single handling locks

[Chris Pink]

. It is fortunate perhaps that because he leaves the gates open he has a speed advantage and is always far enough ahead to be out of earshot of SWMBO's verbal opinion!

 

And her opinion of locks that are half full because some idiot shut the gates and left to their own devices they started to empty / fill ( which takes far more time than closing a gate)?

Edited January 26, 2013 by Chris Pink

[Jerra]

Surely if any lock starts to empty or fill with both gates closed, keeping both closed must at least part of the time be saving water.

 

If an empty lock starts to fill water is leaking through the top gate faster than the bottom so if the bottom gate had been left open the loss of water would (particularly at quiet times) be greater than if both gates were closed.

[Chris Pink]

Then a boater comes along and lets it out again. Net gain: 0

[chazzy]

Then a boater comes along and lets it out again. Net gain: 0

 

Back to the 50 50 rule, depends if the next boat is going up or down the lock.

[furnessvale]

Isn't that strange. You must be very unpopular at rallies or near hire centres where numerous boats are travelling in one direction behind you!

Presumably he will only be unpopular with the FIRST boat following him:-)

It never bothers me that I have to reset locks that are closed, or open gates which have been closed when the locks are in my favour. It is part of the territory, but SWMBO who will not steer and does most of the locks really detests the lone boater going down ahead leaving every lock open when it is clear that there is no traffic in the other direction and we are not only closing gates but starting to reset locks for boats we know are behind us. It is fortunate perhaps that because he leaves the gates open he has a speed advantage and is always far enough ahead to be out of earshot of SWMBO's verbal opinion!

 

 

Exactly my point in an earlier post. Single handed, I can close all gates if you want but a two handed boat will catch up to me and then be queuing.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[chazzy]

Exactly my point in an earlier post. Single handed, I can close all gates if you want but a two handed boat will catch up to me and then be queuing.

 

At which point I would offer my help, when i'm single handed I don't take it for granted that others would want to help me.

[Chris Pink]

If I come across an open gate, after thinking 'o good-ho' as you do, I would cruise straight in. A crewed boat, in my experience, will likely faff around letting crew off before going in, even though it would still be easier to go straight into the lock.

 

Generalisation I know but backed by observation.

[furnessvale]

Exactly my point in an earlier post. Single handed, I can close all gates if you want but a two handed boat will catch up to me and then be queuing.

 

At which point I would offer my help, when i'm single handed I don't take it for granted that others would want to help me.

 

They aren't helping me, they are helping themselves if they want to get em ahead.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[FadeToScarlet]

Here's a thought. You're on a pair of boats, and you're two handed- motor steerer and butty steerer. The butty is bought up the lock by the butty steerer, and as it's a long pound the 70' snubber is put on the butty and the motor draws it out of the lock.

 

How does the butty steerer shut the gates?

[Radiomariner]

And her opinion of locks that are half full because some idiot shut the gates and left to their own devices they started to empty / fill ( which takes far more time than closing a gate)?

Not accurate. Closing a gate and filling or emptying a entire lock and opening a gate again takes longer and more effort than than setting a half full lock and opening a gate. depends on direction of travel but paddles on a half full lock are easier than on a full lock. You might not notice, but SWMBO who is over 70 does.

 

Presumably he will only be unpopular with the FIRST boat following him:-)

 

 

Exactly my point in an earlier post. Single handed, I can close all gates if you want but a two handed boat will catch up to me and then be queuing.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Does queing matter? Only to the intollerably impatient. Also, if people behind catch up and help by closing the gates for the boat in front of them then the speed of transit through the locks are restored.

 

If I come across an open gate, after thinking 'o good-ho' as you do, I would cruise straight in. A crewed boat, in my experience, will likely faff around letting crew off before going in, even though it would still be easier to go straight into the lock.

 

Generalisation I know but backed by observation.

 

Yes I agree. certainly my reaction when locking down. However, in addition to refusing to steer into locks SWMBO (Now 70) will not climb ladders up the lock sides, and I do not blame her, must drop off first, and to add to that she will not jump a wide gap, jump from the bow (Thats because of the boat design, high prow) or get off when the boat is moving. We still manage to be the boat behind helping with the gates for the one in front much of the time.

