Canal Closed

[Mick and Maggie]

A void has appeared in a lock wall closing the Wolverhampton 21.

Another instance of a lock fail causing a canal to close.

Good old CaRT

 

[Nightwatch]

I was going to ask this question when the Aylesbury Arm was closed for the same type of incident. Wall failure.

 

Is this due to many many years of maintenance neglect of British Waterways?

Martyn

[Mrs Tawny Owl]

Not sure that's a fair comment. Things do go wrong with old structures, and they do seem to be getting on with working out how to fix it.

 

From this post in the thread about the stoppage

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57683&p=1093754

 

it would seem maybe vandalism is to blame, and that isn't CARTs fault.

 

Let's see how long they take to sort it before condemning them.

 

Sue

[pete.i]

Not sure that's a fair comment. Things do go wrong with old structures, and they do seem to be getting on with working out how to fix it.

 

From this post in the thread about the stoppage

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57683&p=1093754

 

it would seem maybe vandalism is to blame, and that isn't CARTs fault.

 

Let's see how long they take to sort it before condemning them.

 

Sue

 

Well said Mrs Tawny Owl. I think we do need to Give CaRT some leeway for the time being. Whether we like what's happened or not, re the enforced charitable statusof CaRT, they are doing their best with the resources they have for the present. Nightwatch is also right in as much that a lot of required repairs are the result of decades of neglect by British Waterways. Also, as was pointed out, the infrastucture is 250 years or more old.

 

Pete

[Nightwatch]

In a way to defend myself a little.

 

I am NOT having a go at anyone/organisation that runs our waterways at present ie.C&RT , in my view, British Waterways seem to have mis-managed the system by being re-active rather than pro-active in their approach to the maintenance.

 

I am, in all seriousness, giving C&RT a fair crack of the whip to sort out what they have been left with in their inheritance.

 

Maybe, vandalism, maybe not. What they don't say is what sort of vandalism. Have the locals employed a JCB to destabilise the lock walls?

 

Martyn

[Trento]

I had la chat with two CaRT maintenance men this morning, all light hearted banter, and sound Guys who know their jobs and workplace.

But " planned maintenance" is not in the trusts vocabulary. Reactive only..

[Keeping Up]

They say it "May be due to vandalism". That's just somebody trying to think of an excuse which can't be disproved and which covers their own arse!

[furnessvale]

They say it "May be due to vandalism". That's just somebody trying to think of an excuse which can't be disproved and which covers their own arse!

I passed through this lock just over a week ago and I cannot say I noticed anything amiss. It will be interesting to see what sort of vandalism occurred in less than a week to cause the whole lock wall to move.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[homer2911]

A void has appeared in a lock wall closing the Wolverhampton 21.

 

Another instance of a lock fail causing a canal to close.

 

Good old CaRT

 

Something goes wrong so someone must be responsible eh? You would seem to be a prime candidate for the "had an accident that wasn't your fault?" brand of litigation claimants

[Mick and Maggie]

Nightwatch is also right in as much that a lot of required repairs are the result of decades of neglect by British Waterways. Also, as was pointed out, the infrastructure is 250 years or more old.

 

Pete. The lock I imagine will have been rebuilt several times in the life of the canal. So as for age - it's a bit like Triggers broom - which has had four heads and three handles.

The transitional team are the same people who were in place during the years of neglect by British Waterways. A new name does not absolve the sins of the past.

 

regards

 

Mick

Something goes wrong so someone must be responsible eh? You would seem to be a prime candidate for the "had an accident that wasn't your fault?" brand of litigation claimants

 

Homer - Correct, someone is responsible - that's what we pay them for. Responsibility to ensure that the maintenance is carried out proactive - not reactive. Now as the boating season is cut back to eight months of the year due to normal stoppages. Additional curbs on an open navigation will always spoil someone's plans. How perceptive you are, having never met me and yet you are able to stereotype with consummate ease.

 

regards

 

Mick

[homer2911]

Pete. The lock I imagine will have been rebuilt several times in the life of the canal. So as for age - it's a bit like Triggers broom - which has had four heads and three handles.

The transitional team are the same people who were in place during the years of neglect by British Waterways. A new name does not absolve the sins of the past.

