12 volt sockets and plugs, are they mandatory?

[pedroinlondon]

I've just received a bunch of 12 volt sockets and plugs for my boat. They look and feel flimsy and way smaller than their 220v equivalents. Basically, they look like kids toys. Does one have to use them or is one free to use regular 220 v sockets for the 12 v wiring and just label them so to avoid confusion/accidents? What are the bw requirements?

I would post a photo of them but cannot figure out how! They're about 25mm by 25mm.

Thanks

Edited July 19, 2012 by pedroinlondon

[Chalky]

The 12V ones are flimsy. It's common to use the older round pin 5A and 15A plugs and sockets for 12V to avoid confusion and potential problems (pun!).

[matty40s]

Nowadays, I am seeing more boats with cigarette lighter sockets installed instead of plugs/sockets. It is easier to get 12V kit with a car/lorry charger and simple to step up a 12v to 19V to charge a laptop. Just make sure there is a reasonable thickness of wire to the socket.

[Chertsey]

My understanding is that in some ways 12v switches and contacts have to be tougher in order to cope with the DC. We used 240v light switches in a previous boat with no problems but were told they might wear out.

 

As for sockets, I have no idea what the rules say but I would be very worried if it were possible to plug a 12v appliance into a 240v socket. I can't believe it's allowed!

[GUMPY]

I'm sitting her with my head in my hands trying to work out how someone could be so stupid as to even contemplate using 230v sockets for 12v.

[Ex- Member]

I've just received a bunch of 12 volt sockets and plugs for my boat. They look and feel flimsy and way smaller than their 220v equivalents. Basically, they look like kids toys. Does one have to use them or is one free to use regular 220 v sockets for the 12 v wiring and just label them so to avoid confusion/accidents? What are the bw requirements?

I would post a photo of them but cannot figure out how! They're about 25mm by 25mm.

Thanks

 

We use DIN plugs and sockets for 12 volt, similar to cigarette lighter sockets but much sturdier and nice tight fit. Cigarette lighter sockets are rubbish leave well alone.

 

http://www.the12voltshop.co.uk/Shop/plugs-switches-sockets-and-adaptors/12v-plugs-and-sockets-auto-/

 

The Din sockets also come in various different type fittings so you can use them differently for different situations. We solder the wires to the plugs and sockets. We have used standard 240 volt switches used for all 12 volt lighting for 8 years now and never had a problem, I've not heard of any failing either.

 

If you go for din sockets, shop around as prices vary greatly.

 

 

 

[Chertsey]

I'm sitting her with my head in my hands trying to work out how someone could be so stupid as to even contemplate using 230v sockets for 12v.

It's the plugs that worry me.

[OldGoat]

I'm sitting her with my head in my hands trying to work out how someone could be so stupid as to even contemplate using 230v sockets for 12v.

 

 

On the face of it I suppose you're right.

However, given that all new mains equipment come supplied with a moulded plug AND

supplies of 5amp plugs and sockets are more difficult to source, then it's not so daft as it might seem.

 

When I built my boat I fitted lots of 13amp mains sockets and loads of 5amp switch sockets as well not only that but I put 12 and 24 volt supplies in each socket as well.

That puts me completely beyond the pail with you?

 

But then I didn't build it for others to use.

There are no enforceable standards for private boat use, so that's not an issue either.

[bizzard]

To prevent mistakes the top earth slot in the socket could be blocked off for 12v use with Epoxy putty or a bit of P38 body,filler. A mains 3 pin plug would not enter then.

[Chertsey]

On the face of it I suppose you're right.

However, given that all new mains equipment come supplied with a moulded plug AND

supplies of 5amp plugs and sockets are more difficult to source, then it's not so daft as it might seem.

 

When I built my boat I fitted lots of 13amp mains sockets and loads of 5amp switch sockets as well not only that but I put 12 and 24 volt supplies in each socket as well.

That puts me completely beyond the pail with you?

 

But then I didn't build it for others to use.

There are no enforceable standards for private boat use, so that's not an issue either.

The worrying thing is when you take an appliance from the boat back to the house.

 

To prevent mistakes the top earth slot in the socket could be blocked off for 12v use with Epoxy putty or a bit of P38 body,filler. A mains 3 pin plug would not enter then.

And perhaps more importantly remove the earth pin from the plug. But why go to all that trouble just to use the wrong equipment for the job. Just get some better quality 12v gear.

[Ex- Member]

To prevent mistakes the top earth slot in the socket could be blocked off for 12v use with Epoxy putty or a bit of P38 body,filler. A mains 3 pin plug would not enter then.

 

Y

The top pin though when entered releases access to live and neg pins, you can't plug into a 3 pin socket without the main centre pin being inserted first. This protection was added yonks ago so kids little fingers cant access the live and neg holes.

 

 

[Paul C]

5A plugs and sockets are easily available.

[ditchcrawler]

I'm sitting her with my head in my hands trying to work out how someone could be so stupid as to even contemplate using 230v sockets for 12v.

An awful lot do, especially round pin 5 amp. I know of one that used 13A.

 

On the face of it I suppose you're right.