 

They aren't helping me, they are helping themselves if they want to get em ahead.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

Their intentions do not matter. They are still helping. And you should appreciate that, especially if they let you get down into your boat before they opened the gates for you.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Radiomariner

[furnessvale]

 

Their intentions do not matter. They are still helping. And you should appreciate that, especially if they let you get down into your boat before they opened the gates for you.

 

Don't get me wrong. I am grateful and I always thank those concerned. Perhaps I am thinking of the odd time that, having been caught by a fast boat 4 or 6 handed, I have let them by only to find at the next lock that they haven't even lifted a back paddle for me.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Radiomariner]

Don't get me wrong. I am grateful and I always thank those concerned. Perhaps I am thinking of the odd time that, having been caught by a fast boat 4 or 6 handed, I have let them by only to find at the next lock that they haven't even lifted a back paddle for me.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

Well yes, there are people like that I;m afraid/ It would annoy me also. However, I try to remember that I am enjoying myself and as I think I said earlier, its all part of the parcel, I usually stop seething after an hour or two!

[Skye]

Surely if any lock starts to empty or fill with both gates closed, keeping both closed must at least part of the time be saving water.

 

If an empty lock starts to fill water is leaking through the top gate faster than the bottom so if the bottom gate had been left open the loss of water would (particularly at quiet times) be greater than if both gates were closed.

Here we go again dispelling the simplistic view to this debate on leaving gates open. Jerra you are completely correct

 

Leakage through the top gate is in direct proportion to the size and amount of leak points multiplied by the pressure subjected too them (size of the pound above). With the bottom gate left open the flow out would remain a constant until the water levels equalised and the pressure reduced to zero, ie the pound was empty.

 

By closing the bottom gate the pressure drop on the top gate is rapidly reduced as the lock chamber becomes an integral part of the upper pound and the pressure level drops to zero again. (This occurs at different water levels for different locks).

 

Obviously the same applies the bottom gate and the calculation needs to be done again for this gate, and subsequent ones in a flight.

 

The waterways are fascinating and offer a lot of thought provoking events.

 

The only way round the leaks, and here is something I'm sure we can all agree, is proper maintenance of the gates.

[Tuscan]

Here we go again dispelling the simplistic view to this debate on leaving gates open. Jerra you are completely correct

 

Leakage through the top gate is in direct proportion to the size and amount of leak points multiplied by the pressure subjected too them (size of the pound above). With the bottom gate left open the flow out would remain a constant until the water levels equalised and the pressure reduced to zero, ie the pound was empty.

 

By closing the bottom gate the pressure drop on the top gate is rapidly reduced as the lock chamber becomes an integral part of the upper pound and the pressure level drops to zero again. (This occurs at different water levels for different locks).

 

Obviously the same applies the bottom gate and the calculation needs to be done again for this gate, and subsequent ones in a flight.

 

The waterways are fascinating and offer a lot of thought provoking events.

 

The only way round the leaks, and here is something I'm sure we can all agree, is proper maintenance of the gates.

 

 

I think this assumes the bottom gate doesn't leak...?

[Mike Tee]

Don't get me wrong. I am grateful and I always thank those concerned. Perhaps I am thinking of the odd time that, having been caught by a fast boat 4 or 6 handed, I have let them by only to find at the next lock that they haven't even lifted a back paddle for me.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Could well be inexperience. They might feel it to be wrong to lift a paddle if there is not actually a boat waiting to come in. Its been drilled into them all gates shut and all paddles down.

Maybe as you let them through, just suggest they lift the paddle as they leave the next lock.(Should we also mention which end of the lock the paddle is to be lifted!).

[Skye]

I think this assumes the bottom gate doesn't leak...?

 

From my own post -

 

"Obviously the same applies the bottom gate and the calculation needs to be done again for this gate, and subsequent ones in a flight."

[furnessvale]

Could well be inexperience. They might feel it to be wrong to lift a paddle if there is not actually a boat waiting to come in. Its been drilled into them all gates shut and all paddles down.

Maybe as you let them through, just suggest they lift the paddle as they leave the next lock.(Should we also mention which end of the lock the paddle is to be lifted!).

