viewing a trad with a rn engine

[pete harrison]

THE BLACK HOLE

 

This is not a disimalr view from when we owned BADSEY with four exceptions.

 

1 - a green National in place of a greem P3 (I was going to put in a 2 cylinder Lister H series or possible a Petter PD2)

 

2 - the corner tanks were painted green (and I think they had roses painted on them but I am not sure)

 

3 - where this photograph shows something that has possible leaked in the corner (from the gunwale ?) there was no leak, although there previously had been as the bulkhead had corroded through - in the same place on both sides but I think these were repaired by the "well known painter".

 

4 - it is considerably less oily on the boats bottom (which I delberately left oily to prevent corrosion, although arguably the boat was eroding away more from the underneath as it ran through the mud and bounced through the bridgeholes).

 

edit - I suppose these four things indicate that BADSEY's engine room has changed for the better since we sold it twenty three years ago, although the floor plates are clearly the same (the slots in the floor plate by the corner tank were for a belt driven bilge pump).

Edited August 26, 2013 by pete harrison

[saxplayer]

No it takes a lot more to scare us off!!!!

thank you for the replies have only just had the chance to read them.

we have made an offer and has been accepted, soon we should be the new custodians .

 

One of the best engines I came across was a Deltic. 3 crankshafts moving apposing pistons.

Started by a shot gun cartridge

shaun

[frangar]

 

One of the best engines I came across was a Deltic. 3 crankshafts moving apposing pistons.

Started by a shot gun cartridge

shaun

Now one of those in a narrowboat would be amusing!!...possibly bit tricky to spin by hand tho.....

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[c c]

3 - where this photograph shows something that has possible leaked in the corner (from the gunwale ?) there was no leak, although there previously had been as the bulkhead had corroded through - in the same place on both sides but I think these were repaired by the "well known painter".

 

4 - it is considerably less oily on the boats bottom (which I delberately left oily to prevent corrosion, although arguably the boat was eroding away more from the underneath as it ran through the mud and bounced through the bridgeholes).

 

(the slots in the floor plate by the corner tank were for a belt driven bilge pump).

Thanks Pete, I wondered what those slots were for and assumed they were just there from the piece of metal that was cut to fit the corner.

3 - Not from a leak but it is filler I had not rubbed down before painting as both sides of that bulkhead were rotted through. I was advised not to bother to replace it as it bears no load in either direction.

4 - Oh I do assure you that it is oily now. That picture is from 1995.

No it takes a lot more to scare us off!!!!

thank you for the replies have only just had the chance to read them.

we have made an offer and has been accepted, soon we should be the new custodians .

 

Shaun, Well done - So did it have a National or RN?

(We were looking for a Sax player for our blues band)

[saxplayer]

 

the engine

[bassplayer]

 

the engine

It's a DM2 like mine. It's true they are difficult to start in the cold but there is a workaround. Take the air filter off and point a blow torch into the air intake (taking great care not to set fire to anything!). Hold the blow torch slightly away from the intake otherwise the suction will blow it out. Turn the engine over and it should start like a dream. I could start mine last winter like this in sub zero temperatures.

 

Richard Milligan gave me this tip and I would thoroughly recommend him to anyone, great bloke. Good luck, lovely engine.

[c c]

Hold on - Saxplayer - Bassplayer - I play a Fender Blackie

Does anyone know a drummer with a DM2 ?

The Diemtoos

[RLWP]

Why do you need a drummer - you've got a DM2

 

Richard

[bassplayer]

Why do you need a drummer - you've got a DM2

 

Richard

Yeah, a DM2 for rock/pop and DM3 for swing/blues....

[Athy]

....and perhaps something which is missing on one cylinder for that reggae rhythm where the first beat of every bar is missed out?

[Pykebird]

Thank god for idiot proof BMC's! I would have lost the will to live by the time I got one of these engine going! Respect guys

[billh]

 

Take off the two valve rocker covers on the inlet side, that will expose the inlet ports. Four or five squirts with an oilcan into each port will help to seal the piston rings and raise the compression ratio slightly. Likewise the flaming rag can be held above the ports, or under the air intake box on the side if you haven't taken off the covers. Be aware, though, that the box should have a layer of coconut matting which is probably soaked in oil if it's been there a long time and could conceivably start to smoulder if you overdo it. These days a little gas blowlamp is a much easier and safer way to introduce warm air to the intakes.

The flaming rag is an old dodge which is maybe a bit too dramatic for modern sensibilities and an elfinsafety aware world.

 

Incidentally the valve covers would originally be held on by screws with knurled heads, so that they could be removed & replaced without spanners.

 

Edit - that engine is a bit unusual in that it has the intake box but it's piped up to that dome inlet cover. The usual arrangement is that the intake box has a line of slots in the bottom, above which sits a layer of coconut matting to act as an air silencer and to keep out chewy bits. The other arrangement is RN-style, with an inlet manifold bolted onto the tops of the heads, with a different shape of valve cover to accommodate the manifold.

