single handling locks

[billS]

They are not rules they are flawed guidelines so.....no, I wont.

 

 

Could you cite the relevant legislation please?

 

Sorry - I didn't mean "law" to be taken literally. Substitute "the instruction published by the responsibility authority is an ass."

[Tam & Di]

We always close gates because we started life as hirers and that's what we were told we should do. I understand and totally agree with the maths behind leaving them open, but I would feel really worried because most of the boats that follow would just think we were lazy gits. I know I shouldn't care what people think but I do.

 

But what about the one coming in the opposite direction who passes you a bit later and then arrives to find you shut the gates? They might frown and think "silly gits"

[Leonie]

I can see the argument for leaving the gate open, i do get it, but a uniformed approach is fair for everyone, and shutting the gate is etiquette, not yours, you do as you wish bcos you have your theory. I can live with it, I have a nice time anyway, and the selfishness of some small minority of boaters will not bother me.Single handed is a reason for you not wanting to help other people maybe, or maybe thats the reason your single handed lol.

 

To me, you are being selfish by closing the gates when it simply isn't necessary. Please step down from the moral highground you think you are standing on. 'Ettiquette' is no substitute for common sense in my version of the world. People have explained over and over again why they are helping people by leaving gates open. It's not their fault if you aren't processing that.

[carlt]

Sorry - I didn't mean "law" to be taken literally. Substitute "the instruction published by the responsibility authority is an ass."

They are not instructions though.

 

They are guidelines suggesting the way they (erroneously) believe a lock should be operated.

 

Much the same as the Highway Code makes many suggestions about how we should drive and yet very few people follow it to the letter.

 

When guidelines are wrong I do not follow them.

[GSer]

Maybe I'm being thick - but I don't understand what you mean there. Surely if the correct level is maintained by the by-weir, then how would leaving the top gate open prevent the pound from falling to that that level? Do you mean that if the top gates are left open then leakage through the bottom gates will allow the pound will drop below the correct level, and so the correct levels are higher than the bottom gates would dictate if left to do so?

 

 

The by-weirs on most of the leave empty locks are built into the top paddle gear surrounds, IE there are no lock bypass weirs.

Leaving the lock empty with a bottom paddle raised allows excess water to flow through/past the top gates weir and drain into the lock and so the pound below. As soon as the lock is set 'both gates closed all paddles down' or 'top gates open' the bottom gates dictates the level in the pound above, i'm quite glad Carl does his boating well away from here, if he left top gates open in a wish to be helpful to others we would end up with flooded towpaths and/or low pounds i'm sure his method probably works well north of the Thames but the K&A is a different kind of playground at least lockwise.

[jelunga]

I still maintain that closing lock gates as you leave a lock is the right course of action in all cases, EXCEPT

1) You can see a boat approaching to use the lock

2) There are notices saying leave gate open.

 

Posters here suggest they leave gates open to assist other boaters using the lock. Consider this then. You have just left the lock and not closed the top gates. Another boat behind you arrives and then has to close top gates and wait for lock to empty before coming up. Not helpful to leave gates open.

 

You have gone down the lock and left bottom gates open. A little later boat arrives and also wants to go down lock. They have to close gates and wait for lock to fill. Not helpful.

 

If you ensure both gates are closed when you leave and a boat approaches later from either direction there is a good chance the lock will be half full or half empty due to gate leakage. Then all the approaching boat has to do is open appropriate paddles and either fill the other half or totally empty the other half. Results? Time saved and other boat assisted and possibly water saved.

 

Unless anybody can find a flaw in my logic, closing gates on leaving a lock is more helpful to other boaters when you cannot see any and have no idea which durection the next user will come from

 

Sawley flood lock has a notice asking that the red paddles are left up all the time when the gates are in operation. I e a paddle at each end

Edited September 13, 2012 by jelunga

[carlt]

Unless anybody can find a flaw in my logic, closing gates on leaving a lock is more helpful to other boaters when you cannot see any and have no idea which durection the next user will come from

 

Sawley flood lock has a notice asking that the red paddles are left up all the time when the gates are in operation. I e a paddle at each end

People have raised flaws in your logic throughout this thread but you just cannot grasp them.

