g.u wideboat progress

[alan_fincher]

Anyway here's some pictures of new bottom boards,a big pile of oak and the first of the side planks.

Many thanks to Mike Constable at Stoke Bruerne for his archive help.

 

Chris,

 

Nothing has cheered me up on the forum today as much as that image.

 

I regularly remember seeing "Progress" make forays up the GU, perhaps nearly 40 years ago, and to be honest kind of assumed it was something I was never likely too witness ever again.

 

I can now really start to imagine seeing this boat on its travels once more, and I really look forward to the day when it does.

 

Marvellous stuff please keep posting updates regularly!

[xadmx]

any chance you could tell me a bit more about whats going on in the pictures, whats with the supports in pic 3.

thanks adam

[Speedwheel]

Fantastic stuff. Ready for Braunston next year then

[IanM]

the forum won't let me upload from flickr -any hints?

 

 

 

On the photo's page in Flickr;

 

• 
   
  
• Choose Share,
  
• Grab The HTML/BBCode,
  
• Select the picture size you want to post,
  
• Make sure BBCode is selected
  
• Copy and paste the code in the box into the post on the forum
  

 

 

 

(yes the choice of picture to demonstrate on was deliberate )

[greywolf]

great photo's.seeing pictures of a reconstruction certainly helps illuminate my reading on the subject in some ways they are clearer than diagrams. Thank you for the updates.

Edited December 14, 2011 by greywolf

[Tam & Di]

Anyway here's some pictures of new bottom boards,a big pile of oak and the first of the side planks.

Many thanks to Mike Constable at Stoke Bruerne for his archive help.

 

Seeing that reminded me that she was built back to front, in that the green oak shearing was put on the inside of the planking before the iron knees were fitted. She also had very wide bottom boards - difficult to get the elm for it now, I imagine. I'm glad all we had to do was replace waterline planking. It felt very weird burning the old timbers on the range afterwards - sort of auto-cannibalistic somehow.

 

I'm very involved writing a second edition of the RYA book of European Regs just now, but once I've finished that we'll still be in the UK and I'll see if I can turn up any other photos of Progress.

[AMModels]

Hi Chris, lovely to see the condition of Mimas now, IIRC I recall seeing her a fair few years ago and she had a decent amount of greenery growing from her seams and crumbly dust everywhere.

[chris collins]

first off, many, many thanks for all the goodwill messages,very much appreciated, secondly, thanks for the advert block / flickr instructions;given the choice I'd go for the service with the least intrusive adverts.Having said that I haven't taken any photo's this week - it's just been cold/wet/uncomfortable/unphotogenic spiking up the bottom boards/sideplanks

Adam, I'm (kind of) trying to avoid putting captions on the photo's - trying to avoid the dilema of how much information is the right amount, trying to avoid the situation where I can't post the photo's as I can't find the time to write the captions, however I do appreciate your interest so by all means ask the questions and I'll do my best to answer. The supports in the third picture are just keeping the bottom boards centralised in the dock,the dock is a floating dock so no plumb bob's or spirit levels so it becomes quite important to have some fixed and accurate datum's to work to.

Tam, as a man in need best I'm patient,I doubt I'll get as far as the deck by tea time anyway.I'm in awe of auto-cannibalistic - very thought provoking.

[Dovetail]

Great photos thanks for that I can smell the Oak through my computer screen just by looking at them.

 

I will look forward to the progress you post on the forum.

[fuzzyduck]

until today, I could never get excited about carrying boats, i'm more of a fan of Tugs like Kennet.

 

But Wow!!

 

I shall be watching this thread closely in the future.

[Guest leeparkinson]

good luck with your restoration you have got your work cut out but will be very worth it when completed

[chris collins]

Having had a break at christmas there is no great changes to the apearance of “Progress” however I'd like to keep the thread fairly prominent as I'm still in need of as much photographic evidence as possible, please don't think that something previously published in a book or magazine is of no use, it may well be that I haven't seen it. It would be super to put a whole catalogue of pictures in one place. Anyway I thought I might take a more detailed look at the process of spiking the bottom boards in the hope that it's helpful to anybody else in the same boat/barge/rock/hardplace.

