not being handed over to the correct departments/bodies

[MtB]

 

Maybe I have misunderstood the situation but I thought it was Quorn Marinas that has gone into liquidation, the companies "either side of them" (ie the Marina Owner and Pillings Lock Marina) are still in existence.

 

If the moorers 'buy-up' Quorn Marinas they will only be a 'land management company' they will not be a 'Marina Operator' which will still be PLM (AKA Paul Lillie)

 

The 'new company will pay a fee to the Marina Owner (AKA Paul Lilie) to allow them to rent out the marina to PLM ( AKA Paul Lillie)

 

The 'new' company will have no say in the running of the marina and will not collect mooring fees. They will collect an 'fee' from P Lillie (as he is 'renting' the marina from them) and they will be responsible for paying C&RT the NAA fee.

 

If I've got it all wrong I'll delete it - but - this is my undserstanding of the 'tangled web' of companies involved.

 

Edit :

Companies House listing showing 'Business Activities'

 

1) Quorn Marina Properties = Management of real estate on a fee or contract basis

2) Quorn Marina Holdings = Management of real estate on a fee or contract basis

3) Pilings Lock Marina = Other amusement and recreation activities

 

I don't have a clear grip on it either, but looking at the bigger picture, once the stanking goes in the value of the assets of all three companies falls to little more than a row of beans.

 

Whichever way you slice it up, the new company which negotiates a new NAA with CRT holds the whip hand, and a consortium of moorers has a far better chance of getting a new NAA than any company controlled my Mr Lillie, in my view.

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I don't have a clear grip on it either, but looking at the bigger picture, once the stanking goes in the value of the assets of all three companies falls to little more than a row of beans.

 

Whichever way you slice it up, the new company which negotiates a new NAA with CRT holds the whip hand, and a consortium of moorers has a far better chance of getting a new NAA than any company controlled my Mr Lillie, in my view.

 

MtB

 

Agreed but would you want P Lillie as both your landlord and your only customer ?

What happens when 'it gets a bit tight' and he witholds his 'rent' for a few months ?

 

As low as the interest rate is, I'd rather my money was in the bank

[alan_fincher]

We traveled last year some distance and the cannals were badly maintained we struggled with over grown trees and grounded a number of time due to lack of dredging, what do CRT do for the money we pay any way?

 

A bit of research would reveal that what we all pay collectively to CRT for licences and moorings, (either directly or indirectly) don't come close to the actual cost of maintaining and running the canals for us to enjoy our boats on. Not even half the required amount.

 

Without the large amount of central funding that has been agreed for the next several years, you would find bits of the system quickly becoming unusable.

 

The issues you discuss will be ever present, because no way in the world will CRT ever have the funds to maintain infrastructure, dredge, and cut trees and bank-side vegetation, as well as dealing with the many failures of a 200 plus year old system, in a way that satisfies a lot of leisure boaters of today.

 

That said we have travelled much of the system in the last few years, including a lot of it on an ex working boat with far greater draught than most modern leisure boats. Although we can regularly not get to the side, (and working boats didn't expect to at most places, when they were working canals!), our record on actual groundings is virtually nil. You should have tried boating the canals 40 years ago - there is still plenty that is far from perfect now, but the situation is much better than it was then - massively so!

[john6767]

Hopefully I have got this right.

 

Way back in the thread the email from CRT to the moorers was quoted and that stated that the NAA had already been terminated and that boats in the marina therefore no longer needed to be licenced. As there was no longer a NAA in place the marina was required to block off the entrance immediately, and if the marina did not do that then CRT would do it themselves. As the company that had the NAA is now being run by the liquidaters, presumably those liquidators still have the obligation to block the access that they now longer have any right to.

[MtB]

John6767, your understanding and memory of that email agrees with mine.

 

Good point about the cancelled NAA and the obligation to block off the entrance now. An official company administrator will probably comply with this obligation more or less immediately.

 

The boaters who are in the process of cancelling their licences could be being rather short-sighted. They may wish to move their boats out onto the cut when the pile driving across the entrance begins.

 

Or maybe they are taking the longer view, and just happy stay inside the marina while the whole thing renders down to a solution and the stanking is removed again. Bit risky in my view. An angry marina operator may deny them road access to their homes in a fit of pique, and in an attempt to apply more pressure to CRT to cave in.

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

. An angry marina operator may deny them road access to their homes in a fit of pique, and in an attempt to apply more pressure to CRT to cave in.

 

MtB

 

Wasn't it also said in the dim and distant past that there wasnt actually any legal road access to the Marina and that moorers etc were using a bridleway ?

 

I suppose he could 'bolt the gate'

[Rich]

Ah - well - - even a Mr Ric Hard could be a good name for a Marina Manager!

Odd that given your forum name you should choose to comment on mine

[Tuscan]

The administrator will only comply with CRTs request to block the marina entrance if he had the funds to do so which I very much doubt he has? I wonder what happened to the funds behind the cheque that CRT returned when they ceased negotiations, are they still there?

 

The reality in most cases like this is that all the creditors lose , not just CRT,( hopefully the administrator can check there have been no preferential payments to other creditors ie the related Quorn companies in which case he can try and recover some of these.). The only players in the game remain the otherQuorn related companies who no doubt will create a new marina operating company.

 

CRT will probably have to deal with the new co on the same terms , with no doubt some additional security, but I suspect the £180k is gone. As the business model has not changed what makes anybody think the marina can survive as a going concern with the existing owners no doubt milking the marina operating co as before. As the risk of failure still exists then any non live aboard boater should consider moving elsewhere ASAP in my view. Even as a live aboard I would be ensuring I was ready to move at short notice.

[Rich]

And I was wondering if it ever gets abbreviated to 'Dick'...

 

Only kidding!

 

 

MtB

MtB, hmm. Brings to mind elegance and beautiful lines with death dealing ability. Looking at your picture the first two obviously don't apply, the last, who knows?

'This is my friend Richard, but he prefers Dick'

Nightwatch, perhaps pinched from Terry Pratchett? If so no further comment needed.