Tidal Thames Narrowboat rescue

[Karma Dreams]

Is this the same place where a tug was lost last year? I remember there was a situation where two tugs were towing / pushing a barge and swung out to far the pusher attempted to motor out of the dangerous situation and pushed the barge onto the towing vessel rolling it over. I think it then hit one of those yellow buoys and sank with the loss of the captain.

 

There is a MAIB report on it.

 

Just thinking that if a 'professional' tug crew ends up being pushed over then it must be a serious bit of current there.

Had to put the record straight here - the tug that was pushing the crane barge was ordered away. The tidal flow caught the crane barge and pulled the tug over sideways. The crew got off (one of whom is my cousin) but the engineer drowned as he couldn't get out :-(

My hubby is a retired Waterman & Lighterman and even he says he wouldnt dream of taking our nb to get into that situation... As he agrees with other posts here they are not designed for this.... and to do this is 'complete madness'

[magnetman]

I am referring to the Chiefton accident. I assume you are as well ?

 

I have read the MAIB report and in section 1.3.5 it seems to imply what I stated.

 

If I have misinterpreted it and it is out of order I am happy to amend or edit it.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Just spotted a more detailed news release from the RNLI:

 

http://rnli.org/NewsCentre/Pages/London-lifeboat-crew-launched-to-boats-pinned-to-mooring-barge-by-strong-tide.aspx

[Paringa]

I locked out with another boat yesterday from Limehouse which did not carry VHF or phoned VTS notifying them of their passage - I won't name names. They were oblivious to the arch closures on a couple of bridges - only one arch open at Blackfriars so blind faith nothing heading down as they head up, and oblivious to VTS getting hot under the collar with them, although i suspect they will/did get a phone call. As it was, yesterday morning pre clipper the Tideway was glorious, quiet, and flat as a pancake! It was a lovely trip...It is rarely like that though.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Paringa

[luctor et emergo]

That wassn't hairy, some people seem to really either get scared by anything other than a still pond like surface, or try and attach mythical dangerous qualities to the thames.

 

A boat lost propulsion. The current pushed against some other boats. A small boat, with a big big, engine, came to it's resque....

 

Well done all.. As for heroics, I prefere the feats of the liveboat crews who go out to sea.

[Paringa]

Sure... I was just making a point about protocol, not commenting on that rescue or the work of our Lifeboats.

[Keeping Up]

Just spotted a more detailed news release from the RNLI:

 

http://rnli.org/NewsCentre/Pages/London-lifeboat-crew-launched-to-boats-pinned-to-mooring-barge-by-strong-tide.aspx

 

The report mentions "reports that a canal barge and a cabin cruiser had gotten into difficulty"..Is the word "gotten" in the UK English dictionary? It sounds horribly American to me, although I see that my UK-English spell-checker permits it.

[Bee]

There can be a lot of debris in the river, when I went down on a very high tide the river had picked up all sorts from above the usual tide line, I coasted through a few patches out of gear but still picked up some plastic crap, it`s not that the river is especially hazardous but a problem can turn into an emergency if you don`t have a plan B, e.g if I miss the invisible Brentford turn I will turn the boat this way and not that way, and know that the anchor is not attached to a big heap of knotted rope tangled up with the garden chairs, etc. etc., keep to the rules and as an aside the river can be v. shallow close in to the edges on a falling tide, don` ask how I know.

[NigelMoore]

Just spotted a more detailed news release from the RNLI:

 

http://rnli.org/NewsCentre/Pages/London-lifeboat-crew-launched-to-boats-pinned-to-mooring-barge-by-strong-tide.aspx

 

The News Release properly records: “I am most grateful to the police who helped escort both vessels back to Limehouse Marina, as well as the lockmaster who was extremely helpful in agreeing to open up the lock out of normal locking timings.”

 

This prompts a comment on an issue that has bothered me and others for some time. I have found that the Limehouse lock-keepers are truly excellent, and even at Brentford, I have been able to get passage through the locks ‘out of hours’ without notice on occasional emergencies. However, this ought never to be something that needs commending – there should be no such thing as “normal locking timings”; access to the safe-haven above the locks at these locations should be limited only by the state of the tide, not by “normal” working hours.