 

regards

 

Mick

What lock has been rebuilt several times in the life of a canal? For goodness sake! Let's start a campaign shall we? Let's force CaRT to rebuild every damn lock on the system to 21st Century standards - don't forget to carry out Risk Assessments - just in case its 200 year old structure fails. I feel sure that Mick and Maggie will have no objection to their licence fee being doubled or even trebled to cover the cost involved. Edited June 21, 2013 by homer2911

[MtB]

I'm not sure what preventative maintenance you expect them to have carried out on an apparently perfectly good lock wall to prevent this collapse.

 

 

MtB

[Starcoaster]

Geez, if they'd only hired those psychics like I said all along...

[Mick and Maggie]

I'm not sure what preventative maintenance you expect them to have carried out on an apparently perfectly good lock wall to prevent this collapse.

 

Mike - that's my point exactly - the reason the lock wall has failed is because it was not in a perfectly good condition. It was in a dangerous condition and on the point of failing. I bet a lot of people will now be paying more attention to lock walls that leak large amounts of water back into the lock. I was looking at one a few days ago, the lock was empty but water was pouring out of the lock tail wall. So it was getting in from above the top gate and passing behind the wall to exit into the lower pound. I did point it out to CaRT bankside staff.

 

Proactive preventative maintenance also includes inspection, Visible checks need to be backed upfrom time to time with technology from a simple sounding stick as used by water boards to locate leaks through to GPR technology where there is a doubt or a target date has been met. BWB and its sucessor CaRT still continue with under funding of maintenance on - only when its broke - will we fix it principal.

 

regards

 

Mick

[Keeping Up]

Geez, if they'd only hired those psychics like I said all along...

 

They'd have merely had more time to invent their excuses before the failure

[RLWP]

Geez, if they'd only hired those psychics like I said all along...

 

I knew you were going to say that

 

Richard

[homer2911]

 

Mike - that's my point exactly - the reason the lock wall has failed is because it was not in a perfectly good condition. It was in a dangerous condition and on the point of failing. I bet a lot of people will now be paying more attention to lock walls that leak large amounts of water back into the lock. I was looking at one a few days ago, the lock was empty but water was pouring out of the lock tail wall. So it was getting in from above the top gate and passing behind the wall to exit into the lower pound. I did point it out to CaRT bankside staff.

 

Proactive preventative maintenance also includes inspection, Visible checks need to be backed upfrom time to time with technology from a simple sounding stick as used by water boards to locate leaks through to GPR technology where there is a doubt or a target date has been met. BWB and its sucessor CaRT still continue with under funding of maintenance on - only when its broke - will we fix it principal.

 

regards

 

Mick

Happy to see everyone's boating costs double, or even treble, to pay for all this inspection, and for the complete rebuilding of any canal structure showing any slight signs of failure? A warm welcome awaits you in the real world.

Edited June 21, 2013 by homer2911

[AndrewIC]

Stoppage notice referred to recent(?) vandalism. Anyone know more? All I can think of is the lock being drained or flooded, although I can't picture lock 20 to remember whether the latter is a possibility.

[Ian Mac]

Pictures - taken with a 2/6 webcam (also out of focus) of the lock in question, as we went through on Wednesday morning. The only thing we noticed was the crap behind the bottom gate, which was stopping the downhill boat coming out of the lock, which we had to help clear, before they could escape and we could enter.

In the first picture I can see a crack behind the top coping stone, which could well be a major problem.

 

[Mick and Maggie]

Happy to see everyone's boating costs double, or even treble, to pay for all this inspection, and for the complete rebuilding of any canal structure showing any slight signs of failure? A warm welcome awaits you in the real world.

Homer. Preventative maintenance is always cheaper than a complete rebuild. Because insufficient maintenance is carried out (a method that CaRT use for saving money, presumably for a rainy day) it costs much more in the long run. 16% of existing assets or 1600 items at risk of catastrophic failure is not a good place to be. Boating costs are going up much faster than the rate of inflation and the maintenance backlog is still increasing. But then at the same time millions of pounds of our money are wasted on speculative investments - money that could have been better invested in preventative maintenance of the canal infrastructure.

In a perfect world all would be well, the rivers would run - the canals would have plenty of water, the silting up would be a thing of the past. Visitor moorings would be plentiful and lock gates would have no leaks. However, in the real world on the inland waterways, things are not idyllic. Vince Moran of CaRT wrote in Narrowboat World in "Condition of the waterways" about CaRT's corporate view and methods of counting, assessing the condition and then prioritising maintenance issues. I found this article gave some interesting insight and some idea of the methodology being used.