 

 

Tim

I have now got part ownership in a boat with a National . There is no filter in the inlet box, but I see from the above that it should have coconut matting which, as Tim describes, would get full of oil and very messy. So, is there a modern , easily available substitute? With the box empty, the air inlet is surprisingly noisy though the engine starts and runs well enough. I was thinking some sort of fibreglass matting or modified automotive air filter. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Bill

[captain birdseye]

Bill,

 

Would one of the modern air filters as fitter to the RN DM2 not fit the National

 

Chris (Gnome)

[billh]

Bill,

 

Would one of the modern air filters as fitter to the RN DM2 not fit the National

 

Chris (Gnome)

Hi Captain,

Dunno ,Is the RN inlet box the same arrangement as that shown in the National pictures above, can you have a look? What does the RN filter consist of?

Bill

[steamraiser2]

 

 

One of the best engines I came across was a Deltic. 3 crankshafts moving apposing pistons.

Started by a shot gun cartridge

shaun

You can have fun with a Deltic. In my RN days it was always fun to ask the new guys to "pull the handle and turn it off" They stop very abruptly indeed, Just like something terminal has happened! Often with a series of awful thuds ! Add one of those " WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE LOOKS" and the newbies would quake and usually blurt out that they had only "pulled the handle". Nearly as much fun as getting them to turn the hand wind to circulate oil before start up. As they got near to the obligatory 144 turns it was de rigeur to challenge their counting and make them do it again tee hee..pure evil! Some people have no sense of humour..can't imagine why!

[Timleech]

I have now got part ownership in a boat with a National . There is no filter in the inlet box, but I see from the above that it should have coconut matting which, as Tim describes, would get full of oil and very messy. So, is there a modern , easily available substitute? With the box empty, the air inlet is surprisingly noisy though the engine starts and runs well enough. I was thinking some sort of fibreglass matting or modified automotive air filter. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Bill

 

I'd be inclined to just put in some fresh coconut matting. It should take quite a long time to get seriously oily and nasty.

 

Tim

[mattlad]

Bill,

 

Would one of the modern air filters as fitter to the RN DM2 not fit the National

 

Chris (Gnome)

No. The inlets on the two engines are completely different.

[ditchcrawler]

 

One of the best engines I came across was a Deltic. 3 crankshafts moving apposing pistons.

Started by a shot gun cartridge

shaun

I was thinking about this the other day as I don't have first hand knowledge of cartridge start engines only air. Does the cartridge fire in the cylinder and if so what happens to the debris from that firing?

[MoominPapa]

I was thinking about this the other day as I don't have first hand knowledge of cartridge start engines only air. Does the cartridge fire in the cylinder and if so what happens to the debris from that firing?

Coffman starters on aero-engines are a small turbine which is supplied with gas from the cartridge, and drive the engine mechanically. I guess that a diesel is the same, but I don't know for sure.

 

MP.

[ditchcrawler]

Coffman starters on aero-engines are a small turbine which is supplied with gas from the cartridge, and drive the engine mechanically. I guess that a diesel is the same, but I don't know for sure.

 

MP.

I was thinking more like this

[Athy]

I think that Sabb engines use this method of starting. The cartridges look like short cigarettes.

[ditchcrawler]

I was thinking about this the other day as I don't have first hand knowledge of cartridge start engines only air. Does the cartridge fire in the cylinder and if so what happens to the debris from that firing?

I have since found this on Wiki

 

A cartridge starting system is also fitted to the tractor. A shot-gun type cartridge is loaded into a breech on the engine's intake system. The smouldering paper is placed in the cylinder head, and the cartridge is fired by tapping the protrusion pin with a hammer. This puts a charge into the bore, sending the piston through its stroke, bursting into life. This method, however, deposits carbon which often causes jamming of the decompression valve if cartridges are regularly used. It also puts significantly more strain on the engine.

[Timleech]

I think that Sabb engines use this method of starting. The cartridges look like short cigarettes.

 

 

Those are, in effect, glow plugs. Some are self-igniting under compression, but they are there to help with normal combustion for the first few strokes rather than to physically push the engine round.

 

I have since found this on Wiki

 

A cartridge starting system is also fitted to the tractor. A shot-gun type cartridge is loaded into a breech on the engine's intake system. The smouldering paper is placed in the cylinder head, and the cartridge is fired by tapping the protrusion pin with a hammer. This puts a charge into the bore, sending the piston through its stroke, bursting into life. This method, however, deposits carbon which often causes jamming of the decompression valve if cartridges are regularly used. It also puts significantly more strain on the engine.

 

Remember these are 2-stroke engines, no valves in the normal sense, so the debris will be more readily ejected through the ports than would be the case with a 4-stroke.

 

Another system, fitted to some engines for emergency starting, uses a strip of celluloid film in a tube attached to one cylinder head. This doesn't explode like a cartridge but does burn sufficiently rapidly to turn the engine over.

 

Tim

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

 

Remember these are 2-stroke engines, no valves in the normal sense, so the debris will be more readily ejected through the ports than would be the case with a 4-stroke.

 

 

Tim

Hadn't considered that