 

It is all the more problematic at Brentford with one of the lock cottages having recently been sold at auction [i am presuming that Sam has moved on, and that no waterways staff will be resident alongside any more] – if emergencies arise and no-one is physically present to be roused up to open the Lock, then the situation is dire.

 

I speak of emergencies, because that is in context with this thread and is the most obvious illustration as to the importance of having these locks manned at all times – but the fact is that the authority are legally obliged to run these locks on tidal waters for the improvement of navigation not as an obstruction-at-will. They are obliged to maintain them available to the public 24/7, and it is a criminal offence to restrict ordinary access to “normal locking timings”. That applies without question to Brentford; the situation with the Limehouse Cut and Bow Creek may have additional legal niceties I have not explored.

 

In order to present a balanced picture: since the locks at Brentford have been manned by volunteers boats have been coming and going at all hours of the day and night, in pitch darkness or not. Presumably by prior arrangement of course, but it is good that there are those making themselves available for the purpose.

[magnetman]

are you offering to lock me off the river at 4am next thursday if I require assistance?

[Detling]

I was in Dover today on a Sea Safari in a RIB and the driver was the coxwain of that rescue shown in the first post. in answer to the question how much power, the answer is 875 HP inboard diesel. puts my 42 HP in it's place doesn't it.

[WJM]

since the locks at Brentford have been manned by volunteers boats have been coming and going at all hours of the day and night, in pitch darkness or not. Presumably by prior arrangement of course, but it is good that there are those making themselves available for the purpose.

 

Thames Locks manned by volunteers, and outside of the four hour tide-top window? - are you sure?

[blackrose]

No of course not but it is how you deal with these things thatmatters. It is also very likely that the boat was underprepared, if prepared at all for this venture especially as it was seemingly recovering an other equally hapless(hippy? boat. Narrowboats are totally unsuitable for this type of boating, wrong hull shape and generally wrong or underpowered engine but most of all wrong 'driver'. You need bags of experience and brains to take on a tidal river severly lacking in this case it appears.

 

I'm not sure about bags of experience. I haven't been down as far as Greenwich, but I've been up and down the tideway between Teddington and Limehouse a few times on my widebeam including doing the downstream turn into Limehouse twice, and I wouldn't say I had bags of experience. I just read up on it and followed the published guidance.

Edited May 29, 2013 by blackrose

[Doug Scullery]

875 HP inboard diesel

Wow

[Tim Lewis]

I was in Dover today on a Sea Safari in a RIB and the driver was the coxwain of that rescue shown in the first post. in answer to the question how much power, the answer is 875 HP inboard diesel. puts my 42 HP in it's place doesn't it.

 

I think he might have been having you on, according to the RNLI web site the Tower Pier Type E boats are poweered by twin 240hp diesels powering waterjets:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-class_lifeboat

 

Tim

[Doodlebug]

I had to go to Gravesend marina to collect a stove I bought on ebay. I was amazed at how many narrowboats were there. I spoke to one person and he said he had done the trip many times.

 

Crazy in my opinion!

 

He had been round to medway too.

[Black Ibis]

I had to go to Gravesend marina to collect a stove I bought on ebay. I was amazed at how many narrowboats were there. I spoke to one person and he said he had done the trip many times.

 

Crazy in my opinion!

 

He had been round to medway too.

We did Gravesend-Limehouse today.

 

It was deceptively easy and stress free.

[luctor et emergo]

It's a miracle that these narrow boats float at all.

 

When it comes to buoyancy and defying the laws of physics, take a look at ro-ro ferries, or better still, cruise liners. Well, apart from Italian ones perhaps...

[NigelMoore]

 

Thames Locks manned by volunteers, and outside of the four hour tide-top window? - are you sure?

 

 

Not necessarily outside of the tidal widow [though the ‘window’ is not a constant 2 hours either side of top, and access is possible for longer times on the higher tides] but outside of the imposed working hours of 9-5 or whatever. The tidal window shifts around the clock regardless of working times.