 

Bottom spikes, the one on the left is an original found at Walker Bros shortly after they closed. After trying various copies including forging my own I now use these, supplied by; B.B. Price of Halesowen I think the number is 01384 413341. They now cost around £1.60 each minimum order 500. They are 11 incheslong by 3/8 square.

SPA50069 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

I have been using this jig to get the bottom strake at the correct width and angle along the straight section of the boat, the bottom strake is angled at 45 degrees which makes for a lovely wide plank land that, well planed should seal marvellously but will be prone to slippage during assembly so jig plus plenty of cramps.

 

SPA50070 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Just more of the same.

SPA50072 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Counterbores for the spike heads,in this instance bored before the rest of the pilot hole.

SPA50073 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Nice cramp, I got this one from Walkers so it's a lot more experienced than I am.

SPA50074 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

The wooden bit behind the drill is a jig that cramps on to bottom strake, it helps to get the pilot hole nicely centred in the bottom strake. The drill is the diameter as the spike is square ie; 3/8 inch.

SPA50076 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

To make driving the spikes a little easier I lubricate them with a little grease, a modified grease gun helps lubricate the holes.

SPA50077 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Having sacrificed my knees,back and a finger to the gods of (wet)dry docks and wooden boats I am trying to look after the elbows. Given that there are spikes at five(ish) inch centres along both sides of the boat that all need driving in not the best of positions I built this jig to press the b*****ds in. If your replacing the bottoms on an otherwise complete boat they will normally press up against the weight of the boat, just be sure that you get the base angle of the jack correct.

SPA50079 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Don't forget a nice little oakum grommet before driving fully home.

SPA50080 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

An out side view of the press for the spikes.

SPA50081 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

Lets hope for bit more action in the coming weeks and please send those pictures in!

[hamsterfan]

fantastic pictures thanks for sharing.

[billh]

fantastic pictures thanks for sharing.

Yes , really good stuff. I am amazed that BB Price are still in business, we bought spikes like that from them 35 years ago, good news that! I am surprised that jacking the spikes in works- we used a Kango demolition hammer with a modified tool fitted. A rather similar jig to yours though to ensure alignment of the pilot hole, 5/16 in on the first boat, later changed to an easier 3/8in. Holding the Kango up for something over 200 spikes in a narrowboat is a little tiring.Also , if I remember correctly the spikes were 14 inch and the ends knocked over into cut slots in the top of the plank, this ensures that the bottom boards can't come loose , but also makes it very difficult (impossible actually) to remove the spikes when the bottoms need replacing.

You have a fair old length of caulking to do on those bottom seams as well, working from below too, I don't envy you.

 

Bill

[midsnick]

Very nice to see the technical aspects of restoration and methods used.

 

Thank you sir for sharing your craftsmanship.

[Timleech]

Yes , really good stuff. I am amazed that BB Price are still in business, we bought spikes like that from them 35 years ago, good news that! I am surprised that jacking the spikes in works- we used a Kango demolition hammer with a modified tool fitted. A rather similar jig to yours though to ensure alignment of the pilot hole, 5/16 in on the first boat, later changed to an easier 3/8in. Holding the Kango up for something over 200 spikes in a narrowboat is a little tiring.Also , if I remember correctly the spikes were 14 inch and the ends knocked over into cut slots in the top of the plank, this ensures that the bottom boards can't come loose , but also makes it very difficult (impossible actually) to remove the spikes when the bottoms need replacing.

You have a fair old length of caulking to do on those bottom seams as well, working from below too, I don't envy you.

 

Bill

 

Would you really attempt to remove old spikes when renewing bottom boards? I should think it seriously impractical in most cases.

We always cut them off flush, & put a chalk mark on the bottom strake to show where not to drill for the new ones.

 

Some boats had the bottoms spiked right through the bottom strake & then rivetted over with roves.

 

I would expect a rivetting hammer (proper long stroke air tool) to be more effective than a Kango, & maybe a bit lighter. Gave up spiking bottoms up long before I had the opportunity to experiment, though.