However, given that all new mains equipment come supplied with a moulded plug AND

supplies of 5amp plugs and sockets are more difficult to source, then it's not so daft as it might seem.

 

If you think 5 amp sockets and plugs are hard to come by then click here

[bizzard]

Y

The top pin though when entered releases access to live and neg pins, you can't plug into a 3 pin socket without the main centre pin being inserted first. This protection was added yonks ago so kids little fingers cant access the live and neg holes.

Yes of course. When we ran out of plugs at home we'd poke that clear with a Lolly stick then poke the bare L&N wires in their slots and then withdrew the lolly stick to trap them. A bit of would stuffed in first to trip that out and then filled over.

[Mat B]

I have started using these Power Con plugs for 12V connections. Much more robust than cigar lighters, and rated at 20A

 

The socket fits in the same hole as a cigar lighter, they are available from Maplins.

 

They are designed for mains, but there is little chance of taking your 12V appliances to any place where they are used at that voltage.

 

 

m@

Edited July 19, 2012 by Mat B

[Ex- Member]

Yes of course. When we ran out of plugs at home we'd poke that clear with a Lolly stick then poke the bare L&N wires in their slots and then withdrew the lolly stick to trap them. A bit of would stuffed in first to trip that out and then filled over.

 

I must admit to doing similar quite a few times usually due to standing on a plug, breaking the main pin then not being able to insert, Ive even shoved in the broken pin and followed it with the remaining 2 pin plug

 

Blimey the amount of times I should have died or been seriously injured messing around with electrics must be well over a cat's nine lives

 

 

[GUMPY]

5A plugs and sockets are easily available.

Yes and they are still used in many installations for 230v lighting circuits so could still present a danger if the unit was taken off the boat, just because someone has not seen them in use for a while doesn't mean that they are not in use.

I have been through many permutations over the years and now use HD cig lighter sockets and plugs for 12v. The main thing to consider is not to use any high power 12v equipment then cig lighter sockets and plugs are fine, if you need high power then make sure it is hard wired and not pluggable.

[bizzard]

I must admit to doing similar quite a few times usually due to standing on a plug, breaking the main pin then not being able to insert, Ive even shoved in the broken pin and followed it with the remaining 2 pin plug

 

Blimey the amount of times I should have died or been seriously injured messing around with electrics must be well over a cat's nine lives

Tell me about it. My model railway transformer was always plugged in by the bare wires and lolly stick method. Or if there was another appliance with a plug on it we would wind long bare wires around its pins and shove it in, saved buying a double adapter too.

[GUMPY]

I have started using these Power Con plugs for 12V connections. Much more robust than cigar lighters, and rated at 20A

 

The socket fits in the same hole as a cigar lighter, they are available from Maplins.

 

They are designed for mains, but there is little chance of taking your 12V appliances to any place where they are used at that voltage.

 

Not if you come into my world there isn't, most professional audio and lighting equipment uses those, again its a bloody stupid idea to use mains connectors for 12v

Sorry if I appear to be being a bit blunt but anyone that does this is asking to kill themselves or worse someone else.

Edited July 19, 2012 by idleness

[Graham Davis]

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/150853373571?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla

 

These are the types of plugs now used in nearly all European caravans and campers, and I certainly wouldn't describe them as being flimsy.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Graham Davis

[David Mack]

again its a bloody stupid idea to use mains connectors for 230v.

I don't think you meant to write that!!

Edited July 19, 2012 by David Mack

[GUMPY]

I don't think you meant to write that!!

no your right

[pedroinlondon]

To prevent mistakes the top earth slot in the socket could be blocked off for 12v use with Epoxy putty or a bit of P38 body,filler. A mains 3 pin plug would not enter then.

 

That sounds reasonable and easy to do. But is it legal?

 

An awful lot do, especially round pin 5 amp. I know of one that used 13A.

 

 

If you think 5 amp sockets and plugs are hard to come by then click here

 

Thanks for that. I think I'll ebay (is "to ebay" a verb yet?) these stupid camping sockets and plugs and get some of those funky round ones. Great.

 

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/150853373571?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla

 

These are the types of plugs now used in nearly all European caravans and campers, and I certainly wouldn't describe them as being flimsy.

 

They certainly look like the ones I got. It's difficult to be sure as there is no info on the dimentions of it.

I got these http://www.towsure.com/product/2_Pin_12_Volt_Caravan_Power_Socket and they suck!

Edited July 19, 2012 by pedroinlondon

[BlueStringPudding]

I've installed these in my boat. Yes they're cigarette lighter sockets but they're sturdier than any other I've used. The plugs never feel loose or fall out and they almost click into place.

 

Waterproof Surface Mounted 12v Socket

Edited July 19, 2012 by BlueStringPudding

[Arthur Brown]

The automotive 12v sockets are ubiquitous, and every 12v appliance for a car comes fitted with one, but the sockets are a poor and unreliable fit.

 

The two pole 12v connector from the camper/caravan market is more robust but you will have to change every car fitting that you buy to this connector.

 

For Mains (and inverter!) you should only use a mains rated system and 13A does seem logical.

 

Using another system for 12v would work, 5A or 15a comes to mind, I also have some kit that uses XLR4 with two pins for 12v.