 

And yes I am sure; I’ve had boats going past me in both directions in the pitch black of very late nights and early mornings [some without nav lights]. Whether those manning the locks were BW employees or ‘civilian’ volunteers I can’t be sure, but they are all volunteers at those times!

 

I can’t remember it happening in earlier years, apart from the time I came through from the Barrier around 10 one evening, and had to prise the lock keeper from the bar at the Brewery Tap. He was perfectly willing though, despite the interruption to his drinking. Things changed after he left in the mid-nineties.

[WJM]

And yes I am sure; I’ve had boats going past me in both directions in the pitch black of very late nights and early mornings [some without nav lights]. Whether those manning the locks were BW employees or ‘civilian’ volunteers I can’t be sure, but they are all volunteers at those times!

I dont think you are right there, best I know - Thames Lock is always operated by BW/CaRT Staff, never by volunteers. Outside of normal working hours the lock can be booked but it will be operated by a paid staff member working paid overtime.

 

Operating Thames Lock is a bit more involved than most other locks - as well as the physical challenges of it being very tidal, there is also the legal challenge of it being a gateway to the canal system. The professional lock-keepers sometimes have to deal with unlicensed (and undocumented) craft trying to make illegal access. I cant see that task being left to volunteers.

[NigelMoore]

I dont think you are right there, best I know - Thames Lock is always operated by BW/CaRT Staff, never by volunteers. Outside of normal working hours the lock can be booked but it will be operated by a paid staff member working paid overtime.

 

Operating Thames Lock is a bit more involved than most other locks - as well as the physical challenges of it being very tidal, there is also the legal challenge of it being a gateway to the canal system. The professional lock-keepers sometimes have to deal with unlicensed (and undocumented) craft trying to make illegal access. I cant see that task being left to volunteers.

 

I phrased it badly – I meant that even BW/CART staff are ‘volunteering’, if they are working outside of their normal working hours.

 

There is no such thing as illegal access through the Thames Locks, there is only illegal refusal of access. Consequently I would share your concern about manning with non-professionals – for perhaps opposite reasons.

 

We did Gravesend-Limehouse today.

 

It was deceptively easy and stress free.

 

Presumably this was with the flotilla of narrowboats doing the trip, accompanied by the safety-tug "Major" in case anyone ran into difficulties?

[WJM]

There is no such thing as illegal access through the Thames Locks, there is only illegal refusal of access. Consequently I would share your concern about manning with non-professionals – for perhaps opposite reasons.

 

Not sure what you mean - if a license, and by extension BSS and insurance, are required then they are required. It is not exactly a grey area. And refusing a boat entry thus leaving them out in the Brent Creek is not endangering them, it is quite safe outside the lock.

 

I am reminded of the unlicensed boat that was refused access at Brentford a few years ago while trying to get onto the Paddington Arm. The turned around and went up the Thames, rumoured with a short visitor license to get through Teddington, then a night-time bandit run up to Oxford, onto BW water via the unmanned Isis Lock, and ultimately down the GU to London. The things people will do!

[Mike Todd]

Are you suggesting, as an extension of your case against BW, that any boat or boatmen can gain access through Thames Lock and that no licence or insurance is needed or that the boatman needs to be sober and in control of the boat? That is, CRT cannot prevent access under any circumstances?

There is no such thing as illegal access through the Thames Locks, there is only illegal refusal of access. Consequently I would share your concern about manning with non-professionals – for perhaps opposite reasons.

[luctor et emergo]

Here we go..

 

Make room on the sofa, I'll bring the popcorn

[NigelMoore]

Here we go..

 

Make room on the sofa, I'll bring the popcorn

 

Beautifully defused.

 

I was all set to lay out the relevant facts all over again, but you intervened just in time and gave me a good laugh at the image evoked, so I shan’t – it is, after all, hardly in my interest, to either promote greater boater understanding of the situation here, or to assist the authority in dealing with it.

 

And on such a sunny day I belong outdoors digging out Thames mud down at the Hollows, not stuck indoors in front of a laptop. Thanks for the rescue!