 

There is no point repeating them.

 

It is also pure common sense that you follow local advice, particularly at a "flood lock".

 

You have just left the lock and not closed the top gates. Another boat behind you arrives and then has to close top gates and wait for lock to empty before coming up. Not helpful to leave gates open.

 

You have gone down the lock and left bottom gates open. A little later boat arrives and also wants to go down lock. They have to close gates and wait for lock to fill. Not helpful.

If the following boats leave the gates open then they have done no extra work but have had to moor up once less often...Helpful.

[GeoffS]

Close gates!!!!

 

I assume you are referring to having only one gate open? When I pull the boat out of a single gate going either up or down I can assure you I don't touch the closed gate.

[Fu Manchu]

 

 

If the following boats leave the gates open then they have done no extra work but have had to moor up once less often...Helpful.

 

O.K. This is a thread about single handing, and in that context Carl is no doubt right.

 

But single handers are a minority. Much more common is a crew of two, one steering and one working the lock. In that case you don't moor up - just get off the boat and go and get the lock ready and the steerer brings it in.

So there is no great saving when the gates are open, but a lot of extra work when the far gates are open, as Jerra pointed out in post 78

[carlt]

So there is no great saving when the gates are open, but a lot of extra work when the far gates are open, as Jerra pointed out in post 78

Seriously, you really think an 80 foot walk is "a lot of extra work" for an able bodied boater? (if we're talking majorities)

[Fu Manchu]

Seriously, you really think an 80 foot walk is "a lot of extra work" for an able bodied boater? (if we're talking majorities)

 

O.K. I accept your point about majorities, but it is at least 2 x 80 feet and often 4 x 80 feet on a typical narrow lock with double bottom gates (unless you jump across, which is another argument!)

[Ange]

But what about the one coming in the opposite direction who passes you a bit later and then arrives to find you shut the gates? They might frown and think "silly gits"

 

Then they must spend a lot of their boating time thinking "silly gits" because rightly or wrongly the vast majority of boaters close the gates after them.

[carlt]

O.K. I accept your point about majorities, but it is at least 2 x 80 feet and often 4 x 80 feet on a typical narrow lock with double bottom gates (unless you jump across, which is another argument!)

So you are talking 320 feet or so.

 

I find that insignificant, or even a pleasant amble, despite being overweight.

[chazzy]

So you are talking 320 feet or so.

 

I find that insignificant, or even a pleasant amble, despite being overweight.

 

if that is in significant to you, to me it doesn't seem such a big deal for you to step of the back of your boat and close the gates as most other people do.

[carlt]

if that is in significant to you, to me it doesn't seem such a big deal for you to step of the back of your boat and close the gates as most other people do.

As the maths is still in my favour but you just don't see it I'll leave you to your methods and I'll stick with mine as we're just going round in circles.

 

 

I'm off to start a new thread "Widebeams use more water than narrowbeams when going through a lock...True or False?"

[WJM]

There is a footbridge near my mooring. In the middle of the bridge is a small gate. The gate has only one purpose. That purpose is not security, or not any of the normal things a gate is used for. It is waist high so a tall person could step over it. It has no lock, just a latch to hold it shut. There is no sign asking people to close it, nobody representing the owner ever comes along to close it. It doesn't have a spring to keep it shut. Yet I watch literally hundreds of people diligently opening and closing it every time they cross the bridge. Many of them are local people who do this opening and closing process over and over again.

 

So why is the gate there? - Legal reasons. It defines a legal boundary and prevents a de facto right of way from being established. To achieve this the gate must simply exist and be capable of being closed. It does not need to actually be closed to serve its purpose, it must simply be readily available to protect the owner's rights.

 

Yet hundreds of people mindlessly open and close it every day. What does this tell us? That most people give very little real thought to what they are doing. The same applies to the closing of lock gates where there is no compelling reason not to leave them open.

Edited September 13, 2012 by WJM

[chazzy]

As the maths is still in my favour but you just don't see it I'll leave you to your methods and I'll stick with mine as we're just going round in circles.

 

 

I'm off to start a new thread "Widebeams use more water than narrowbeams when going through a lock...True or False?"