 

Yes, I have asked but still not got the lifted paddle. I have no doubt they are doing things by numbers, as does the occasional boat (coming the other way) that shuts gates in your face as you approach because that is "what they have been told to do".

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Paul C]

Here we go again dispelling the simplistic view to this debate on leaving gates open. Jerra you are completely correct

 

Leakage through the top gate is in direct proportion to the size and amount of leak points multiplied by the pressure subjected too them (size of the pound above). With the bottom gate left open the flow out would remain a constant until the water levels equalised and the pressure reduced to zero, ie the pound was empty.

 

By closing the bottom gate the pressure drop on the top gate is rapidly reduced as the lock chamber becomes an integral part of the upper pound and the pressure level drops to zero again. (This occurs at different water levels for different locks).

 

Obviously the same applies the bottom gate and the calculation needs to be done again for this gate, and subsequent ones in a flight.

 

The waterways are fascinating and offer a lot of thought provoking events.

 

The only way round the leaks, and here is something I'm sure we can all agree, is proper maintenance of the gates.

 

 

What grade did you achieve at O level or GCSE Physics? Because there's some serious errors in the above.

[Chris Pink]

....nd to add to that she will not jump a wide gap, jump from the bow (Thats because of the boat design, high prow) or get off when the boat is moving.

 

I am in total accord. I don't think anyone should jump off a boat ( except in an urgency) one should always step.

 

And I apologise to Mrs Mariner if my actions annoy. I hope it is some comfort to her that her procedure annoys me when it affects me.

 

....but only a bit, as you say, boating is fun.

[Keeping Up]

I am in total accord. I don't think anyone should jump off a boat ( except in an urgency) one should always step.

 

And I apologise to Mrs Mariner if my actions annoy. I hope it is some comfort to her that her procedure annoys me when it affects me.

 

....but only a bit, as you say, boating is fun.

 

And I insist that nobody gets of the bow of my boat either, until I have brought it to a standstill and said "OK" to them, because if someone stepped into the gap between the bank and the moving boat I would not know untiI it was too late.

[Chris Pink]

I generally let people off the back if I'm not stopping because it means the boat is pointing the right way.

 

Obviously the canal is not always deep enough for this.

[owen]

I can see the argument for leaving the gate open, i do get it, but a uniformed approach is fair for everyone, and shutting the gate is etiquette, not yours, you do as you wish bcos you have your theory. I can live with it, I have a nice time anyway, and the selfishness of some small minority of boaters will not bother me.Single handed is a reason for you not wanting to help other people maybe, or maybe thats the reason your single handed lol.

hi tim not wanting to sound like im kissing you know what but you will find that if you are ever having problems you will be glad of someone like carl who will always go out of his own way to help any boater thats in trouble he also has a great deal of experience on canals and is well worth listening to then as he says then adapt it to suit yourself .

[luctor et emergo]

hi tim not wanting to sound like im kissing you know what but you will find that if you are ever having problems you will be glad of someone like carl who will always go out of his own way to help any boater thats in trouble he also has a great deal of experience on canals and is well worth listening to then as he says then adapt it to suit yourself .

 

 

Punctuation

 

As an aside, as a very regular single handed boater, may Iadd my opinion!

 

Just get on with it. Some locks rre easy, some a re hard.... such is life, get over it,deal with it, and move on

[Skye]

What grade did you achieve at O level or GCSE Physics? Because there's some serious errors in the above.

 

The grades I achieved at levels that did not exist when I was at school are totally irrelevant to this debate.

 

If there are serious errors then please explain and I will be educated and will learn from them.

[Skye]

Punctuation

 

As an aside, as a very regular single handed boater, may Iadd my opinion!

 

Just get on with it. Some locks rre easy, some a re hard.... such is life, get over it,deal with it, and move on

LOL Luctor that is the spirit, there was one post on here that talked about opening paddles for next boat along, and being respectful and helping others, I'll keep looking back till I find it, but in the mean time if you find it give it a tick and let me know the post number.

 

Surely boating is about enjoying the life, not how quick we can I get through this lock and on to the next pub, is it not about helping each other?