"Dover"

[Guest]

Ditto Mike there used to be a site that I'm sure came up under a google of 'Narrowboat Dover' - seems to have gone walkabout

 

fair point, my phrasing is poor. What always suprises me when this topic comes up is the intensity of the rections to what is essentialy someones else taste/choices/boat

 

I think the intensity of feeling on this particular subject is related to the fact that they essentially ruined a piece of waterways history.

 

If it had been done in a more sympathetic way it may have garnered more positive comments when in essence what they did was fill it with such a contemporary design so out of kilter with the boats origins and history that it was bound to attract criticism. They also stuffed it to the gunwales with so much high tech kit that was so out of step with the boats original concept.

 

I also don't believe it was done to anyone's particular tastes as such but rather to showcase the products of the various program contributors...

[alan_fincher]

"Dover" is actually much more "reversible" than many, as the basic structure of the hull, (albeit with BW modifications, apparently ?), survives, presumably nearly as unscathed as many, (one thing that amuses me is that despite it's price tag, it is a very "unstraight" one!....).

 

To me the back cabin that has gone on looks strangely wrong, despite it apparently being their second attempt to get the shape right.

 

But it is close enough that many people wouldn't know, I think, and anyway can always be altered, (the original would have course been wood, not steel, anyway - a common compromise these days that only real purists tend to get upset about.

 

All the "greenhouse" bit at the front must be easily removable, as it is mostly timber and glass.

 

Whether there will ever be a will to strip the expensive "innards" out of this boat, and scrap the top, who can possibly say ?

 

All I can say is that less likely things have happened, and I wouldn't rule out anything.

 

I don't actually have an issue with "under cloth" conversions, or indeed full cabin conversions, on boats where they already have them. I actually think there are not enough enthusiastic individual or groups (or the funds) to put every full length carrying boat surviving back into full working trim. Great though they are, (and I love them!), 70 foot of boat to provide 8 foot of living space isn't something that everybody aspires to - even many with a true passion for "old boats".

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I can say with almost certain knowledge of no contradiction..........

 

Maybe...........

 

Maybe not.........

 

 

 

 

 

....... coat!

 

At least you avoided saying Dover soled!

 

..... can I have the coat when you have finished with it.

[alan_fincher]

At least you avoided saying Dover soled!

 

..... can I have the coat when you have finished with it.

Is that the same as "Dover re-footed", which the implication seems to be the minimum that has recently been required for it?

 

(Keep passing that caot on, please.......)

[WotEver]

As much as anything else, I wanted to see what had been done to her...

Here's the luxurious saloon.

 

[Guest]

Perhaps I should be less critical - I've just realised that table looks very much like the one we got for 'The Dog House' for £20 off eBay....

[WotEver]

A couple more tiny images within this picture:

 

 

You can even buy the DVDs of the restoration if you really really want to.

 

Join master craftsman Alan Herd as he journeys around the canals and waterways of Britain in search of surviving examples of the boatbuilding craft - and restores an old 70 foot working boat into a state of the art floating holiday home.

 

Narrow Boat celebrates the enchanting industrial past of Britain's canals - and also looks to the future as Alan fulfils a life-long ambition by painstakingly converting an 80 year old traditional working boat into a truly 21st Century luxury vessel.

By design, the boat Alan is converting will maintain its authentic 1930s look. Step below decks however, and the boat will offer the ultimate in cruising luxury, with hardwood used throughout, a state of the art audio visual system, leather upholstery, stunning bathroom and luxurious bedroom.

 

Narrow Boat follows Alan through the transformation process and then on to the IWA National boat show in a bid to win first prize for his efforts!

 

4 hours of viewing for a tenner.

 

Tony

[churchward]

"Dover" is actually much more "reversible" than many, as the basic structure of the hull, (albeit with BW modifications, apparently ?), survives, presumably nearly as unscathed as many, (one thing that amuses me is that despite it's price tag, it is a very "unstraight" one!....).

 

To me the back cabin that has gone on looks strangely wrong, despite it apparently being their second attempt to get the shape right.

 

But it is close enough that many people wouldn't know, I think, and anyway can always be altered, (the original would have course been wood, not steel, anyway - a common compromise these days that only real purists tend to get upset about.

 

All the "greenhouse" bit at the front must be easily removable, as it is mostly timber and glass.

 

Whether there will ever be a will to strip the expensive "innards" out of this boat, and scrap the top, who can possibly say ?

 

All I can say is that less likely things have happened, and I wouldn't rule out anything.

 

I don't actually have an issue with "under cloth" conversions, or indeed full cabin conversions, on boats where they already have them. I actually think there are not enough enthusiastic individual or groups (or the funds) to put every full length carrying boat surviving back into full working trim. Great though they are, (and I love them!), 70 foot of boat to provide 8 foot of living space isn't something that everybody aspires to - even many with a true passion for "old boats".