 

Tim

Edited January 7, 2012 by Timleech

[chris collins]

Nice to hear from people that have got the Tshirt, good to set out the choices - not forgetting a strong arm and a good hammer. I guess we tend to use what's handy at the time.

I have come across the clenched bottom spikes as Bill describes in the past, not on Walkers or Bushells boats and memory escapes me which boat it was, I had presumed that it was done to counter elms predilection for cupping and warping either before fitting or during the build. Clenching would certainly help preserve the integrity of the chine joint.

Bill, pardon my curiosity but when you where doing this it needs an absence of the second strake which infers an extensive rebuild ?

I'm certainly getting good results pressing the spikes in, the cramping action seems to promote a very tight joint.

SPA50083 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

[billh]

Clenching would certainly help preserve the integrity of the chine joint.

Bill, pardon my curiosity but when you where doing this it needs an absence of the second strake which infers an extensive rebuild ?

 

yes, two extensive rebuilds, the first in 1977/8 the second over a number of years in the 80's. In fact , none of original timber , with the exception of the motor's sternpost was re-used. I'm not going into any argument about the boats being replicas or restorations. The first boat is now 33years old (or 156 depending on your view), the elm bottom boards are in good condition, the only wood needing replacement has been the gunnel capping and the hold shutts( which were made from second hand mill flooring in 1978!) . Not bad for a boat that did 20years as a 50 seat passenger boat and more recently carried 20tons of stone. The thinking behind clenching the spikes was that if a heavy object was dropped in the hold it could start the boards down and cause a serious leak- experience has shown that it wasn't necessary.

Tim, yes that's the usual way to replace bottoms, but a mutual acquaintance has a device for pulling spikes out, assuming they aren't clenched over.

Bill

[chris collins]

yes, two extensive rebuilds, the first in 1977/8 the second over a number of years in the 80's. In fact , none of original timber , with the exception of the motor's sternpost was re-used. I'm not going into any argument about the boats being replicas or restorations. The first boat is now 33years old (or 156 depending on your view), the elm bottom boards are in good condition, the only wood needing replacement has been the gunnel capping and the hold shutts( which were made from second hand mill flooring in 1978!) . Not bad for a boat that did 20years as a 50 seat passenger boat and more recently carried 20tons of stone. The thinking behind clenching the spikes was that if a heavy object was dropped in the hold it could start the boards down and cause a serious leak- experience has shown that it wasn't necessary.

Tim, yes that's the usual way to replace bottoms, but a mutual acquaintance has a device for pulling spikes out, assuming they aren't clenched over.

Bill

Nice to hear that the rebuilds are lasting well Bill, sounds like good timber selection,good craftsmanship and good practises, well done. It is an interesting process watching your work age, having missed out on the age when generations of the same family would persue the same occupations our experience becomes hard won, Bill your 33years of experience and hindsight is a great assett, hopefully we'll meet one day and chat all things wooden boats.

I'm convinced that a wooden boat that is used daily like the trip boat that Bill describes is at a huge advantage in the longevity stakes when compared with a museum exhibit that spends a lot of time shut up at its moorings,even worse clothed up and shut up at its moorings, the air flow through a moving boat is, in my humble opinion,hugely beneficial in clearing the moisture saturated air that promotes fungal growth.

Unfortunately I haven't yet rebuilt a boat that is likely to be used daily, if I start one tomorrow I'll be 88 in 33years time.

Any other wooden boatbuilders want to share experiences/hindsight?

[Pluto]

The thinking behind clenching the spikes was that if a heavy object was dropped in the hold it could start the boards down and cause a serious leak- experience has shown that it wasn't necessary.

Bill

Charlie Atkins told me that when working for the SUC or successors, should you want a few easy days on dock, a quick bash to a bottom board would create the leakage required. Once you were booked on dock, a second bash to the kelson would spring the board back up and stop the leak, allowing a good night's sleep without pumping prior to docking. I think that some wooden bottoms had wooden pegs between bottom boards to stop them from springing in this way.

[Timleech]

Charlie Atkins told me that when working for the SUC or successors, should you want a few easy days on dock, a quick bash to a bottom board would create the leakage required. Once you were booked on dock, a second bash to the kelson would spring the board back up and stop the leak, allowing a good night's sleep without pumping prior to docking. I think that some wooden bottoms had wooden pegs between bottom boards to stop them from springing in this way.

