Proposed Marina Onley

[Ally]

I have just spotted a notice (on FB) asking boaters to support a 'demo-rally' against The proposed Onley marina. I'm surprised this hasn't already come up here before.

The notice was originally from a local area Marina, but shared out by 'A.N.Other marina'

The demo is because they believe the 'MONSTER MARINA' is too big for the area, because it is in an already heavily populated area. Whilst I can understand that point of view, there is also the point that a heavily populated boat area may need another Marina to provide moorings off the canal.

(yes, I am aware of 'that' other unfinished marina nearby)

It struck me that I have heard about this via 2 other marinas however, one in the immediate area, and another that may feel threatened even though it is at a distance.

How have others heard about this demo?

Do boaters in (and out of) the area have particular feelings about it one way or the other?

Is it a 'marina jealousy' issue or a general feeling in the area?

The demo appears to be supported by some prominent people, so I wonder what others think.

 

If desired, I can copy/paste the notice.

 

(On a purely personal level, I would like to see less of the big new marinas, and more small community marinas, but that doesn't always suit the areas or other people)

 

Your thoughts?

[Starcoaster]

I've heard about it because I moor at Braunston and Tim is one of, if not the main, opposers to it.

You'll be asked to sign the petition if you go into the office, and there's banner up on the bridge... And a protest (not sure who is going) planned at the new marina site this coming Sunday with moorers here being encouraged to attend, by boat if possible.

 

I personally think that opening more marinas is often detrimental as a general rule, due to the policy of getting rid of surrounding online moorings when they open. Not everyone wants to moor in a marina, and it reduces the options open to those who don't.

[the grinch]

so long as it frees up the towpaths then why object? the more marinas that open the lower the price of off line moorings will go!

[dmtarry]

so long as it frees up the towpaths then why object? the more marinas that open the lower the price of off line moorings will go!

 

 

I am not in or aware of the direct issues in that area, though if the area is congested with boats moored on the canals then extra moorings may be beneficial ? You would think that it will ultimately create more competition in both the quality of moorings available and price paid to obtain moorings? There seems to be many members commenting on C'Ming and surely far more availability is going to have to be provided if we are chasing CMers into paid moorings.

 

[Ally]

I should have done this as a poll, shouldn't I?!

[Smelly]

I should have done this as a poll, shouldn't I?!

 

Is it too late to sort one?

[boingy]

We're in the area and we support the new marina. The main objectors are the other marinas, afraid of the competition!

 

There will still be plenty of online moorings.

[MtB]

I have just spotted a notice (on FB) asking boaters to support a 'demo-rally' against The proposed Onley marina. I'm surprised this hasn't already come up here before.

The notice was originally from a local area Marina, but shared out by 'A.N.Other marina'

The demo is because they believe the 'MONSTER MARINA' is too big for the area, because it is in an already heavily populated area. Whilst I can understand that point of view, there is also the point that a heavily populated boat area may need another Marina to provide moorings off the canal.

(yes, I am aware of 'that' other unfinished marina nearby)

It struck me that I have heard about this via 2 other marinas however, one in the immediate area, and another that may feel threatened even though it is at a distance.

How have others heard about this demo?

Do boaters in (and out of) the area have particular feelings about it one way or the other?

Is it a 'marina jealousy' issue or a general feeling in the area?

The demo appears to be supported by some prominent people, so I wonder what others think.

 

If desired, I can copy/paste the notice.

 

(On a purely personal level, I would like to see less of the big new marinas, and more small community marinas, but that doesn't always suit the areas or other people)

 

Your thoughts?

 

The whole thing is a bit bemusing and self-contradictorary.

 

Firstly, boaters on the whole seem to welcome the downward pressure yet another marina brings to prices. Marina owners have been having boaters over on mooring charges for the past few years but now the boot is on the other foot. This seems to be a common point of view.

 

Secondly, a mass protest at the site with loads of boats is bound to provoke an instinctive response from uninformed journalists, members of the public etc "blimey there are a lot of boats clogging up the cut here, I can see the need for a marina!"

 

Thirdly, Posh Tim is possibly, in my personal opinion, objecting mainly because he can forsee 30% of his moorings income bleeding away as soon as it opens....

 

Fourthly, as a hobby boater, I welcome the resulting 10% reduction in online moorings in the area in accordance with CRT policy when new off-line sites open. Miles of hobby boats moored on line are a pest, frankly, and ought to be in a marina, although I can see the point of, and support, liveaboards having an online mooring.

 

 

Mike

[grahamjnewman]

Tim is a nice guy who has made Braunston Marina the premier Marina in the area but with premium mooring fees - currently £2800+ for 57 feet - some of the facilities at Braunston are dated - the washing area shares the same room as the pump out pump - the smell is not pleasant - it would take a lot for us to move Marinas but will have to take a look at anything close by - not to save money but just to get better facilities - Tim's campaign has merit but he does need to look at what he is providing to his loyal clients for the premium prices he is charging.