 

From what I remember of the program when they were fitting Dover out I think you are right the conversion would be reversible. The whole under cloth piece could be unbolted and the fit-out removed. Even the floor as I recall was made in sections to fit into the existing hull floor bearers, knees etc. and so could be removed to reveal the original hull condition. The back cabin is a separate unit to the under cover piece so would take little or no work. I except the shape may be wrong but it is not far off to my eye.

 

So in short the "heritage" side of the boat is not that compromised no more I think than the majority of other conversions certainly. The inclusion of all the gadget and gizmo's they crammed into it and the modern style interior design is another matter and certainly not to my taste. Sadly I am not sure you would get much for the technology 2nd hand.

 

I don't mind the under cloth and the wooden frame. If I bought it as say a live aboard boat I would keep all that and refit the interior in a more a way that was more traditional and sympathetic to the boat.

 

I don't know if it is for sale still. The last time I was in Braunston (a couple of weeks ago) it was still on the hard standing for sure.

[Old Son]

"Dover" is actually much more "reversible" than many, as the basic structure of the hull, (albeit with BW modifications, apparently ?), survives, presumably nearly as unscathed as many,

 

That was my point. It is back on the water being used. Maybe not looking like she did but nonetheless she is back. Who knows, sometime in the future the digusting fitout will be removed and she will be converted back to her former glory.

 

I find it really strange that some would sooner see an old boat left to rust rather than be converted for leisure (good or bad)and back in the water.

[Athy]

Thanks for the info - I now remember that I have read about this conversion before.

I would not want it, but why such an outcry? Every year, old stone farmhouses are renovated and given luxurious modern interiors, but I don't hear many raised voices denouncing that practice as "disgusting".

[alan_fincher]

I find it really strange that some would sooner see an old boat left to rust rather than be converted for leisure (good or bad)and back in the water.

Then I guess after all we broadly agree!

 

I often wonder which is worst, to be honest - out of water, or in the water.

 

(Yes, obviously this depends on a whole series of factors - if they already have holes in the bottom, they are probably better out - the rain will then drain out naturally!)

 

There are at least two pairs of unconverted Grand Union boats, and at lest a couple more converted lying unloved on my main canal, (all kept afloat, I'll freely admit - not sinkers).

 

Yes, obviously they will never likely be lost for ever, but it is always a shame to see, particularly when one hears of people trying to source an affordable boat to restore.

[nicknorman]

I think the intensity of feeling on this particular subject is related to the fact that they essentially ruined a piece of waterways history.

 

If it had been done in a more sympathetic way it may have garnered more positive comments when in essence what they did was fill it with such a contemporary design so out of kilter with the boats origins and history that it was bound to attract criticism. They also stuffed it to the gunwales with so much high tech kit that was so out of step with the boats original concept.

 

In the case of the renovation of historic buildings, isn't it normal to clearly distinguish between the original stuff and the new stuff, thereby making it an honest renovation to be put to a different use, rather than faking the old fashioned look where the difference between the original and the new is blurred.

 

Surely it is the same for a historic working boat to be used for leisure purposes? Keep the hull original (since it is), the paint scheme etc and everything else should be clearly modern - to do it any other way it to tell a lie ie pretending there were leisure narrow boats in existance when this one was born.

 

Now if only it had a better bow...

[FadeToScarlet]

I'd have it, but only after paying someone to take a woodsaw to the topplank and make it a better shape.

[David Mack]

If you dont like it, dont buy it ...

 

Exactly! It was for sale for a loooooooong time, and nobody bought it. So presumably nobody did like it - or at least not at that price!

 

David

[Timleech]

A couple more tiny images within this picture:

 

 

 

Tony

 

I hadn't seen the boat for a while, before the project was started, but knowing the then owners I'm absolutely certain that it wasn't 'abandoned'.

 

Tim

[stagedamager]

You could be right - I thought the trip down the GU was 'Alan Herd - Water boatman' and he went further afield in Narrowboat afloat or maybe it was the other way around...

 

"Water Boatman" was Alan Herd's Hitchhike roound the Stourport ring, whereas "Narrowboat Afloat" was indeed the trip down the GU stoppping at various GU hotspots as Coventry and Luton, but also Frogmore paper mill, Aston Martin, and Jem Bates' yard at Puttenham, where there are some nice shots of 'Judith Ann' on the bank before restoration commences, and some shots of my parent's tug tied up there!!!!

Regards,

 

Dan

[Martin Megson]

Actually I was far more interested in the "does anyone know its current status" question, than in re-igniting the debate about this "Marmite" boat.