Vince wrote about a scoring mechanism where the state of the waterways was classified in a range A to E. (where A is the best condition and E is where there is a very real risk that the asset is close to failure) Principal at risk assets were classified as numbering 10,000. Ten years ago 30% or 3000 of the assets were at real risk of catastrophic failure. In ten years that number has fallen to 16% of assets or 1600 which are still at real risk of catastrophic failure.

Having 16% or 1600 of your most important structures in the poorest condition is still not a good place to be. One has to presume that in the next few years the numbers in D and E will continue to deteriorate. That the underfunded maintenance budget will remain the same in real terms. That the concerted effort to manage the identified ones at "real risk" continues. However, a number of assets that have been in the A,B and C categories over the last 10 years and have developed faults and conditions that have not been remedied. Some will deteriorate even further and a number of them will migrate into the D and E grouping.

You then get into a state where you will start to reach equilibrium and the the fall in numbers will taper off, and then reverse. Its at this point where the methodology has to take into account a more proactive "stitch in time" rather than the current only reactive maintenance. This will require a focus change and some increase in the maintenance expenditure on more than the highest risk parts of the network. Widening the focal point to include say category C as well as D and E issues. However, CaRT are never going to reach zero or even a more acceptable figure in the D or E category. If you are underfunding the maintenance and you know you are underfunding the maintenance then what happens when it all goes wrong and someone ends up brown bread. Some may argue that a fall of 14% in the numbers of "at real risk" is not good enough over a ten year period. That argument might well be instigated by a coroner, Health and Safety Executive and then settled by the courts. That's not going to be a cheap option in cash or lives. I think that what CaRT has achieved so far has some merit, but the more visible side of the maintenance backlog will still prevail and colour peoples expectations and perceptions.

Now that the recent canal breaches and lock walls failing have given the emergency fund a good kicking. Presumably, previously unidentified lock walls that fail will also fall into the remit of the emergency fund. What lies ahead? Ask yourself what will be cut to plug the funding gap so to speak. If a lock paddle is rusty, greasing and painting only the worst deep pitted rusty part and then ignoring the other is not good maintenance. Proactive inspection, problem identification, deterioration prevention all add up to a more cost effective form of maintenance. Not just waiting for the bank to crumble, or a lock wall to fall or any other type of catastrophic fail.

Its like the potholes in the road. Ignore them and don't fill in the holes when they first appear and then resurface the whole road when the problem deteriorates further. Which is the cheaper option?

Alternatively a more proactive scenario is when you take your car for an MOT. If the examiner identifies a fault he either issues an advisory notice which you should heed and take some preventative maintenance or he refuses to issue the certificate. Which just might save your life - I wonder what price you or your family would place upon that?

regards

Mick

[Tuscan]

A pro active approach in the good old days was a lengthsman who lived by the canal who walked his patch and knew it , he is presumably now redundant and homeless (like Atherstone) or part of a reactive team covering a wide area on a call out basis with little local knowledge. Meanwhile the volunteer with the data logger walks on.

 

Oh dear what a cynic I've become.

[Dyertribe]

I knew you were going to say that

 

Richard

Off topic, but two weeks ago we had a knock on the door from a lady who introduced herself as a psychic who was trying to find one of our neighbours who had booked her for a reading or somesuch...... now shouldn't she have KNOWN where's she was going, given her claimed powers?

 

Alyson

[bottle]

A pro active approach in the good old days was a lengthsman who lived by the canal who walked his patch and knew it , he is presumably now redundant and homeless (like Atherstone) or part of a reactive team covering a wide area on a call out basis with little local knowledge. Meanwhile the volunteer with the data logger walks on.

 

Oh dear what a cynic I've become.

 

I would say more of a realist.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Off topic, but two weeks ago we had a knock on the door from a lady who introduced herself as a psychic who was trying to find one of our neighbours who had booked her for a reading or somesuch...... now shouldn't she have KNOWN where's she was going, given her claimed powers?

 

Alyson

More off topic - many years ago as chair of a PTA, I announced at the school fete (over the P.A. system) that the fortune teller we had booked was unable to attend due to unforeseen circumstances. I was never allowed to live it down.

 

Back on topic, I hope that Richard Parry does turn up today and at least walks up the locks with John Sloan.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2013 by Allan(nb Albert)

[Keeping Up]

I hope Richard Parry understands the scale of the inconvenience that the stoppage may cause some people. For him it may be just a change in the route of a day out, for others it could be serious and expensive.