 

Ha ha that is a trick question, I think it is the displacement rule comes into play there, i'm going to go with false

[Ange]

There is a footbridge near my mooring. In the middle of the bridge is a small gate. The gate has only one purpose. That purpose is not security, or not any of the normal things a gate is used for. It is waist high so a tall person could step over it. It has no lock, just a latch to hold it shut. There is no sign asking people to close it, nobody representing the owner ever comes along to close it. It doesn't have a spring to keep it shut. Yet I watch literally hundreds of people diligently opening and closing it every time they cross the bridge. Many of them are local people who do this opening and closing process over and over again.

 

So why is the gate there? - Legal reasons. It defines a legal boundary and prevents a de facto right of way from being established. To achieve this the gate must simply exist and be capable of being closed. It does not need to actually be closed to serve its purpose, it must simply be readily available to protect the owner's rights.

 

Yet hundreds of people mindlessly open and close it every day. What does this tell us? That most people give very little real thought to what they are doing. The same applies to the closing of lock gates where there is no compelling reason not to leave them open.

 

I'm not so sure about the gate analogy. We do a lot of walking in the countryside on public footpaths and the golden rule is 'leave as you find'. If a gate is open we leave it open, if it's closed we close it after us. So if we walked through the gate you're referring to and found it shut when we arrived, we'd close it after us for that reason. I don't think that's mindless.

[bizzard]

Our dustmen never ever shut the bloomin gate.

[WJM]

I'm not so sure about the gate analogy. We do a lot of walking in the countryside on public footpaths and the golden rule is 'leave as you find'. If a gate is open we leave it open, if it's closed we close it after us. So if we walked through the gate you're referring to and found it shut when we arrived, we'd close it after us for that reason. I don't think that's mindless.

 

 

You have just reinforced what I said. In the countryside you are probably closing gates to prevent livestock from escaping. You have a good reason to close it. I do hope your mind has extended as far as to consider why you are doing it. The gate I am referring to has clearly no purpose other than the legal one. It has open public space on both sides, both sides are easily accessible by several other routes.

Edited September 13, 2012 by WJM

[FadeToScarlet]

O.K. I accept your point about majorities, but it is at least 2 x 80 feet and often 4 x 80 feet on a typical narrow lock with double bottom gates (unless you jump across, which is another argument!)

 

How far away from the gates is the average lock mooring?

 

80' or so?

 

If you're coming in the opposite direction to Carl, he's saved you the 160' walk from the moored boat to the bottom or top gates to open them, then back to the boat.

[Fu Manchu]

How far away from the gates is the average lock mooring?

 

80' or so?

 

If you're coming in the opposite direction to Carl, he's saved you the 160' walk from the moored boat to the bottom or top gates to open them, then back to the boat.

 

No, I don't tie up and I don't go back to the boat so the saving is negligible

[carlt]

Our dustmen never ever shut the bloomin gate.

Your binmen go through a gate?

 

We have to drag our bins to the road.

 

Pretty soon I think I'll have to tip the bins into the wagon myself while the OH makes the binmen tea and cakes.

Edited September 13, 2012 by carlt

[cl@rkey]

No, I don't tie up and I don't go back to the boat so the saving is negligible

So you do admit there is a saving? (however negligible)

 

I must admit, this thread has taken me by surprise! I had it in my mind that you should always close the gates on exiting. Now I'm not so sure!

 

For now, I think I'll just heed any notices until I'm familiar with a waterway.

[bizzard]

Your binmen go through a gate?

 

We have to drag our bins to the road.

 

Pretty soon I think I'll have to tip the bins into the wagon myself while the OH makes the binmen tea and cakes.

No i'm talking of years ago when bin men worked hard, not just chucking black plastic bags about, there weren't any anyway. People rarely put their heavy metal dustbins out in the street, looked bad and was thought to be scruffy behavior, could stink badly too. The dustmen would if nec go around the side to the back of the house for it as most people kept it near the back door. The binman then swung it up onto his back and away to empty it in the cart ''not automatic in those days but hand rake leveled'', the empty bin was then returned to its original position and all gates closed. And woe betide a binman that dropped any rubbish and left it or didn't close a gate as it was almost always immediately reported by phone to the counsil by the houswife.