[MtB]

Tim is a nice guy who has made Braunston Marina the premier Marina in the area but with premium mooring fees - currently £2800+ for 57 feet - some of the facilities at Braunston are dated - the washing area shares the same room as the pump out pump - the smell is not pleasant - it would take a lot for us to move Marinas but will have to take a look at anything close by - not to save money but just to get better facilities - Tim's campaign has merit but he does need to look at what he is providing to his loyal clients for the premium prices he is charging.

 

I agree, and Braunston's policy of turning OFF the water supply throughout the whole of the winter period is pretty boater UNfriendly and done entirely for the convenience of the company. The marina I'm in only turns the water off during freezing weather.

 

If the 250 boats in Braunston are all paying £2800 a year, I reckon Braunston could afford to install trace heating to keep the pipes from freezing even in subzero periods...

[gaggle]

so long as it frees up the towpaths then why object? the more marinas that open the lower the price of off line moorings will go!

 

 

Has the opening of new marina,s brought down mooring prices in reality , i only know of my own costs but reading threads stating that C&RT are not letting the market set rates , hard to tell.

[Magic Potion]

Can the area take another marina? You've got Ventnor Farm and Calcutt. Then there are Napton Marina and Wigrams Turn,

Barby(?) and Hillmorton. The other side of Braunston Tunnel there are two below Watford Locks and that's just the ones I can think of. That's a lot of berths in a small area.

[dmtarry]

Can the area take another marina? You've got Ventnor Farm and Calcutt. Then there are Napton Marina and Wigrams Turn,

Barby(?) and Hillmorton. The other side of Braunston Tunnel there are two below Watford Locks and that's just the ones I can think of. That's a lot of berths in a small area.

 

 

You would assume that the company investing in the new Marina have researched this issue after all they are going to pump a considerable amount of money into the venture!

 

You would think that they should be best placed to evaluate this.

[ditchcrawler]

I have just spotted a notice (on FB) asking boaters to support a 'demo-rally' against The proposed Onley marina. I'm surprised this hasn't already come up here before.

The notice was originally from a local area Marina, but shared out by 'A.N.Other marina'

The demo is because they believe the 'MONSTER MARINA' is too big for the area, because it is in an already heavily populated area. Whilst I can understand that point of view, there is also the point that a heavily populated boat area may need another Marina to provide moorings off the canal.

(yes, I am aware of 'that' other unfinished marina nearby)

It struck me that I have heard about this via 2 other marinas however, one in the immediate area, and another that may feel threatened even though it is at a distance.

How have others heard about this demo?

Do boaters in (and out of) the area have particular feelings about it one way or the other?

Is it a 'marina jealousy' issue or a general feeling in the area?

The demo appears to be supported by some prominent people, so I wonder what others think.

 

If desired, I can copy/paste the notice.

 

(On a purely personal level, I would like to see less of the big new marinas, and more small community marinas, but that doesn't always suit the areas or other people)

 

Your thoughts?

I think the other marinas are just scared of losing customers . A bit like Tesco and the Co op saying we don't want Morrisons .

 

Tim is a nice guy who has made Braunston Marina the premier Marina in the area but with premium mooring fees - currently £2800+ for 57 feet - some of the facilities at Braunston are dated - the washing area shares the same room as the pump out pump - the smell is not pleasant - it would take a lot for us to move Marinas but will have to take a look at anything close by - not to save money but just to get better facilities - Tim's campaign has merit but he does need to look at what he is providing to his loyal clients for the premium prices he is charging.

It's not that long ago he was battling with the planners to enlarge his marina nor since he was planning another marina opposite where Wigrams Turn marina was built.

[the grinch]

Has the opening of new marina,s brought down mooring prices in reality , i only know of my own costs but reading threads stating that C&RT are not letting the market set rates , hard to tell.

 

no idea either on this but if an area becomes saturated then surely prices will fall? in my experience (work) I have had to keep prices down to win work as i have twice as many competing against me to what i had say 5 years ago.

[Ally]

competition can only be a good thing from the boater point of view I would think.

I wonder if the rally will be mainly other marina owners then? Perhaps they can ask themselves en mass, what it is they need to change to keep/encourage their moorers. It seems just having a body of water and some pontoons isn't always enough. Certainly in some areas there are marinas with waiting lists whilst others stand half empty. You'd have to ask yourself why.

[boathunter]

If I were building/siting a marina as a business, I wouldn't do it in the middle of nowhere and just hope people will turn up and use it. They obviously hope to take custom from existing marinas by offering new facilities and it'll work from the sounds of it. A little bit cheaper, or about the same but all new and shiney will surely attract. Sounds like they'll be on a winner merely by offering all year round water supply...