 

But, as has been said, discussion forums can wander where they will ........

 

(Has it sold, or been withdrawn from sale ? - Anybody know ?.... )

 

I can confirm Dover was moored at Braunston today. It wasn't in the sales area and had no sign indicating it was for sale.

 

And yes the Marina is frozen!!

 

Edited December 10, 2011 by Martin Megson

[Starcoaster]

Sorry, I totally forgot to update about this.

I asked Tim today, and he said the guy who owns Dover is currently keeping it.

And yes, frozen in parts of the marina. I was feeding the ducks just for the entertainment value of watching them icebreaking!

[Martin Megson]

Sorry, I totally forgot to update about this.

I asked Tim today, and he said the guy who owns Dover is currently keeping it.

And yes, frozen in parts of the marina. I was feeding the ducks just for the entertainment value of watching them icebreaking!

 

It was certainly a bit nippy. I opened the curtain to see a duck walking past!

[Laurence Hogg]

Dover evolved but in my opinion not in a manner I liked. It would have been better to preserve it with the "Hideeous tea house" as an example of what happened to them than try to turn it into a 21st century reflection of the original. Our own boat is less than 40%ish original and has evolved as a work boat, also never having been out of service. What suprises me is the number of offers to buy it and "restore" it! Restoring a boat like "Barnet" is a very expensive option but people seem to want to do it. Its some of the unrestored boats eg Renton, Ling etc which if left as they are will become the rarities in the near future. Many "restored" baots now bear no resemblance to the original "as new" condition, most are simply too shiny and too perfect, look for a shiny boat cabin in archive pictures and you will be looking a long time.

[station tug]

Dover evolved but in my opinion not in a manner I liked. It would have been better to preserve it with the "Hideeous tea house" as an example of what happened to them than try to turn it into a 21st century reflection of the original. Our own boat is less than 40%ish original and has evolved as a work boat, also never having been out of service. What suprises me is the number of offers to buy it and "restore" it! Restoring a boat like "Barnet" is a very expensive option but people seem to want to do it. Its some of the unrestored boats eg Renton, Ling etc which if left as they are will become the rarities in the near future. Many "restored" baots now bear no resemblance to the original "as new" condition, most are simply too shiny and too perfect, look for a shiny boat cabin in archive pictures and you will be looking a long time.

 

iv had this argument a few times as regards perfectly straight hull's.....well said,,,

 

Dover evolved but in my opinion not in a manner I liked. It would have been better to preserve it with the "Hideeous tea house" as an example of what happened to them than try to turn it into a 21st century reflection of the original. Our own boat is less than 40%ish original and has evolved as a work boat, also never having been out of service. What suprises me is the number of offers to buy it and "restore" it! Restoring a boat like "Barnet" is a very expensive option but people seem to want to do it. Its some of the unrestored boats eg Renton, Ling etc which if left as they are will become the rarities in the near future. Many "restored" baots now bear no resemblance to the original "as new" condition, most are simply too shiny and too perfect, look for a shiny boat cabin in archive pictures and you will be looking a long time.

 

iv had this argument a few times as regards perfectly straight hull's.....well said,,,

[scrumpylurcher]

Sorry, I totally forgot to update about this.

I asked Tim today, and he said the guy who owns Dover is currently keeping it.

 

 

Also several thousaand pounds lighter, having paid Dave Harris to carry out a major replate. To quote Tim, "there were concerens that it wouldnt survive being craned out for the repairs"

Edited December 11, 2011 by scrumpylurcher

[Tim Lewis]

Also several thousaand pounds lighter, having paid Dave Harris to carry out a major replate. To quote Tim, "there were concerens that it wouldnt survive being craned out for the repairs"

 

Taken end Oct:

 

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

Taken end Oct:

 

 

Tim

Hard to know exactly what is going on there, but to my untrained eye it doesn't look that great, even if it is a perfectly acceptable "fix".

 

Seems almost to be plating on top of plating, (but maybe not).

 

What is surely the case is that unless it is well ballasted some of that higher stuff is going to be quite visible, and rather spoil the "old riveted boat" look, isn't it ?

 

Not doubting Mr Harris' abilities - I'm sure he has done what he needs to do, but I would welcome the views of professionals as to quite what we are now looking at, and how "standard" a repair it is for this type of boat.

 

Does seem to make a mockery of a £90K "before" price tag though, if much of that work is new!

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

Not sure if it is an optical illusion, but looking at the gunwale line, or the top guard, doesn't the boat actually even look a bit hogged ?

Edited December 11, 2011 by alan_fincher

[stagedamager]

I agree Alan, it does appear to be.

It also seems to be the biggest example of "Trigger's Broom" i've seen so far!!!

 

Dan