 

I think the Grand Union composite boats had steel dowels between bottom boards when built. A few boats (edit - that's not meant to imply GU boats) had a triple keelson. Another way is to nail between the boards from the top, what some people call a 'ramping nail', which does the same job as a dowel, though I'm not entirely certain whether this is an historical term or one which was invented in the last 40 years.

 

Tim

Edited January 21, 2012 by Timleech

[chris collins]

That's a lovely story about Charlie Atkins, I'd reckon that it's the water pressure acting on the outside that helps push the bottom board back in place, the bang on the kelson probably sets up enough shock to break the “sticktion” to the adjacent boards to allow it to seat. Maybe one day I'll give it a try on one of the boats due for a docking.

Just about all the boats that I have worked on ( including the composite ones) have used “rampers”midway between the kelson and chine, normally a 5inch flat point boat nail driven at an angle across the joint.

To be honest I have never really thought that these lent much in the way of strength (certainly they lent themselves to propagating pockets of rot caused by the moisture collecting in recess for the head), they may give some resistance to any wracking movement athwart the boat, however they are very handy when assembling the boat as they locate the boards during fastening the kelson/bottom strake , they probably help prevent the boards warping during the build aswell.

How about “Progress”, well just to be different it has steel dowels and three kelsons, the dowels occur almost directly below the two outmost kelsons, a hint that their function is not vertical strength?

SPA50088 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

[Theo]

I have had a problem with this facility in the past. It appears that the person you are 'PM'ing has to have made about 5 posts before it will work. This is a common problem with other Forum's I am a member of as well (Car related).

 

It's an attempt to avoid spamming through the pm system. Seems to work, too.

 

Nick

[chris collins]

In 1989 Waterways world published this photograph in an article about Bushell bros, I hope that they won't mind me using it here, I believe that it is part of a collection belonging to the family. The caption refered to the timber being for the kelsons on “Progress” being bought to Tring from Millwall, at the time I must admit I was a bit sceptical, after all “Progress” is 75ft long the centre kelson would need to be 68ft to fit in one piece, surely not? Anyway when we first obtained and deconverted her I had a good look and sure enough no joins!

The picture makes me smile every time I look at it, having transported some long lengths of timber in my time I know how much it bounces when it's got a bit of overhang – that lorry must have had it's wheels off the ground at times! Let alone guiding the overhangs round the bends! It serves to remind how sanitised the H&S regime have turned this country.

It also opens up a myriad of other questions, why go to the trouble of dealing with that load,would it have been cheaper than local oak? Would it have been more effective than local oak?Did G.U specify that timber? What sawmill facilities did Bushells have?

So, back to the present, whilst I normally try to be as faithful as possible to the original construction Baltic pitch pine in that sort of length is only tradeable for rocking horse poo so I'll be doing the kelsons in oak, 2 pieces for the centre and 3 for each side so that I can stagger the joints.

 

progress kelson by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

This is the first piece 36ft long and 9 inches by 5, the stepped scarph is 5ft long.

 

SPA50092 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Fitting is fairly straight forward, although as cut it had a little spring so needed a bit of wedgeing to straighten out, carefully centred and careful not to trap any debris underneath as it's bolted down.

It's noticeable that over time kelsons tend to rot from the top down whilst the interface between kelson and bottom boards, although untreated as original, tends to last longer, often almost appearing as new when dismantled. I'd presume this is to do with the counterbores on the top side acting as moisture traps as the pitch fillers deteriorate,whilst the available oxygen and moisture content being less suitable for fungal growth preserve the underside. Anyway, on this one I have treated both surfaces before fitting,crossed fingers.

 

SPA50096 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

SPA50097 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Sometimes wooden boatbuilding is less romantic than others.

 

SPA50098 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

[carlt]

A few boats (edit - that's not meant to imply GU boats) had a triple keelson.

Umbriel has (had?) a triple keelson though I'm not sure it was original as none of the other little Rickys I've played with had one.