 

It's a case of least risk - The best place to open a hair-dresser/takeaway/marina is opposite another hair-dresser/takeaway/marina because that's where the customers are to be found.

 

The other marinas are right to be scared. If I were them I'd be investing in updating their facilities before it's too late. People who move won't come back afterwards just because they're spruced the place up, but they might not see the move descision as so clear-cut if it, well - isn't?

 

Posted at the same time as Ally -

Edited October 3, 2012 by boathunter

[Allan(nb Albert)]

You would assume that the company investing in the new Marina have researched this issue after all they are going to pump a considerable amount of money into the venture!

 

You would think that they should be best placed to evaluate this.

 

I am aware of three planning applications on 'green belt' near to where I moor that have been turned down with 'lack of need' being a contributory factor. In at least two of the cases objectors pointed to the number of empty berths in the Braunston Pound area.

 

Unfortunately, companies have taken advice from BW's new marina unit which, in the past, has supplied them with information that is completely out of date.

[CV32]

As someone has previously mentioned in the thread, the company applying to build this new marina will be investing substantial amounts of money and would not be doing so if they considered it risky.

 

I personally think that they should be allowed to build the marina and they will fail or succeed on their merits, and it may result in a rebalance of prices in the area. Let the market dictate !

Edited October 4, 2012 by CV32

[robdalej]

Has the opening of new marina,s brought down mooring prices in reality , i only know of my own costs but reading threads stating that C&RT are not letting the market set rates , hard to tell.

No I dont think it has. In my opinion it has, in some respects increased the price off on line moorings, especially if these are owned by , say farmers who see what boaters are paying in local marinas them pitch their mooring slightly lower to reflect the lack of facilities.A few months ago I enquired about such a mooring with a local farmer and was quoted amonthly figure of £185 for a 50 ft boat so this would equate to £2220 p.a . Not far off a marina price

[c c]

We're in the area and we support the new marina. The main objectors are the other marinas, afraid of the competition!

 

There will still be plenty of online moorings.

I object to the false info they publish about congestion at Hillmorton, when most of this summer we have had only one of each pair of locks operating and it never got as congested as it used to be. The only time I have experienced congestion in that area is when Mr Coghlon has one of his famous gatherings which take over the entire canal.

[john6767]

No I dont think it has. In my opinion it has, in some respects increased the price off on line moorings, especially if these are owned by , say farmers who see what boaters are paying in local marinas them pitch their mooring slightly lower to reflect the lack of facilities.A few months ago I enquired about such a mooring with a local farmer and was quoted a monthly figure of £185 for a 50 ft boat so this would equate to £2220 p.a . Not far off a marina price

 

You can get a 50ft mooring in a marina in the area for less than that. We pay a premium, in that we moor our 50ft boat on a pontoon that you can put a 60ft boat on, and ours is still only a bit more than that. So if they want that sort of money for an online mooring with little facilities, then I would have said its more for choice than saving money that you would go online.

 

 

 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

As someone has previously mentioned in the thread, the company applying to build this new marina will be investing substantial amounts of money and would not be doing so if they considered it risky.

 

I personally think that they should be allowed to build the marina and they will fail or succeed on their merits, and it may result in a rebalance of prices in the area. Let the market dictate !

 

The problem is that the market does not dictate. BW/CART fixes prices at the bottom end of the market (i.e. online moorings) by having reserves which it has been increasing.

 

There is also the cost of development that does not allow prices to be reduced and CART's NAA which charges based on a full marina.

 

As to failing or succeeding on merit, I moor yards away from a 20 berth marina development which was abandoned over a year ago leaving a shallow excavation and spoil tips on what is green belt land.

 

It is currently up for sale but has no interest.

 

I object to the false info they publish about congestion at Hillmorton, when most of this summer we have had only one of each pair of locks operating and it never got as congested as it used to be. The only time I have experienced congestion in that area is when Mr Coghlon has one of his famous gatherings which take over the entire canal.

 

I had a two hour delay at Hillmorten last year and a twenty minute delay a couple of weeks ago. However, generally I find if all locks are in operation then no delay exists.

[matty40s]

I do wonder if the renovation work to the two old bridges in the area has been subsidised somewhet by the prospective developers.

 

I think there are enough marinas in the small area of the Oxford/GU midland section, a new one at Hawkesbury makes sense though.

[KenK]

No I dont think it has. In my opinion it has, in some respects increased the price off on line moorings, especially if these are owned by , say farmers who see what boaters are paying in local marinas them pitch their mooring slightly lower to reflect the lack of facilities.A few months ago I enquired about such a mooring with a local farmer and was quoted amonthly figure of £185 for a 50 ft boat so this would equate to £2220 p.a . Not far off a marina price

 

That's more than I'm paying for a 60 ft boat in an excellent marina with all the facilities.

 

Ken